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      08-06-2020, 05:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinesh View Post
Hello everyone,

My Infiniti Q50 lease is ending soon and I'm considering buying a car. I'm looking for something AWD, economical on gas (30+ mpg), less than four years old, and reasonably priced (maybe $18k max).

I've been eyeing subarus, small SUVs and crossovers, and a 2015 320i xDrive. However I'm a bit worried by the cost of BMW upkeep. I've leased a BMW before, and any service was fully covered. I did replace brakes and tires and the price was on the high side but not insane. Would buying a 2015 320i xDrive be a reasonable financial decision? I'm looking for something economical but fun to drive (automatic trans). Or are there better choices?

Just FYI my ideal car would be an AWD Tesla Model 3, but those start at $45K used.
If you can stay within the mileage .... leasing is the way to go imho... $20,000 financed 5 years is approx. $375.... regular 330i is $419 ... no maintenance...no headaches...
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      08-06-2020, 05:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
If you can stay within the mileage .... leasing is the way to go imho... $20,000 financed 5 years is approx. $375.... regular 330i is $419 ... no maintenance...no headaches...
No maintenance no headaches. But you're paying for a car that isn't yours & every mod must be reverted before returning it. & should you choose to buy the car, you've taken the hit for all the depreciation
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      08-06-2020, 06:28 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
On your Q50 lease you are mostly paying for depreciation which runs hundreds of dollars per month. On the 4 year old car you will be buying the car that is also depreciating but likely at a much lower rate than the new Q50. A better financial decision is likely the 4 year old Accord but I think a worse long term decision would be a new BMW lease. As for "reasonable financial decision" you should have money set aside for repairs but impossible for someone here to take the information you gave and say you can or can't afford it. If you don't have money available for repairs you should buy a less expensive (more sensible) option.

People will likely post their positive and negative experiences but not enough information for you to know what is likely to happen.

Comparing buying slightly used to leases you won't come out ahead financially in the long term on leases. They come with almost zero uncertainties (repairs aren't your problem) but guaranteed high depreciation costs.

I will likely buy a 2-4 yr. old BMW as my next daily (at my current mileage rate could be 5 years from now) and take my chances.
Really well put and solid honest advice to me.
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      08-06-2020, 07:09 PM   #48
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No maintenance no headaches. But you're paying for a car that isn't yours & every mod must be reverted before returning it. & should you choose to buy the car, you've taken the hit for all the depreciation
it's a 320i... why mod... Yes I bought my 335i used and got a great deal but I'm modding it... Every car/suv my wife has ever had has been leased... after he buys that car it's going to be almost 10 years old worth nothing by the time it's paid off... leasing = just about the same as buying used but a lot less headache... My car I only put about 1000miles on it a year... so 10 years to my car is no biggy... it's just a toy really... to each their own...

P.s. My wife drives a Volvo XC90 and we absolutely love it... every 3 years we get new suv and it's great... but again to each their own... My next car I might lease it... cars are getting so fast these days almost don't need to mod... simple piggyback on a M340i and your fly'in fast...
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      08-07-2020, 07:43 AM   #49
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My cars have been mostly European - VW's, Audi, BMW, and now a Cadillac (32 years with a Civic and 2 short term company cars in the mix), my wife's have been Honda's and Acura's (20 years). I maintain both exactly the same but the VW's and Audi's were by far more problematic (BMW has been reliable but then I put less than 2k miles a year on it), then when you go to buy the replacement parts you find that European car parts are far more expensive than the U.S./Japanese.

The internet reasoning seems to be that you are paying for superior engineering/manufacturing but if true why am I replacing these parts and not on the Japanese car? Then you buy a European car and if you care about the cost, as soon as the car is out of warranty you take it to one of the many independent shops because dealer parts and labor are so high. Very few independent specialists for the U.S. and Japanese cars as it isn't really needed. Dealership is far more reasonable, parts prices are far less. Bought my Cadillac partly because I expect to keep it until 150k and I expect any expensive repair to be far less than a BMW, so far it has been reliable. The 320 hp pretty basic V-6 can be purchased new for $4400 (https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/auto-p...at/engine-scat, transmission for $2500 (unlikely to ever need it but reassuring and other parts are priced similarly). Would be interesting to see what a 320 hp BMW engine and transmission would cost or even to compare any general parts. Would it be double or triple?

The idea that BMW reliability, repair costs, costs are similar to the Japanese isn't close to being true and I think this BMW forum is the only place where I have ever read someone that said it.
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      08-07-2020, 08:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
If you can stay within the mileage .... leasing is the way to go imho... $20,000 financed 5 years is approx. $375.... regular 330i is $419 ... no maintenance...no headaches...
Looking at current BMW lease specials, the 330i lease of $419 a month requires $4K at signing, then again each time you start another lease (effectively $111 per month x 36 months).

With the used car, at the end of the 5 years he will have a car likely worth $7k at the end of the 3 year lease $0 and he needs to come up with another $4k to start another lease.
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      08-07-2020, 10:57 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
If you can stay within the mileage .... leasing is the way to go imho... $20,000 financed 5 years is approx. $375.... regular 330i is $419 ... no maintenance...no headaches...
Looking at current BMW lease specials, the 330i lease of $419 a month requires $4K at signing, then again each time you start another lease (effectively $111 per month x 36 months).

With the used car, at the end of the 5 years he will have a car likely worth $7k at the end of the 3 year lease $0 and he needs to come up with another $4k to start another lease.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
If you can stay within the mileage .... leasing is the way to go imho... $20,000 financed 5 years is approx. $375.... regular 330i is $419 ... no maintenance...no headaches...
No maintenance no headaches. But you're paying for a car that isn't yours & every mod must be reverted before returning it. & should you choose to buy the car, you've taken the hit for all the depreciation
Same here, paid off is nice, no need to freak out for accidental door dings, shopping carts etc and can still fetch a few grand at Private or Carvana sales. The financial experts say, if your gonna not put alot of miles on her per year, better to purchase a good maybe CPO'd and if possible garage that baby, that is what my situation is. I have a 2013, low miles and looks brand new lol..
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      08-07-2020, 06:50 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Looking at current BMW lease specials, the 330i lease of $419 a month requires $4K at signing, then again each time you start another lease (effectively $111 per month x 36 months).

With the used car, at the end of the 5 years he will have a car likely worth $7k at the end of the 3 year lease $0 and he needs to come up with another $4k to start another lease.
Add extended warranties and maintenance etc... there is not much difference to justify for me to buy used except for what I mentioned before... New car every 3 years is really nice... is usually when you catch the design change also...any dings smaller than a credit card is okay... 6" or shorter on the curb-rash for rims... oil changes included as with other maintenance... we very happy with it.... if your pinching pennies that much... maybe move to NYC and get a monthly subway pass...
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      08-07-2020, 07:43 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
Add extended warranties and maintenance etc... there is not much difference to justify for me to buy used except for what I mentioned before... New car every 3 years is really nice... is usually when you catch the design change also...any dings smaller than a credit card is okay... 6" or shorter on the curb-rash for rims... oil changes included as with other maintenance... we very happy with it.... if your pinching pennies that much... maybe move to NYC and get a monthly subway pass...
To each their own, everyone is in a different situation. Some people drive the hell out of these cars so a lease doesn't suit their situation
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      08-07-2020, 09:59 PM   #54
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Unless there's a common fault for a specific car you're never going to know. Okay, people often berate Alfa for reliability, in the early days I had many Alfa's 3X alfa 156's, two diesel, one petrol, 1 X 159 and a Giulietta.

I bought one for $800.00 with 150,000 miles on the clock, it lasted until 224,000 miles until it rusted. At that point the cost of repair was higher than the fix so I got rid. The other two I got bored of after 130K miles. The newer Giulietta was rather dull and very much reliable, I've had more squeaks / rattles etc. from BMW'S, Jag's etc.

The early production 159 I had essentially clogged its own engine and fell apart, all the new fancy DPF systems destroyed it (it was new tech at the time). I had the same engine in a high mileage 156 but this one just didn't want to work properly.

Point? It's pot luck, if you're going to get a fancy car always keep an eye on the top line costs. If a B58 blew I'd be okay with replacing the engine, same goes for transmission but of course I really do hope that will never happen.

P.S The obligatory board statement will recommend you need a 340i or M3 even if you wanted a Mini..

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      08-08-2020, 08:03 AM   #55
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Another thing to be aware of is the ergonomics and interior. BMW is top notch when it comes to this. There are a lot of 320 haters out there but the car is still pretty fast and fun to drive. It's really good on gas. Don't pay more than 12 or 13k depending on mileage/features. I believe the biggest potential problem is the timing chain guide so read up on that.
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      08-08-2020, 11:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Firaxis View Post
Unless there's a common fault for a specific car you're never going to know. Okay, people often berate Alfa for reliability, in the early days I had many Alfa's 3X alfa 156's, two diesel, one petrol, 1 X 159 and a Giulietta.

I bought one for $800.00 with 150,000 miles on the clock, it lasted until 224,000 miles until it rusted. At that point the cost of repair was higher than the fix so I got rid. The other two I got bored of after 130K miles. The newer Giulietta was rather dull and very much reliable, I've had more squeaks / rattles etc. from BMW'S, Jag's etc.

The early production 159 I had essentially clogged its own engine and fell apart, all the new fancy DPF systems destroyed it (it was new tech at the time). I had the same engine in a high mileage 156 but this one just didn't want to work properly.

Point? It's pot luck, if you're going to get a fancy car always keep an eye on the top line costs. If a B58 blew I'd be okay with replacing the engine, same goes for transmission but of course I really do hope that will never happen.

P.S The obligatory board statement will recommend you need a 340i or M3 even if you wanted a Mini..
I leased a new Giulia when they came back into the U.S

Horrible quality. The car fell apart over the 2 year lease. I returned it blowing smoke and misfiring among other electrical issues. Scary how bad FCA is
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      08-09-2020, 07:04 AM   #57
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Yes Japanese cars on the whole are reliable but they have terrible rust resistance, so unless you live in the sun belt take note. BMW from the E90 onward have excellent steel quality and paint thickness and use lots of aluminum.
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      08-10-2020, 07:19 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
Add extended warranties and maintenance etc... there is not much difference to justify for me to buy used except for what I mentioned before... New car every 3 years is really nice... is usually when you catch the design change also...any dings smaller than a credit card is okay... 6" or shorter on the curb-rash for rims... oil changes included as with other maintenance... we very happy with it.... if your pinching pennies that much... maybe move to NYC and get a monthly subway pass...
Your initial statement was that the lease was comparable in cost to a four year old BMW, then when I say it isn't you say "new car every 3 years is nice" and "if your pinching pennies that much..." . "get a monthly subway pass..."which is completely different. If you want a new car every 3 years and prefer leases it's fine but not relevant to the initial question.
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      08-10-2020, 12:09 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
Add extended warranties and maintenance etc... there is not much difference to justify for me to buy used except for what I mentioned before... New car every 3 years is really nice... is usually when you catch the design change also...any dings smaller than a credit card is okay... 6" or shorter on the curb-rash for rims... oil changes included as with other maintenance... we very happy with it.... if your pinching pennies that much... maybe move to NYC and get a monthly subway pass...
So, for example I just picked up a 340i and could of easily gone for an M340i but when I factored everything in over an eight year period:

M340i:

New M340i $600.00 PM / $6K deposit, lease term 48 X 2 = roughly $70K

340i (19 plate / 8K miles): $410.00 PM (36 months) / $4K deposit / depreciation of additional 4 years minus car price based on (2011) 335i prices. Equity rate found higher than GMFV (18K vs. 19.5k eight year average selling rate).

Maintenance (projected at a very high rate)

Two year BMW service costs (under warranty): $400.00 X 2
Six year extended warranty, MOT's + general maintenance $9000.00

Total cost of ownership = roughly $27K

That's not penny pinching, going for the M340i or similar cars on perpetual leases or finance agreements is pure financial stupidity but that hasn't stopped me in the past if I REALLY wanted something. I knew for the cost of obtaining the latest and greatest I could buy a spare 340i to sit in my garage just in case one broke down.

I've even lost the cost of a 340i engine and transmission because I got bored of a car after a year.!! I'm sure the lump sum figure at the end of a personal contract purchase puts many people off but dependant on situation its not a bad idea.

Anyway, nothing stood out over the F30 340i this time around. Might as well save some $$$'s for once in over a decade of leasing / finance.
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      08-10-2020, 03:37 PM   #60
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New M340i $600.00 PM / $6K deposit, lease term 48 X 2 = roughly $70K

My car...

Bought Dec 2017
2015 BMW 335i Msport/ Mbrakes w/extended warranty and tire/wheel protection
72 month @ 640= $46080 nothing down + maitenance + mods ($3,000+/-) ... think'in about coilovers.. +$2500...
I Baby it beyond belief always worried about it to the point of paranoia.. lol... it doesn't even come out of the $179month garage if the streets aren't clear and above 40f

BMW current lease my area...
M340i Xdrive
549 lease x 72 = 39528
down payment (2) 3year leases= 7050
Total: 46,578 .... absolutely ZERO maitenance... ZERO MODS... well maybe a JB+ .... lol....
I BEAT the living shit out of leases.... it's a lease.... I'll park it on the street... lol...

So..... in my book .... it's a lot more fun leasing.... first time I bought a car in 28 years... I have always leased... we'll see on the next one...

I don't really look at trade in value at the end because the fun I could of had is priceless....

I'm not going to keep the car that long.... maybe another 2 years when the extended warranty is up... trade in value really tanked this year... and I'm not the private seller kind of person...

I'd be getting a new M340i this December if I was leasing right now... instead I'm stuck in my car payment cause trade in sucks....

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      08-10-2020, 04:51 PM   #61
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My wifes Volvo XC 90... leased ... we are parked next to a concrete wall... she scratched the front passenger nose real good down to plastic pulling out... I smoothed on some DR colorchip and you can't see it from 15ft away... perfect match.... they won't charge me for it if I get another Volvo... and if I didn't it's only like $200 ... my car... $1200 cause I'm not gonna drive around look'in like that... lol...

My wifes last lease had door dings all over it... didn't have to pay for one... tough living in the city... my car... I only go places I have ample parking... pain in the arse sometimes...

reminds me... I have a very slight door ding in my back door... well thats $300 for paintless dent removal...

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      08-10-2020, 10:28 PM   #62
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I have to say... that Dr ColorChip is great... I went way beyond it's intended use...this is from 3feet away... and a super close up... it was Huge black plastic scratches from the headlight all the way down to the bottom... the scratches caused the plastic to rise on the edges causing it to be bumpy due to displacement...just took it to the automatic car wash and wiped of the anything loose.. no sanding... took me over 2 hours to get it to this point while BS'in with my buddy... the darker white were the deeper scratches/rises... if I wet sanded and another couple coats and then wet sand then wheeled it ... it would be very close to perfect... but hey... looks good enough for a lease...15 feet away walking by you'd never notice it... heck at 3 feet I barely noticed.... Anyways... to each their own... good luck with what ever decision you go with... it only matters as long as your happy...

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      08-11-2020, 02:41 PM   #63
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I have had great luck with BMW. I bought an E46 new in 2004 and kept it for 15 years and 195k miles. I didn't have any major issues and did all of the maintenance and minor repairs myself. I also have a good relationship with a local indi shop. All of these things kept the cost of ownership way down.

I purchased a 2016 CPO 320I in 2019 with 32k miles for $17k. I couldn't pass up that bargain plus I have the CPO warranty through December 2020. I obviously didn't buy it for power but with a JB+ for a nice boost plus Sport+ coded to keep it in the meaty part of the power band it's actually very fun to drive. I added an Android Auto mmi which modernized the interior and the overall build quality is good. I love my 320I.
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      08-11-2020, 02:52 PM   #64
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Leasing is a terrible choice for an active person. At the end of the lease term you are likely to have spent $20k on the low end... and will have absolutely nothing to show for it until you agree to pony up another $20k. You will have also had to actually choose whether or not you can go certain places because you have to watch mileage as well. How fucking lame.

With a quality used purchase, you will own a car that will look good, drive good and last a helluva lot longer than that same lease term.

All depends on how much disposable income you have (or how financially irresponsible you are).
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      08-16-2020, 09:28 PM   #65
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Gotta agree, its the opposite for me that leasing would be terrible as i garage my cars and don't use her as a DD. I maybe put less than 600 miles per monthly on her..
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