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      12-31-2017, 12:15 AM   #1
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WTF? Icing on the inside of windshield/window?

First time it happened is last winter. After a car wash, I went to gym, parked outside. After finishing gym, I found out icing on the rear windshield. Didn't think it was a problem. Turned on rear windshield heating, but saw water dripping down. Finally, realize it was icing on the inside...damn.huge mass to clean up especially in a coupe! Had to climb back there and the windshield angle is terrible to reach..

I did not know what cause it until this June. I found out it was a leak! After my roof wrap, I did not seal the shark fin antenna properly. Therefore water is leaking into the cabin form moisture.

However, I bought windshield sealant to seal up the shark fin this June. Never any leak no more.

Then sh1t happen again this week!!! It became really cold this week in Ontario. below -15 C.
After parking outside for a few hours. The rear windshield again frost and iced inside!! Driver side front windshield and side window. rear 2 small windows. sunroof edge. all iced! wtf!!!

For the front, I can use the defroster blower. But rear, I just can't do anything without making a mess. However, I parked underground overnight. The icing is gone next morning.

I don't know what cause the icing. I bought a moisture grabber bag from homedepot and placed it at rear windshield. Did not help....

I googled a bit. Someone said heat core leak? leaking coolant into cabin? But I did not smell anything funny. Or is the shark fin seal broke?

Help!
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      12-31-2017, 12:51 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
First time it happened is last winter. After a car wash, I went to gym, parked outside. After finishing gym, I found out icing on the rear windshield. Didn't think it was a problem. Turned on rear windshield heating, but saw water dripping down. Finally, realize it was icing on the inside...damn.huge mass to clean up especially in a coupe! Had to climb back there and the windshield angle is terrible to reach..

I did not know what cause it until this June. I found out it was a leak! After my roof wrap, I did not seal the shark fin antenna properly. Therefore water is leaking into the cabin form moisture.

However, I bought windshield sealant to seal up the shark fin this June. Never any leak no more.

Then sh1t happen again this week!!! It became really cold this week in Ontario. below -15 C.
After parking outside for a few hours. The rear windshield again frost and iced inside!! Driver side front windshield and side window. rear 2 small windows. sunroof edge. all iced! wtf!!!

For the front, I can use the defroster blower. But rear, I just can't do anything without making a mess. However, I parked underground overnight. The icing is gone next morning.

I don't know what cause the icing. I bought a moisture grabber bag from homedepot and placed it at rear windshield. Did not help....

I googled a bit. Someone said heat core leak? leaking coolant into cabin? But I did not smell anything funny. Or is the shark fin seal broke?

Help!
You do realize what happens when cool temps hit hot temps? What makes you believe that condensation only happens on the outside of the glass?

Suggest you look up dew point on Wikipedia.

When you have hot interior and very cold exterior, this is not uncommon. Dew will even form inside your house on the glass under the correct conditions.

Under extreme conditions like this, its good to not have your heater and defroster going full blast all the time, especially the last few minutes of your trip.

Does not hurt to let the interior warm air escape out of your car when you park for hours instead of quickly running inside. But warm, humid air in the interior and very heated glass with extreme cold outside is a sure fire way to find yourself in this mess.
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Last edited by IK6SPEED; 12-31-2017 at 01:01 AM.
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      12-31-2017, 12:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
First time it happened is last winter. After a car wash, I went to gym, parked outside. After finishing gym, I found out icing on the rear windshield. Didn't think it was a problem. Turned on rear windshield heating, but saw water dripping down. Finally, realize it was icing on the inside...damn.huge mass to clean up especially in a coupe! Had to climb back there and the windshield angle is terrible to reach..

I did not know what cause it until this June. I found out it was a leak! After my roof wrap, I did not seal the shark fin antenna properly. Therefore water is leaking into the cabin form moisture.

However, I bought windshield sealant to seal up the shark fin this June. Never any leak no more.

Then sh1t happen again this week!!! It became really cold this week in Ontario. below -15 C.
After parking outside for a few hours. The rear windshield again frost and iced inside!! Driver side front windshield and side window. rear 2 small windows. sunroof edge. all iced! wtf!!!

For the front, I can use the defroster blower. But rear, I just can't do anything without making a mess. However, I parked underground overnight. The icing is gone next morning.

I don't know what cause the icing. I bought a moisture grabber bag from homedepot and placed it at rear windshield. Did not help....

I googled a bit. Someone said heat core leak? leaking coolant into cabin? But I did not smell anything funny. Or is the shark fin seal broke?

Help!
You do realize what happens when cool temps hit hot temps? What makes you believe that condensation only happens on the outside of the glass?

Suggest you look up dew point on Wikipedia.

When you have hot interior and very cold exterior, this is not uncommon. Dew will even form inside the glass in your house under the correct conditions.

Under extreme conditions like this, its good to not have your heater and defroster going full blast all the time, especially the last few minutes of your trip.

Does not hurt to let the interior warm air out of your car when you park for hours instead of quickly running inside. But warm, humid air in the interior and very heated glass with extreme cold outside is a sure fire way to find yourself in this mess.
Ok. I will try tomorrow
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      12-31-2017, 01:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
First time it happened is last winter. After a car wash, I went to gym, parked outside. After finishing gym, I found out icing on the rear windshield. Didn't think it was a problem. Turned on rear windshield heating, but saw water dripping down. Finally, realize it was icing on the inside...damn.huge mass to clean up especially in a coupe! Had to climb back there and the windshield angle is terrible to reach..

I did not know what cause it until this June. I found out it was a leak! After my roof wrap, I did not seal the shark fin antenna properly. Therefore water is leaking into the cabin form moisture.

However, I bought windshield sealant to seal up the shark fin this June. Never any leak no more.

Then sh1t happen again this week!!! It became really cold this week in Ontario. below -15 C.
After parking outside for a few hours. The rear windshield again frost and iced inside!! Driver side front windshield and side window. rear 2 small windows. sunroof edge. all iced! wtf!!!

For the front, I can use the defroster blower. But rear, I just can't do anything without making a mess. However, I parked underground overnight. The icing is gone next morning.

I don't know what cause the icing. I bought a moisture grabber bag from homedepot and placed it at rear windshield. Did not help....

I googled a bit. Someone said heat core leak? leaking coolant into cabin? But I did not smell anything funny. Or is the shark fin seal broke?

Help!
You do realize what happens when cool temps hit hot temps? What makes you believe that condensation only happens on the outside of the glass?

Suggest you look up dew point on Wikipedia.

When you have hot interior and very cold exterior, this is not uncommon. Dew will even form inside the glass in your house under the correct conditions.

Under extreme conditions like this, its good to not have your heater and defroster going full blast all the time, especially the last few minutes of your trip.

Does not hurt to let the interior warm air escape out of your car when you park for hours instead of quickly running inside. But warm, humid air in the interior and very heated glass with extreme cold outside is a sure fire way to find yourself in this mess.
But if what u said is true. Why other cars don't have this frost inside? I don't believe everybody do your practice. I can't find any other car in the lot having my issue
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      12-31-2017, 01:30 AM   #5
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Try to get rid of all the moisture you can. Tap your feet together before getting in the car to get as little snow as possible. Before getting off the car drain any water left on the carpet and it should help.
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      12-31-2017, 05:02 AM   #6
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Do you disable the AC in the winter and run only in "heater" mode?

That could contribute to the increased humidity in the cabin as the AC also dehumidifies the air.

For the past 4 years on both of my BMWs I've left it in auto with a temperature of 21C (70F) and didn't have to change it or have to fiddle with the controls.
The only exception to this was in summer when first getting in the car and hitting "MAX AC" or in winter when i make good use of the seat heaters
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      12-31-2017, 07:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
For the past 4 years on both of my BMWs I've left it in auto with a temperature of 21C (70F) and didn't have to change it or have to fiddle with the controls.
The only exception to this was in summer when first getting in the car and hitting "MAX AC" or in winter when i make good use of the seat heaters
Same here
Absolutely no issues within the range from -25 to +30 Celsius outside.

To topicstarter - another reason for higher humidity may be old and dirty cabin air filter, it's possibly time to replace it.
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      12-31-2017, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
For the past 4 years on both of my BMWs I've left it in auto with a temperature of 21C (70F) and didn't have to change it or have to fiddle with the controls.
+1. I have noticed something in the recent cold snap in the US, that there's not much air from the fan for quite a while. I figured out that the fan won't push much air until the engine has warmed up enough so that the air that it pushes is warm enough to be beneficial. At an average temperature of 0F that takes a lot longer than I'm used to at the usual daytime average of 25F in my area. I can tell when the engine is getting warm by a sudden increase in the fan speed and feeling the warm air it's pushing, long before the oil temperature gauge has moved at all.

As to the source of the moisture for the OP, in the winter the dew point and relative humidity are very low, so that removes condensation as a source. The remaining possibilities are a leak and the breath of passengers. If moisture appears when there's no one in the car that narrows it down to a leak.
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      12-31-2017, 12:43 PM   #9
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Not exactly. It's -29C outside right now in Calgary, and the humidity is 82%. Get a bunch of snow on the matts, let it thaw in the warm, and it never dries out.

That will give you a tone of moisture inside your car.
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      12-31-2017, 03:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
As to the source of the moisture for the OP, in the winter the dew point and relative humidity are very low, so that removes condensation as a source. The remaining possibilities are a leak and the breath of passengers. If moisture appears when there's no one in the car that narrows it down to a leak.
In the Winter with low temps, the actual name changes to frost point, but no virtually no one uses the term or knows what it is.
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      12-31-2017, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Not exactly. It's -29C outside right now in Calgary, and the humidity is 82%. Get a bunch of snow on the matts, let it thaw in the warm, and it never dries out.

That will give you a tone of moisture inside your car.
What’s the dew/frost point? Humidity at -29° being 82% doesn’t mean there’s a lot of moisture in the air.

The dew point for those values is -31°.

I think your leak is back.
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      12-31-2017, 04:03 PM   #12
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That's why you can't rely on relative humidity alone to determine how much moisture is in the air. The old saying 'It's not the heat, it's the humidity' is more accurately expressed 'It's not the heat, it's the dew point'. Outside my door right now the temperature is 4F, the humidity 52%, but there's no frost forming, as the dew point is -10F.
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      01-01-2018, 07:42 PM   #13
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What’s the dew/frost point? Humidity at -29° being 82% doesn’t mean there’s a lot of moisture in the air.

The dew point for those values is -31°.

I think your leak is back.
*sigh*

Lead a horse to water.....
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      01-02-2018, 01:50 PM   #14
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*sigh*

Lead a horse to water.....
Not sure why you quoted me and dissed me with the comment when we are saying the same thing...unless you don’t understand the difference between ACTUAL temperature - which you don’t show at all - and the “Feels Like” windchill temperature, which you do show, but unfortunately does not apply to inanimate objects. Like cars.

Drink up.
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      01-02-2018, 03:01 PM   #15
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“Feels Like” windchill temperature...does not apply to inanimate objects. Like cars.
Or water vapor.
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      01-02-2018, 06:16 PM   #16
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Or water vapor.
It’s not easy being us....
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      01-02-2018, 08:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
Not sure why you quoted me and dissed me with the comment when we are saying the same thing...unless you don’t understand the difference between ACTUAL temperature - which you don’t show at all - and the “Feels Like” windchill temperature, which you do show, but unfortunately does not apply to inanimate objects. Like cars.

Drink up.
I know exactly what wind chill is. The real temp was 2 degrees, but apparently changed to feels like as I snapped screen shot.
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      01-03-2018, 11:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
What’s the dew/frost point? Humidity at -29° being 82% doesn’t mean there’s a lot of moisture in the air.

The dew point for those values is -31°.

I think your leak is back.
Last time I checked my car is a smidge warmer than -31 once I turn the heat on. Snow melts, inside gets moist and gamey, and an hour stop at a store ends up with all my windows frosted up inside.

Nobody said his car at -30C was frosted inside. Couple in a trip to the car wash, and you've now sucked in air at 100% humidity into the cabin. What the OP is experiencing is 100% normal for the outside conditions, as well as what he did (car wash).
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      01-03-2018, 12:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
I know exactly what wind chill is. The real temp was 2 degrees, but apparently changed to feels like as I snapped screen shot.
Um, no. Not possible. Check for yourself

http://www.calculator.net/dew-point-...y=85&x=87&y=18

If those were Fahrenheit temps with 85% humidity and 7° F Dew Point then air temp was 10.6° F.

If Celsius, then the air temp was 9.4° C.

Also, his trip to the car wash was the First time he got ice on his inside rear window, and he discovered his leak and fixed it. No car wash this time, just ice on the inside.

Last edited by paul e; 01-03-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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      01-03-2018, 03:29 PM   #20
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Sounds like a leak. Might be worth considering a moisture soaking silica pack like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dry-Packs-I.../dp/B0025OO8DO

You can reheat it in the oven. Leaks no water. Decent absorption for use in a car. Place on your dash when you exit and park.

Another thought would be to get some leak detection spray. Usually comes in concentrate form so you add water with it in a spray bottle. Spray strategically over the windshield and use a UV light inside the interior to check for leaks. Broken seals on the windshield are an easy and cheap fix by a specialist. The windshield of course would be removed and resealed.

My two dollars worth.
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      01-03-2018, 04:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Last time I checked my car is a smidge warmer than -31 once I turn the heat on. Snow melts, inside gets moist and gamey, and an hour stop at a store ends up with all my windows frosted up inside.

Nobody said his car at -30C was frosted inside. Couple in a trip to the car wash, and you've now sucked in air at 100% humidity into the cabin. What the OP is experiencing is 100% normal for the outside conditions, as well as what he did (car wash).
Exactly

As I noted in my original post, heating the interior, and especially turning the glass into a super heater, causes the condensation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
Um, no. Not possible. Check for yourself

http://www.calculator.net/dew-point-...y=85&x=87&y=18

If those were Fahrenheit temps with 85% humidity and 7° F Dew Point then air temp was 10.6° F.

If Celsius, then the air temp was 9.4° C.

Also, his trip to the car wash was the First time he got ice on his inside rear window, and he discovered his leak and fixed it. No car wash this time, just ice on the inside.
The temps were F unless you’ve been asleep and think it was 48 F in Canada this week.

Take it up with the Weather Channel.
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      01-03-2018, 05:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Exactly

As I noted in my original post, heating the interior, and especially turning the glass into a super heater, causes the condensation.



The temps were F unless you’ve been asleep and think it was 48 F in Canada this week.

Take it up with the Weather Channel.
Um,,, where in earth did you get 48°? Are you just making stuff up? Or do you have reading comprehension issues?

I have given answers in both C and F as you are obviously mathmatically challenged.

Did you run the formula? Because no way it was 2° with the values YOU posted.

Take it up with Euclid.

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