[J Tiberius]

I'll try to stay out of the melee and just answer the original question: I am a career military officer.

[sunxnus]

Originally Posted by jtuds

My position is as follows: it doesn't matter what you do or how much you make for doing it. People can buy what they want and the predicament their decisions put them in is on them and nobody else. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter....at all.

As for the poster I have replied to, you're making no sense. I'll remove myself from the conversation until you're able to clarify what you've said, because it reads as though you think "adults" ought to compare salaries, and those who don't are morons.

Based on your response, you are exactly the type of adult I'm referring to. Or maybe you aren't even reached maturity yet. BTW, I never said adult should compare salaries. All I was inferring is if you don't know when to ask question especially related to financial matter, you are either a self centered moron or a irresponsible adult. Why? Look at what happened with the credit market today. Look at what we just got out, if we got out already, from the mess that we made 5-8 years ago. It was due to people who don't seek financial advise and buy property based on their moronic judgement. (well, the sales guy did a piss poor job to fool them into)

That's right jtuds, you ought to leave this conversation if you have nothing better to tell the OP.

To the OP, I used to develop MBS/CDS trading software and laugh at people who purchases house without knowing how much they got leveraged.

My advise to you; buy what you need not what you can.

[RedlineSi]

This isn't a black and white discussion. $90k on the coasts is a lot different than here in the Mid-West. I make $95k in Minneapolis, but I'm driving a $45k car, not a $60k car.

[raleedy]

Car thief.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by RedlineSi

This isn't a black and white discussion. $90k on the coasts is a lot different than here in the Mid-West. I make $95k in Minneapolis, but I'm driving a $45k car, not a $60k car.

If your profile is up to date, you're driving a $10K car, not a $45K one. The other $35K is in your past.

[pmc123]

Originally Posted by raannathr333

My Rules of Thumb...

1. Max out 401(k) / Keogh or other tax deferred plan
2. Max IRA contribution (if allowed)
3. Annual Net Income after contributions (less taxes) / 12 = Y

Y / 3 = Mortgage / Rent
Y / 4 = Car Payment
Y / 5/12 = Food, Gas, entertainment, clothing, and additional investing activities... You know... Like Vegas

I like this formula ... though, someone making about $150k gross like me would be able to afford... a stripped Honda Accord

[Carnook]

I think an important distinction is the difference between being able to afford something and being able to pay for it. There are lots of people who can make the payments on a new BMW, but that doesn't mean they can afford it. There are perhaps serious long-term sacrifices that those people are making in order to have the short-term enjoyment of a new BMW.

If I only made 90k (in Canada) I wouldn't be buying a new F30. After income taxes, mortgage, property taxes, utilities, living expenses, retirement savings, etc there isn't much left from that 90k. Especially if you have a family to take care of.

Don't judge yourself on whether you can buy the same things that you see others buying because you don't know whether they can truly afford them. If there is any reason to look at what others are doing it is to learn from their mistakes.

[RedlineSi]

Originally Posted by raleedy

If your profile is up to date, you're driving a $10K car, not a $45K one. The other $35K is in your past.

I have a new F30 on the way dill hole. Also the 330i is worth more like 17k right now, not 10k, but whatever floats your boat. New it was 44k as well.

[bl@ster]

Is it getting hot in here?

[Sy546]

I have 2 $60k cars now + a $20k car that is about to be sold.

I own a couple of businesses but it took tons of patience and self control to get there.

It is funny to see some of my employees or fellow grads. who spend like idiots. My employees shouldn't be spending more than me but many of them do.

I spend a good amount but i have 12 months of savings and I'm always saving to start/expand more businesses. It takes a lot of discipline to become "wealthy". Anyone can be rich. I am trying to become wealthy not rich. For four years i saved every penny so i could expand my business. If i had wasted it on a car i would have been making the same amount i did 5 years ago.

I don't own a house though. I rent b.c it is MUCH cheaper right now in NYC. But i do own commercial real estate. It's a better investment for me since it relates to my businesses holdings.

[Raspartan]

Originally Posted by Casper van G

Comparison with the Netherlands: Income tax is 52%, VAT 19% and we have all kinds of luxury taxes (42%) and CO2 penalties. A 335i loaded therefore cost here around EUR 85,000 (= c. USD 110,000). So i believe you should not complain and be happy your administration are printing new money instead of levying taxes ;-)

Well I think we're not doing too badly economically here, but certainly our marginal tax rates and VAT equivalent are quite high too (46%/13%). I find that comparisons of purchasing power between different countries is impossible if you base it solely on converting one currency into another. There are many other factors such as the cost of living, industry salaries, and of course income taxes as you indicated.

I mentioned the Canadian disparity because the original poster is Canadian and I thought that perhaps the differences might not have been evident to everyone. Having said that it does seem that we're in better shape than the Netherlands in this one respect, but likely that level of taxation buys you something that we don't have here. After all, there is never a free lunch.

[Sy546]

Originally Posted by Calmwinds

Unless you get sick and end up paying all your savings and then some to the doctors.

We do have things like health insurance here

[sunxnus]

Originally Posted by Carnook

I think an important distinction is the difference between being able to afford something and being able to pay for it. There are lots of people who can make the payments on a new BMW, but that doesn't mean they can afford it. There are perhaps serious long-term sacrifices that those people are making in order to have the short-term enjoyment of a new BMW.

If I only made 90k (in Canada) I wouldn't be buying a new F30. After income taxes, mortgage, property taxes, utilities, living expenses, retirement savings, etc there isn't much left from that 90k. Especially if you have a family to take care of.

Don't judge yourself on whether you can buy the same things that you see others buying because you don't know whether they can truly afford them. If there is any reason to look at what others are doing it is to learn from their mistakes.

Bravo!

[vineeth]

Guys can we get back on topic or lets close this thread and start afresh.

[walile]

Originally Posted by S.hasan546

If i had wasted it on a car i would have been making the same amount i did 5 years ago.

This assumes that your business carries no risk. The opposite could've easily been true, which would be something like if I didn't blow my money trying to expend my business, I can be driving a nice car now that I know for sure I will enjoy.

[Sy546]

Originally Posted by walile

This assumes that your business carries no risk. The opposite could've easily been true, which would be something like if I didn't blow my money trying to expend my business, I can be driving a nice car now that I know for sure I will enjoy.

yes but in one situation your risking your money to make money. In the other your using your money to lose money guaranteed. Live within your means and things will hopefully work out.

Everyone loses money at some point in business. Lost $50k not even a year ago. But with no risk comes no reward. A loss in business is a part of the cost of doing business. Never met someone who hasn't lost some $ in at least one business in their lifetime.

My rule of thumb has always been that just saving and not buying that car or watch or w.e is always the more cautious/correct route. Most of the time after the initial wanting period it blows over and you never think about it again. It is almost ALWAYS better to invest your money than to spend it on a toy.

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by sunxnus

Based on your response, you are exactly the type of adult I'm referring to. Or maybe you aren't even reached maturity yet. BTW, I never said adult should compare salaries. All I was inferring is if you don't know when to ask question especially related to financial matter, you are either a self centered moron or a irresponsible adult. Why? Look at what happened with the credit market today. Look at what we just got out, if we got out already, from the mess that we made 5-8 years ago. It was due to people who don't seek financial advise and buy property based on their moronic judgement. (well, the sales guy did a piss poor job to fool them into)

That's right jtuds, you ought to leave this conversation if you have nothing better to tell the OP.

To the OP, I used to develop MBS/CDS trading software and laugh at people who purchases house without knowing how much they got leveraged.

My advise to you; buy what you need not what you can.

So the question one needs to ask himself is "can I afford this"? Is that the groundbreaking wisdom you're benevolently imparting upon us?

[walile]

Originally Posted by S.hasan546

yes but in one situation your risking your money to make money. In the other your using your money to lose money guaranteed. Live within your means and things will hopefully work out.

If you think buying a nice car is losing money, then perhaps you fail to appreciate the finer things in life. Thus, a car is simply a transportation device that gets you from point A to B.

But it can be more than that to some, thus they are not losing money but rather spending money in exchange for positive utility. You also fail to account for the latest passive and active safety improvements that you benefit from your new car. So, it's not just about the bling. If I have wife and kids, I will put them in the 5 series simply because it is one of the safest car today and the bonus being that I will really enjoy driving it.

I am really curious as to why you are here instead of looking for a 92 Honda Civic on Autotrader? This is an honest question and not intended as an insult. Because seriously that sounds more like your cup of tea than the new 3.

[svache]

Originally Posted by walile

But it can be more than that to some, thus they are not losing money but rather spending money in exchange for positive utility. You also fail to account for the latest passive and active safety improvements that you benefit from your new car. So, it's not just about the bling.

Usually, a new car also has a better mileage, and that could account for something as well. For me personally, this F30 is going to save me 200 dollar a month in mileage alone, not to mention the savings in other parts (such as insurance and registration due to significant lower weights coming from my X5)

Also, and this is even more specific to my own personal situation. I ordered/bought this car with the possibility in mind that I would move to Europe. If I were to sell the car in Europe in like 3-4 years from now, I am able to get the same amount of money out of it (in USD) as what I currently pay for it. Technically that would leave me with almost no loss at all, while still being able to drive this car for 3-4 years. It's not happening any time soon unlike we initially thought (our plans only recently changed) but it's still open for the future

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by walile

If you think buying a nice car is losing money, then perhaps you fail to appreciate the finer things in life. Thus, a car is simply a transportation device that gets you from point A to B.

But it can be more than that to some, thus they are not losing money but rather spending money in exchange for positive utility. You also fail to account for the latest passive and active safety improvements that you benefit from your new car. So, it's not just about the bling. If I have wife and kids, I will put them in the 5 series simply because it is one of the safest car today and the bonus being that I will really enjoy driving it.

I am really curious as to why you are here instead of looking for a 92 Honda Civic on Autotrader? This is an honest question and not intended as an insult. Because seriously that sounds more like your cup of tea than the new 3.

Those are great points! Honestly i didn't see it that way either, but you opened me a new perspective...

[morizzle]

Hi folks,

I've been lurking here for a while since reading about the f30. I think the intent of this thread is actually legitimate in providing opinions -- I appreciate the responses and points of views for everyone. I'm also pondering the purchase of the new 328i. My wife and I are in our mid 30s and we gross 150k per year working for the canadian government, we have no debt except a mortgage, we stack away RRSPs and sizeable savings each month and can easily afford the payments and a considerable downpayment if required. But we still struggle with the needs versus wants of life. We consider this car to be a substantial upgrade from what we currently drive and we've been driving our mazdas for 8+ years. I go back and forth... at one moment I'm ready to take the 'plunge' and at another moment i think we need to make more money before spending 50k on a car...

[Yay-Z]

Can't believe we're discussing buying 'needs' not 'wants' on a BMW forum.

Feel like I'm on camryforums.com