[JD6]

I have been mulling over the idea of getting an EV. I still find the range thing an issue as I do like a car that can do a 300 mile run at a good pace. I probably do 10-12 of those drives a year, generally in the late evening and I don't think there's an EV that could manage that. However, I quite enjoyed a day in the Mini Electric recently, and the 100 mile range would be less of an issue for my second car.

Consequently I asked a local firm to quote to put a tethered charge point in the garage. There is already power in the garage, but it's just standard 13A sockets and lights, so new cables are needed. I knew it wasn't going to be cheap, but I hadn't expected it to be £5700! The firm is quite a sensible one, so while I might find it a little cheaper, I think that's the ballpark figure.

They did also quote to put a non-tethered point on the house - that was a much more reasonable £1700, but I do prefer using the garages and having bought a house with space to garage 3 cars, I'm a little reluctant to go down that route.

I expect to be in this house for something like another 5-10 years, so perhaps I should wait until we move before getting a charge point.

[kzg1969]

Wow - at that price, i would just use a 13a plug for charging!

[djcowlin]

That sounds like a lot of money. I'm assuming that a lengthy cable run is required from your electricity supply in the house and maybe some ground works?

If you shop around I'm sure you could bring the cost of the charge point down. With an untethered charger you could add, say, a 20m cable for around £300. You could leave the cable wound up in your garage when not in use and save about £4K.

[isleaiw1]

as said, options are to either charge outside (would you need to charge every night, even for a small battery car like a Mini?) or use a granny charger in the garage (not really recommended as they arent made for everyday use but my SIL never had a charger installed when he had the Tesla and just used the granny or work..)

Fisker Ocean top range model can apparently do 440 miles under the WLTP measures. Might even do 300 how you want to use it...but I think an EV for a second car makes more sense for your usage. The new Mini next year will apparently have better range for the higher powered versions....

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by kzg1969

Wow - at that price, i would just use a 13a plug for charging!

Bingo
2nd car, sockets already there. No need to go 7Kw charging. Just accept it’s a full overnight effort for the 2nd car.

Although I’m confused and don’t really know what the brief is now, 300 miles non stop at 80mph motorway speed I guess we’re await a £90k Lucid Air or at a push M3 LR with base wheels is rated 420 miles so 300 potentially.

Seems like a pricey exercise for now and given those choices I’d update or check the validity of the already installed 13Amp socket or have a commando connector adalpted.

Good luck

[E60525d]

Why is there a £4000 between the two quotes?

I thought different between tethered and unthered is tethered has a permanent charging cable attached?

[JD6]

Originally Posted by djcowlin

That sounds like a lot of money. I'm assuming that a lengthy cable run is required from your electricity supply in the house and maybe some ground works?

If you shop around I'm sure you could bring the cost of the charge point down. With an untethered charger you could add, say, a 20m cable for around £300. You could leave the cable wound up in your garage when not in use and save about £4K.

It's around 65m and apparently that necessitates a lower resistance cable which is about an inch thick. That then means it has to be buried in the garden, rather than running along the house and wall which links to the garage. I don't have a breakdown of costs, just a total figure.

I'm not sure that the tethered/untethered options make a large price difference - I just wanted untethered if it was on the side of the house.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

as said, options are to either charge outside (would you need to charge every night, even for a small battery car like a Mini?) or use a granny charger in the garage (not really recommended as they arent made for everyday use but my SIL never had a charger installed when he had the Tesla and just used the granny or work..)

Fisker Ocean top range model can apparently do 440 miles under the WLTP measures. Might even do 300 how you want to use it...but I think an EV for a second car makes more sense for your usage. The new Mini next year will apparently have better range for the higher powered versions....

I think the other problem with the granny charger is I'll be paying a normal unit rate as it would have to charge during the day as well as night. The cost saving between 30p/KWh and £1.52/litre of diesel is pretty small.

As you say, I think it makes more sense to have the second car as an EV, particularly given it does quite a few short journeys, but the charge point cost may rule it out.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Bingo
2nd car, sockets already there. No need to go 7Kw charging. Just accept it’s a full overnight effort for the 2nd car.

Although I’m confused and don’t really know what the brief is now, 300 miles non stop at 80mph motorway speed I guess we’re await a £90k Lucid Air or at a push M3 LR with base wheels is rated 420 miles so 300 potentially.

Seems like a pricey exercise for now and given those choices I’d update or check the validity of the already installed 13Amp socket or have a commando connector adalpted.

Good luck

There isn't really a brief, except that I enjoyed driving an EV for the first time recently, when I had a loan Mini Electric, so I thought I should look at the costs involved. My Mini Cooper D is about 8 years old now, but perhaps keeping it may make sense.

The main issue with 13A charging is not being able to access the cheap rates.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Why is there a £4000 between the two quotes?

I thought different between tethered and unthered is tethered has a permanent charging cable attached?

It is comparing a simple 7 metre cable run from the consumer unit within the boiler room and out through the wall, to a 65 metre cable run which will go through the attic, then into a trench in the garden and through the wall into the garage. I'm sure that labour is the main factor in the difference.

I suspect that the tethered/untethered part is a small difference as you suggest.

[Cilonen]

My 2021 M3LR will comfortably do 300 miles real world at over m'way speeds in the summer months, and over 300 at A-road speeds down to single-digit temps.
The "Highland" updated M3LR will have greater range.
A loo break within that distance will easily add 20-30% to the battery at a Tesla Supercharger.


As far as charger installation goes - how far is the garage (& charge point location) from your electrical consumer unit (fuse box)?
20m of cable is included in the standard installation price, anything over that is around £5-10 per metre.
If you need to trench the cable between house & garage, then it's about £30/m for trenching (soft ground), lots more if driveway/etc, plus hire of small digger (£300 easily) & any tools for digging up driveway.

Given the prices you've quoted, your consumer unit must be some distance from the possible charger locations.


It may be worthwhile checking with your electric supplier/DNO on the possibility of upgrading to 3-phase electrics, especially if the supply run would enter your property passing the garage, and look at having a consumer unit fitted in the garage as well.
This will give you faster charging & scope to add additional chargers in future.

[KRS_SN]

Most days Im doing between 40-100 miles.
An EV is perfect for this
Few times a year I'll do 300 miles plus with kids elders dogs etc to remote areas.ICE is perfect for this.
Given the hours I spend in each and distances done all things being rather equal otherwise in the 2 cars like ride and creature comforts It was clear to me the EV is the primary car and ICE is a distant secondary, nevertheless important.

[Cilonen]

Just seen your response on distance - you could dig the trench yourself if it's all soft ground, just needs to be 40cm deep throughout. Hire the digger yourself, then it's just the cable cost, and you get to play with a mini digger!

[cramsnik]

FWIW A 'standard' install of a Zappi to the garage with tethered cable was circa £1300 about 18 months ago. Like you, I already had power in the garage for lights. Does sound like a whopping chunk of your costs is due to having to bury a cable.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by JD6

I think the other problem with the granny charger is I'll be paying a normal unit rate as it would have to charge during the day as well as night. The cost saving between 30p/KWh and £1.52/litre of diesel is pretty small.

As you say, I think it makes more sense to have the second car as an EV, particularly given it does quite a few short journeys, but the charge point cost may rule it out.

Incorrect, I'm using a granny charger for my e-golf and getting cheap rates on Intelligent Octopus. 7.5p per kWh!

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by JD6

I think the other problem with the granny charger is I'll be paying a normal unit rate as it would have to charge during the day as well as night. The cost saving between 30p/KWh and £1.52/litre of diesel is pretty small.

As you say, I think it makes more sense to have the second car as an EV, particularly given it does quite a few short journeys, but the charge point cost may rule it out.

Something like a mini electric can be charged on a 13amp socket in about 10 hours, so assuming it wasn't from 0-100% all the time you could do that on a cheap overnight rate without the need for a specific EV tariff. It'll take you over 200 charges on the cheaper rate to make the £1700 back for the charger install compared to just using the 13amp socket let along the other quote. I can understand wanting a 7kW charger for a 70-100kWh EV but for a second car with a small battery it's probably not worth it.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

Something like a mini electric can be charged on a 13amp socket in about 10 hours, so assuming it wasn't from 0-100% all the time you could do that on a cheap overnight rate without the need for a specific EV tariff. It'll take you over 200 charges on the cheaper rate to make the £1700 back for the charger install compared to just using the 13amp socket let along the other quote. I can understand wanting a 7kW charger for a 70-100kWh EV but for a second car with a small battery it's probably not worth it.

Agree 100%

We have a e-Golf as a 2nd car which works brilliantly. And like I mentioned, due to the small battery it easily charges to full overnight using the cheap rates.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Incorrect, I'm using a granny charger for my e-golf and getting cheap rates on Intelligent Octopus. 7.5p per kWh!

Yes correct, and agree, I moved to OI before getting my charger installed, but I think JD6's point is that a 'full' charge nearly empty to full would be outside the cheap rates for a lot of the charge. eg 7 hrs etc

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Yes correct, and agree, I moved to OI before getting my charger installed, but I think JD6's point is that a 'full' charge nearly empty to full would be outside the cheap rates for a lot of the charge. eg 7 hrs etc

Not quite, as it depends on the battery size and how much charge it requires.

If you set a schedule, IO will charge the car on the cheaper rates by the departure time you have set.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Not quite, if you set a schedule, IO will charge the car on the cheaper rates by the departure time you have set.

Yeah..if I'm near empty and plug in at 12am for eg the cheap rates continue till my set target is reached even if it takes till 9am.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Incorrect, I'm using a granny charger for my e-golf and getting cheap rates on Intelligent Octopus. 7.5p per kWh!

That's interesting. I've had a look on the Octopus site. It seems a bit vague as to how it works and the pricing so perhaps you could clarify.

They talk about charging at the peak rate if you don't want to wait for the cheap overnight charge. How much is the peak rate and does it vary?

What is the unit rate for general household usage - I assume it's above the Ofgem cap price?

How many hours per night of cheap rate charging do you get?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JD6

That's interesting. I've had a look on the Octopus site. It seems a bit vague as to how it works and the pricing so perhaps you could clarify.

They talk about charging at the peak rate if you don't want to wait for the cheap overnight charge. How much is the peak rate and does it vary?

What is the unit rate for general household usage - I assume it's above the Ofgem cap price?

How many hours per night of cheap rate charging do you get?

Octopus Intelligent - 6 hours cheap rate
Exact rates vary according to location but 7.5p and 30p ish for me.
If you let OI control the charge they set a schedule that suits them and you - so if you dont need full 6 hours for car they will do it at time that suits them (you still get all electric in those 6 hours at cheap rate)
if you need more than 6 hours worth to achieve desired charge level they will do it beyond the hours and extend the cheap rate for all your electric use to this period.

If you decide unexpectedly at 3pm you need your car and bump charge it that will be peak rate...

Think that covers it.

ETA either the charger or the car has to be compatible with octopus