[atg4]

I love all the people crying about F30 steering...

Call me crazy, I love how my F30 handles and steers.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by alexandertg21

I love all the people crying about F30 steering...

Call me crazy, I love how my F30 handles and steers.

I wont call ya crazy But have you owned an E90 or below? If so you would understand, With that being said its really not that bad.

[atg4]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

I wont call ya crazy But have you owned an E90 or below? If so you would understand, With that being said its really not that bad.

Here are the Bimmers I've owned:
E36 M3
E46 M3
E66 745li
E66 750li
E92 M3
E90 328i
E85 2.5i
E89 s35i
F30 AH3
F30 335I
F06 640GC
F10 535I
MINI R53 GP

I still don't understand. In fact I liked my F30 so much, I got a 2nd one.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by alexandertg21

Here are the Bimmers I've owned:
E36 M3
E46 M3
E66 745li
E66 750li
E92 M3
E90 328i
E85 2.5i
E89 s35i
F30 AH3
F30 335I
F06 640GC
F10 535I
MINI R53 GP

I still don't understand. In fact I liked my F30 so much, I got a 2nd one.

Well then you know better than me ive only had an E30 / E36 / E90... Like I was saying its not a huge difference people like to complain and get on the bandwagon
Now to just code it to be in SPORT mode at all times, In Sport it feels similar or real close to my E90.. In comfort not so much.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by alexandertg21

I love all the people crying about F30 steering...

Call me crazy, I love how my F30 handles and steers.

I agree. When I read posters slamming the F30 for steering I'm always thinking "they can't be talking about my car." There are so many negative comments I'm wondering if BMW is installing different steering systems in some cars than others or the software is different.

I know when I get a loaner it feels different than mine, mostly because I have DHP and VSS, but it could be there are different steering systems in different F30s. How else could there be such a wide range of opinions? Just wondering....


Regarding the Camaro: It sounds like Chevy got it right this time. Good for them.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I agree. When I read posters slamming the F30 for steering I'm always thinking "they can't be talking about my car." There are so many negative comments I'm wondering if BMW is installing different steering systems in some cars than others or the software is different.

I know when I get a loaner it feels different than mine, mostly because I have DHP and VSS, but it could be there are different steering systems in different F30s. How else could there be such a wide range of opinions? Just wondering....

Similar thinking, we've had this same sort of 'extreme of views' with the F10/11 models. There are subtle variations from testing several models. From my experience it involves other options fitted, and OE wheel & tire selection.

Personally I have no issues with the EPS in my F11. Of course it was different to the HPAS in my E91 330d wagon, steering weight an immediate and obvious change. Having lived with the steering for over 3-years, I actually prefer the weight and feel in the normal/comfort settings, sport adds heft but doesn't really add any more steering sensitivity or technically improve the driving experience. Subjectively maybe, as it does feel more 'sporty'.

What I have found, tire pressures are more critical than older generations of BMW, you need to find the sweet spot for where the road feel is optimised.

Same applies for suspension geometry, steering wheel must be on centre when driving a straight path, (steering angle sensing is from within the rack) any deviation and steering precision and feel is corrupted.

The fact I never ever think about the steering, says a lot to me. I remember driving one F30 and thinking something was wrong, checked the tire pressures when I got home and adjusted them. Steering and suspension feel was much improved for the next day's driving.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Similar thinking, we've had this same sort of 'extreme of views' with the F10/11 models. There are subtle variations from testing several models. From my experience it involves other options fitted, and OE wheel & tire selection.

Personally I have no issues with the EPS in my F11. Of course it was different to the HPAS in my E91 330d wagon, steering weight an immediate and obvious change. Having lived with the steering for over 3-years, I actually prefer the weight and feel in the normal/comfort settings, sport adds heft but doesn't really add any more steering sensitivity or technically improve the driving experience. Subjectively maybe, as it does feel more 'sporty'.

What I have found, tire pressures are more critical than older generations of BMW, you need to find the sweet spot for where the road feel is optimised.

Same applies for suspension geometry, steering wheel must be on centre when driving a straight path, (steering angle sensing is from within the rack) any deviation and steering precision and feel is corrupted.

The fact I never ever think about the steering, says a lot to me. I remember driving one F30 and thinking something was wrong, checked the tire pressures when I got home and adjusted them. Steering and suspension feel was much improved for the next day's driving.

It's a personal opinion. If you all either don't feel it, don't care or just prefer it, that's great. Others, me, feel it, and don't like it. It is neither right nor wrong, just a personal preference. Similar to the auto is better than the manual debate. Neither side will budge because it's what they prefer. I don't understand how you can't feel or like the change, and vice versa. We shouldn't try to convince each other we are right and you are wrong. I, admittedly, at times am guilty of this. We're passionate car people.
As my father used to say that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by PSA955

It's a personal opinion. If you all either don't feel it, don't care or just prefer it, that's great. Others, me, feel it, and don't like it. It is neither right nor wrong, just a personal preference. Similar to the auto is better than the manual debate. Neither side will budge because it's what they prefer. I don't understand how you can't feel or like the change, and vice versa. We shouldn't try to convince each other we are right and you are wrong. I, admittedly, at times am guilty of this. We're passionate car people.
As my father used to say that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

I agree with your reply, much of the opinion is personal preference, it is bound to be, (same as for suspension performance). Our views are subjective, as we aren't using instrumentation to analyse what is actually going on. Car & Driver tested EPS vs. HPAS in the F10, the results were quite surprising to many, particularly when instrumentation showed what was really was on.

I recall driving a Jaguar XF and finding the steering very light, compared to my BMW of the time, but the steering was more precise than the BMW, and the feedback on par with the BMW. Many had negative views on the XF steering, simply based on it being light in feel. Was it in fact inferior? No way, many later came to appreciate it was probably better than the BMW, combined with Jaguar's suspension tuning was a more fluid experience to drive through the twisties.

I suppose some of it is what we sense is a driver's choice. I personally, (although I'd class myself as a car enthusiast and a long term BMW user) don't like go-kart like steering responses in a vehicle designed as daily transport. I see what some view as positive feedback as negative 'noise' even steering corruption on many surfaces. Even added steering weighting can be a heavy damped feeling, rather than adding to road feel and the driving experience. Yes, that is my opinion, other users will take a different stance, love the heavy feel, see it as a sporty response, therefore better.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Similar thinking, we've had this same sort of 'extreme of views' with the F10/11 models. There are subtle variations from testing several models. From my experience it involves other options fitted, and OE wheel & tire selection.

Personally I have no issues with the EPS in my F11. Of course it was different to the HPAS in my E91 330d wagon, steering weight an immediate and obvious change. Having lived with the steering for over 3-years, I actually prefer the weight and feel in the normal/comfort settings, sport adds heft but doesn't really add any more steering sensitivity or technically improve the driving experience. Subjectively maybe, as it does feel more 'sporty'.

What I have found, tire pressures are more critical than older generations of BMW, you need to find the sweet spot for where the road feel is optimised.

Same applies for suspension geometry, steering wheel must be on centre when driving a straight path, (steering angle sensing is from within the rack) any deviation and steering precision and feel is corrupted.

The fact I never ever think about the steering, says a lot to me. I remember driving one F30 and thinking something was wrong, checked the tire pressures when I got home and adjusted them. Steering and suspension feel was much improved for the next day's driving.

In addition, tires make a huge difference. When I switched from the OEM Pirelli P7 all season RFT's to go flat Conti DWS's the steering even in sport mode became considerably lighter which is unfortunate but the on center feel and grip increased greatly. True RFT summer tires may be the best case scenario. I don't know.