[nemobanks]

Is it me or E85 mixtures aren't n20 EWG friendly. There was cars running e85 FBO and straight pipe Exhaust and jb4 , both eventually started misfiring and blow up within a or two month. ( both Motors were replaced under warranty) What's the ideal Mix ?

[D041987]

First issue is running a JB4. I posted before with looking over many logs of people that have had issues and or experience symptoms. Bottom line....JB4 and many other piggy backs lean out the AFR even more than what factory is. So under WOT the AFR is reading 15 or so. Than tapers down to 13's. This would be OK on a non turbo motor but on a boosted motor anything above 12.5 AFR under WOT is asking to go BANG. Now throw in E85 which normally you would need to run about 35% more fuel to make the same combustion process as normal RON fuel and there goes your motor as it gets too lean. TO get a proper setup you NEED A ECU TUNE coupled with the JB4 to control the E85 mix.

To note, our motor is garbage, nothing is forged and the first thing to go is the rod bolts as they stretch. We have oiling issues as well when taking hard corners. So to be safe you would want to upgrade at minimum the bearings along with the rod bolts on the bottom end to push the stock turbo. To get around 350+WHP you will than want to upgrade the turbo to at least a Pure Stage 2 as to not be maxing the turbo and components which create excessive amounts of heat and are a contributing factor to motor issues.

Quick and cheap HP is never safe. The products are good at what they do but at the expense of a motor very early on. Especially on this N20. Safest option to keep your car on the road and have HP is ECU tune.

As to your question on mix. Start off around 25 to 30%. Nothing more and LOG your AFR and Timing. Than determine if it is safe or not to run. Also make sure your engine temp does not rise.

[xroshx]

Originally Posted by D041987

First issue is running a JB4. I posted before with looking over many logs of people that have had issues and or experience symptoms. Bottom line....JB4 and many other piggy backs lean out the AFR even more than what factory is. So under WOT the AFR is reading 15 or so. Than tapers down to 13's. This would be OK on a non turbo motor but on a boosted motor anything above 12.5 AFR under WOT is asking to go BANG. Now throw in E85 which normally you would need to run about 35% more fuel to make the same combustion processs as normal RON fuel and there goes your motor as it gets too lean. TO get a proper setup you NEED A ECU TUNE coupled with the JB4 to control the E85 mix.

To note, our motor is garbage, nothing is forged and the first thing to go is the rod bolts as they stretch. We have oiling issues as well when taking hard corners. So to be safe you would want to upgrade at minimum the bearings along with the rod bolts on the bottom end to push the stock turbo. To get around 350+WHP you will than want to upgrade the turbo to at least a Pure Stage 2 as to not be maxing the turbo and components which create excessive amounts of heat and are a contributing factor to motor issues.

Quick and cheap HP is never safe. The products are good at what they do but at the expense of a motor very early on. Especially on this N20. Safest option to keep your car on the road and have HP is ECU tune.

As to your question on mix. Start off around 25 to 30%. Nothing more and LOG your AFR and Timing. Than determine if it is safe or not to run. Also make sure your engine temp does not rise.

So you're saying JB4 tune on a F30 will turn the car to shit? Or am I totally off topic here hehe..

[D041987]

Originally Posted by xroshx

So you're saying JB4 tune on a F30 will turn the car to shit? Or am I totally off topic here hehe..

In short, eventually running LEAN will blow your motor. IT is a ticking time bomb. But tune your car as you like my friend. As stated the product is good at what it does but needs to be coupled with a proper ECU tune for the motor to be safe.

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by D041987

First issue is running a JB4. I posted before with looking over many logs of people that have had issues and or experience symptoms. Bottom line....JB4 and many other piggy backs lean out the AFR even more than what factory is. So under WOT the AFR is reading 15 or so. Than tapers down to 13's. This would be OK on a non turbo motor but on a boosted motor anything above 12.5 AFR under WOT is asking to go BANG. Now throw in E85 which normally you would need to run about 35% more fuel to make the same combustion process as normal RON fuel and there goes your motor as it gets too lean. TO get a proper setup you NEED A ECU TUNE coupled with the JB4 to control the E85 mix.

To note, our motor is garbage, nothing is forged and the first thing to go is the rod bolts as they stretch. We have oiling issues as well when taking hard corners. So to be safe you would want to upgrade at minimum the bearings along with the rod bolts on the bottom end to push the stock turbo. To get around 350+WHP you will than want to upgrade the turbo to at least a Pure Stage 2 as to not be maxing the turbo and components which create excessive amounts of heat and are a contributing factor to motor issues.

Quick and cheap HP is never safe. The products are good at what they do but at the expense of a motor very early on. Especially on this N20. Safest option to keep your car on the road and have HP is ECU tune.

As to your question on mix. Start off around 25 to 30%. Nothing more and LOG your AFR and Timing. Than determine if it is safe or not to run. Also make sure your engine temp does not rise.

I thought if you use a "normal" piggy back on you engine like a stage 1 tune, the factory ECU will adjust the afr automatically. Then the risk should be lower right?

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by D041987

First issue is running a JB4. I posted before with looking over many logs of people that have had issues and or experience symptoms. Bottom line....JB4 and many other piggy backs lean out the AFR even more than what factory is. So under WOT the AFR is reading 15 or so. Than tapers down to 13's. This would be OK on a non turbo motor but on a boosted motor anything above 12.5 AFR under WOT is asking to go BANG. Now throw in E85 which normally you would need to run about 35% more fuel to make the same combustion process as normal RON fuel and there goes your motor as it gets too lean. TO get a proper setup you NEED A ECU TUNE coupled with the JB4 to control the E85 mix.

To note, our motor is garbage, nothing is forged and the first thing to go is the rod bolts as they stretch. We have oiling issues as well when taking hard corners. So to be safe you would want to upgrade at minimum the bearings along with the rod bolts on the bottom end to push the stock turbo. To get around 350+WHP you will than want to upgrade the turbo to at least a Pure Stage 2 as to not be maxing the turbo and components which create excessive amounts of heat and are a contributing factor to motor issues.

Quick and cheap HP is never safe. The products are good at what they do but at the expense of a motor very early on. Especially on this N20. Safest option to keep your car on the road and have HP is ECU tune.

As to your question on mix. Start off around 25 to 30%. Nothing more and LOG your AFR and Timing. Than determine if it is safe or not to run. Also make sure your engine temp does not rise.

So bootmod3 is the way to go

[LaCross]

Another blown up jb4 car lol. Junk. Sorry about your situation op.

[Domotron]

seems like all this piggy back ECU crap is just not worth the hassle... sorry about your car dude

[Diegov209]

Originally Posted by Domotron

seems like all this piggy back ECU crap is just not worth the hassle... sorry about your car dude

What ECU tune do you guys recommend?

[D041987]

Honestly I have been following the tuners for a bit.

1. ACF Performance
2. BR Performance
3. Mission Performance
4. GSR
5. BootMod3 (This is a unlocking service for the ECU and comes with a stock Stage 1 map. Allows for remote session to load a tune to the ECU without having to send it in to the shop. This will be beneficial for someone that wants to build the car later and retune or if the tunner has free map updates. This is also nice as the tunner can remote in and fine tune your car if there are some issues as every off the shelf stage 1 map might not work right for a car, so fine tunning usually comes into play and this delivers.

[insanecoder]

Wow the story for me here is you blew two motors and both were replaced under warranty
no raised eyebrows from BMW?

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Lobb

The N20 is pretty well known for ingesting itself without any "help"

lol oh I see.. I didnt know that about the N20 sorry to hear that this engine is troublesome

[Diegov209]

Originally Posted by D041987

Honestly I have been following the tuners for a bit.

1. ACF Performance
2. BR Performance
3. Mission Performance
4. GSR
5. BootMod3 (This is a unlocking service for the ECU and comes with a stock Stage 1 map. Allows for remote session to load a tune to the ECU without having to send it in to the shop. This will be beneficial for someone that wants to build the car later and retune or if the tunner has free map updates. This is also nice as the tunner can remote in and fine tune your car if there are some issues as every off the shelf stage 1 map might not work right for a car, so fine tunning usually comes into play and this delivers.

Thank you bro for the recommendations and advice the only one ive really researched is DME tuning because they offer a "pops and bangs" map which is like a crackle map its pretty cool ill definetly check these out tho thank you Oh DME tuning is the same as BR performance they will recommend you to DME tuning

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by nemobanks

Is it me or E85 mixtures aren't n20 EWG friendly. There was cars running e85 FBO and straight pipe Exhaust and jb4 , both eventually started misfiring and blow up within a or two month. ( both Motors were replaced under warranty) What's the ideal Mix ?

You should never use E85 with EWG N20 engines. Burger Tuning have an explicit warning about doing so.

E85 mixtures are not suggested for the electronic wastegate x28i model as the high pressure pump may have a hard time keeping up with fuel volume demand

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You should never use E85 with EWG N20 engines. Burger Tuning have an explicit warning about doing so.

E85 mixtures are not suggested for the electronic wastegate x28i model as the high pressure pump may have a hard time keeping up with fuel volume demand

I've been running the car on 93 octane full bolt on map 1. Terry From N54tech said "Logs look solid.. Map1 might be a safer choice here long term as the map2 run has a few timing drops, and the N20 motor tends to become less reliable above 22psi."

Map 2,5,7 are pointless then. I believe BMS needs to go back to drawing boards.

[D041987]

Nemo can you post or send me a 3rd and 4th gear WOT pull log so I can see what you are at with 93 gas? Just curious.

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by D041987

Nemo can you post or send me a 3rd and 4th gear WOT pull log so I can see what you are at with 93 gas? Just curious.

GO TO http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48277

To See my Logs, I went in-depth with it.

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by D041987

Nemo can you post or send me a 3rd and 4th gear WOT pull log so I can see what you are at with 93 gas? Just curious.

Reply back on here.

[D041987]

You are pulling timing Between 2500 and 3100 RPM which also raises the AFR starting from 16.6 to 13.2 and settles down past 3200 RPM which is our midrange RPM and most have experienced the engine pop around this RPM range. Your bolt on's, fuel, and Front Mount Really help you in this situation as your IAT's are nice and low which keep everything else in check for the most part.

Map 1 looks better with less timing pull and also better looking AFR's.

So safe to say run map 1 as Terry has mentioned with 93 or higher grade fuel as another member has done the same thing as in most instanced using the recommended octane has resulted in very high AFR's and timing pull. And run map 2 with 95 or higher grade fuel to keep safe.

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by D041987

You are pulling timing Between 2500 and 3100 RPM which also raises the AFR starting from 16.6 to 13.2 and settles down past 3200 RPM which is our midrange RPM and most have experienced the engine pop around this RPM range. Your bolt on's, fuel, and Front Mount Really help you in this situation as your IAT's are nice and low which keep everything else in check for the most part.

Map 1 looks better with less timing pull and also better looking AFR's.

So safe to say run map 1 as Terry has mentioned with 93 or higher grade fuel as another member has done the same thing as in most instanced using the recommended octane has resulted in very high AFR's and timing pull. And run map 2 with 95 or higher grade fuel to keep safe.

Is this in sport+ or DSC Completely turned off?

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by nemobanks

I've been running the car on 93 octane full bolt on map 1. Terry From N54tech said "Logs look solid.. Map1 might be a safer choice here long term as the map2 run has a few timing drops, and the N20 motor tends to become less reliable above 22psi."

Map 2,5,7 are pointless then. I believe BMS needs to go back to drawing boards.

What is the default psi of N20? 17?

[D041987]

That was the Sport + Maps but your DSC looks to be close to the same. Looking at all the maps seems like the initial start of your run around 2400RPM and going to almost 3200RPM the AFR goes up than settles down. This might be due to the interception of when the JB4 reads the the boost and alters it before sending it back to the ECU. So it is a small amount of RPM and that goes by quick but after the maps look to be good staying around the high 12's and dropping to high 11's for the AFR. But still the best looking and safer option is Map 1.

Can you post a log of the stock tune on your car with the JB4 Off to compare the numbers?