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      07-27-2018, 10:24 AM   #23
Sasquartch
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How would there be any devaluation of the engine was repaired correctly. If you sold it down the line then you probably wouldn't even need to make anyone aware of it.
A possible exception might be if a new engine was fitted and the change of serial number comes up on a HPI check might put someone off, equally someone else might consider a new engine a positive thing.

As for losing confidence in the car well any car can throw a fault. The only way to really get round this is to buy new and sell at 3 years when the warranty expires. But that's any car, not just a BMW

Conclusion I have is that BMWs are not anything approaching bulletproof, in fact in some areas are quite fragile. Therefore I'll keep the warranty up on mine which at least gives peace of mind

I too have a N20 and have been changing the oil between services in an attempt to avoid these issues.

They don't make em like they used to unfortunately
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      07-27-2018, 11:58 AM   #24
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I have a three years old 320iN20 that just passed55k. After reading this post extended warranty sounds like a good idea.
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      07-27-2018, 12:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamese93 View Post
What's the story with the 330d engines, I have a 430d and had a 640d gran coupe before, I thought they were bomb proof? Extended service and police thrashing's killing them?
Seems to happen frequently, timing chain randomly snaps and engine fails, remember BMW being informed about an engine knocking, response was come back when it goes bang, which it did 2 weeks later and dumped its oil all over the road in the process. Happens generally around 110k, they do get driven hard but are serviced roughly on time where possible. Warranty on the engines is 120k from what I was told unlike on normal warranty.
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      07-27-2018, 12:16 PM   #26
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Sympathies @ OP
Sucks!!!
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      07-28-2018, 04:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
A couple of slight corrections :

You say that CG have the legal right to attempt repair and if that fails, issue a refund due to the 6 month rule so long as it's established that the car was sold with the fault/was not caused by driver error.

This is incorrect. Under the CRA, it is assumed, unless it can be PROVED otherwise, that a fault that occurs within the first 6 months was 'present or developing' at the time of sale. The onus of any such PROOF falls on the retailer to establish.

You don't have any legal right to compensation for any perceived diminution of value, etc. They could entirely reasonably argue that you've now got a car with a fully rebuilt (or new !) engine, which would therefore add to the value of the car, and thus charge you for 'betterment', if that was the case.

There is no legal right for hire car to be supplied (or paid for), or for them to provide you with alternative means of transport whilst your car is being repaired.
I was aware of the prove rule, trying to be as contrite as possible here rather than spelling out every technicality that in most cases is self evident.

I’m assuming that they will not be able to pass blame onto anyone else and therefore be left with a choice of repair or refund. Which from my current conversations appears to be the likely outcome.

A refund would most likely only be a palateable option for them if the car is beyond repair, although I am still within my rights to push for one depending on how the situation develops.

Obviously if the car had been repaired with a new engine they would not then Offer a refund. As far as I’m aware it’s either or. My point was that I will explore the possibility of a refund before any repair work is undertaken.

I’m also aware I have no legal right to compensation for loss of value, nor was I asking for any. I simply wish to explore the point that having the car repaired by their mechanics is less beneficial to the overall history of the car than having it repaired by bmw mechanics.

Hire car, also true. But I have asked for a loan car and they are going to provide one.

It may not always be ‘your legal right’ but life is not binary. If you don’t ask you don’t get.

As mentioned so far, car giant customer service has put BMW to shame.
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      07-28-2018, 04:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff123 View Post
I don’t think that it will devalue your car at all. If the faults are rectified in the correct manner, it’s the same as any other repair on the car. It’s not part of your service history, it’s a repair.

As for selling it after the repair, see what has to be done to it and then see how it goes afterwards.

I had an A4 engine blow out a few years ago and it had to be fully rebuilt. The actual car was fine, but the psychological effect was worse. I was just waiting for the same thing to happen again for the next two years.
Yeah part ex might be a good idea.

I have to say though that if I was buying a car and I was made aware it had recently had a new engine fitted, but not by BMW, I’d be doubly wary.

Same principle if I was to part ex. I might have to see if I can get some time limited guarantee for the works and then look into covering the engine in some way.

Another question I have is whether the failure could have damaged the transmission at all?
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      07-28-2018, 04:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripen View Post
I have a three years old 320iN20 that just passed55k. After reading this post extended warranty sounds like a good idea.
I’d say so!
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      07-28-2018, 04:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquartch View Post
How would there be any devaluation of the engine was repaired correctly. If you sold it down the line then you probably wouldn't even need to make anyone aware of it.
A possible exception might be if a new engine was fitted and the change of serial number comes up on a HPI check might put someone off, equally someone else might consider a new engine a positive thing.

As for losing confidence in the car well any car can throw a fault. The only way to really get round this is to buy new and sell at 3 years when the warranty expires. But that's any car, not just a BMW

Conclusion I have is that BMWs are not anything approaching bulletproof, in fact in some areas are quite fragile. Therefore I'll keep the warranty up on mine which at least gives peace of mind

I too have a N20 and have been changing the oil between services in an attempt to avoid these issues.

They don't make em like they used to unfortunately
Fair points.

It’s subjective but for me it’s more to do with perception of quality of repair. Especially in a sales scenario where even the slightest thing can put a buyer off.

Who repaired the engine?

Car giant.

BMW.

Which one sounds better?
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      07-28-2018, 09:56 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham328 View Post
Seems to happen frequently, timing chain randomly snaps and engine fails, remember BMW being informed about an engine knocking, response was come back when it goes bang, which it did 2 weeks later and dumped its oil all over the road in the process. Happens generally around 110k, they do get driven hard but are serviced roughly on time where possible. Warranty on the engines is 120k from what I was told unlike on normal warranty.
never heard of this being a common problem on the 30d engine before?

Source/links?
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      07-28-2018, 01:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooded View Post
never heard of this being a common problem on the 30d engine before?

Source/links?
I do some media work for local police force, the traffic cars have been eating engines for years usually around same miles. Not all die but quite a few do and have been for the last 10 years. Been a few caught fire in other parts of the UK as a result of engine failing if oil hits turbo/exhaust.

Was told timing chains snapping was the route cause of the failures and nothing can do to predict it happening either. Last car to eat an engine here was a 64 plate X5, newer cars not reached those miles yet so hopefully BMW has put an end to it failing, must cost them a fortune on warranty replacements! An officer told me the sound it makes when it happens is rather unpleasant!
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      07-28-2018, 01:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham328 View Post
I do some media work for local police force, the traffic cars have been eating engines for years usually around same miles. Not all die but quite a few do and have been for the last 10 years. Been a few caught fire in other parts of the UK as a result of engine failing if oil hits turbo/exhaust.

Was told timing chains snapping was the route cause of the failures and nothing can do to predict it happening either. Last car to eat an engine here was a 64 plate X5, newer cars not reached those miles yet so hopefully BMW has put an end to it failing, must cost them a fortune on warranty replacements! An officer told me the sound it makes when it happens is rather unpleasant!
It must be just a police car thing then with the timing chains.
I've seen 'a few' cases of the n57 engine cars catching fire recently, but it's very rare to read of timing chain failure on them, and Ive frequented many BMW forums for quite a few years. Engine failure seems an increased risk on the n20 petrol engine and in the past timing chain failure was common on the n47 20d (particularly 2007-2009 cars) to the point it was featured on watchdog. Quite a lot of N57 timing chain failures would have been reported over the years on the BMW forums if it was indeed a common fault with the 30d.
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      07-28-2018, 01:51 PM   #34
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Never heard about 3.0d engines but for years the 2.0i has seemed the most unreliable bmw engine from many threads on failures.
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      07-28-2018, 02:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyJawa View Post
Never heard about 3.0d engines but for years the 2.0i has seemed the most unreliable bmw engine from many threads on failures.
There have been a few N57 3.0d failures reported. Nothing like the N47 rate of failure. At least one forum member who works in the trade has reported seeing them through the garage. Does appear the 4-pot engines (petrol and diesel) are a lot more stressed in use.
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      07-28-2018, 02:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
There have been a few N57 3.0d failures reported. Nothing like the N47 rate of failure. At least one forum member who works in the trade has reported seeing them through the garage. Does appear the 4-pot engines (petrol and diesel) are a lot more stressed in use.
I guess the way the police use the cars stresses the 3.0d a lot too.
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      08-06-2018, 05:27 AM   #37
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Quick update as of today

Car Giant are accepting liability for the engine failure. Had a bit of a wrangle with BMW trying to charge 2k for investigative works, CG have now agreed to cover some of the cost with the rest being written off.

Essentially at no point during the investigation process was I asked where the car was purchased from, but I was given an ultimatum of 'We need to strip the engine in order to file a report and submit a goodwill claim', with the alternative being me footing the bill for any repair works. I agreed to the work on that basis, but rather obviously would never have done so if I'd known that buying outside the dealership system (apparently) invalidates any possible goodwill claims.

I'd still suggest it doesn't exempt BMW from responsibility seeing as it appears to be a rare but known about manufacturing fault with their engine, but as has already been pointed out here if one company finds out the other could be responsible it will do its best to walk away. I think if I was really on it I'd be getting legal involved but frankly after six weeks of this I just want it resolved.

Next steps are for CG to recover the shell and engine (will need to be done seperately apparently as BMW are not prepared to drop the engine back in and incur more cost), get a loan car sorted out and then wait and see what they want to do about possible repair.

This is obviously a good development, but I still have concerns about whether the clutch/transmission could have been damaged because of the failure, plus also the quality of the repair works that might be undertaken and where they are going to source a replacement engine from.

Again, I will say that CG customer service has been excellent.
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      08-09-2018, 02:58 AM   #38
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This another example of the same problem.

https://www.bmwexpert.co.uk/2017/07/...hrust-bearing/
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      08-09-2018, 03:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabidegiraffe View Post
Quick update as of today

Car Giant are accepting liability for the engine failure. Had a bit of a wrangle with BMW trying to charge 2k for investigative works, CG have now agreed to cover some of the cost with the rest being written off.

Essentially at no point during the investigation process was I asked where the car was purchased from, but I was given an ultimatum of 'We need to strip the engine in order to file a report and submit a goodwill claim', with the alternative being me footing the bill for any repair works. I agreed to the work on that basis, but rather obviously would never have done so if I'd known that buying outside the dealership system (apparently) invalidates any possible goodwill claims.

I'd still suggest it doesn't exempt BMW from responsibility seeing as it appears to be a rare but known about manufacturing fault with their engine, but as has already been pointed out here if one company finds out the other could be responsible it will do its best to walk away. I think if I was really on it I'd be getting legal involved but frankly after six weeks of this I just want it resolved.

Next steps are for CG to recover the shell and engine (will need to be done seperately apparently as BMW are not prepared to drop the engine back in and incur more cost), get a loan car sorted out and then wait and see what they want to do about possible repair.

This is obviously a good development, but I still have concerns about whether the clutch/transmission could have been damaged because of the failure, plus also the quality of the repair works that might be undertaken and where they are going to source a replacement engine from.

Again, I will say that CG customer service has been excellent.
Sounds like progress - best of luck.

Have you asked CG, if they are confident in teaching an outcome, if they will swap you into another similar car?

Surely their network is large enough to have another and if the current car is fixed perfectly they can just resell it.

I suggest this on the basis you're unlikely to want to keep the car anyway now.
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      08-26-2018, 04:45 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG_M3CP View Post
Sounds like progress - best of luck.

Have you asked CG, if they are confident in teaching an outcome, if they will swap you into another similar car?

Surely their network is large enough to have another and if the current car is fixed perfectly they can just resell it.

I suggest this on the basis you're unlikely to want to keep the car anyway now.
Didn’t really think about this.

I will say though that the car isn’t particularly common for them in that it’s a petrol touring and most of their equivalent stock is diesel. The cars they did have on their site at last check that were similar did not have the same spec or m trim.

Current status is positive - rebuild rather than replacement of engine and replacement of turbo underway. 12 month/12k warranty. Will be getting an additional warranty to cover - I’ve assumed extended warranty is off the table due to work being carried out by non BMW workshop? Will probably have to be 3rd party, if anyone’s got any recommendations that would be greatly appreciated.

They are also checking the clutch and transmission, with a view to repair/replace if anything is amiss.

I was checking out a 16 plate 330i at a dealer in Leicester but have decided that I’m going to stick with the car for now - I could cover the outlay in trade and finance but on reflection do I really want to be shelling out another 10k just because I can? Money could be better spent elsewhere. Tempting tho.

Hopefully will have the car back in the next couple of weeks. Will be good to drive something other than the entry level seat Ibiza I have bee supplied with as a loan car. It’s so bad. Feels like the entire thing has been machined out of one solid lump of plastic and metal. But at least I have wheels. And just in time for the change of weather!
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