F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > MST N20/N26 Intake Installed -- hesitation and CEL
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-15-2019, 11:26 AM   #1
5mall5nail5
Not stock
5mall5nail5's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
574
Posts

Drives: E34 525i Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 5mall5nail5
MST N20/N26 Intake Installed -- hesitation and CEL

Hey All - received my MST intake from Kies just Friday. Ran home, pulled the stock unit and installed the MST. The sound is of course awesome - whoosh whoosh. However right away I noticed a little rougher running. I attributed it initially to the fact that the steel intake box is bolted through the rubber grommet and could transfer some vibration back into the car.

I noticed a hesitation and dip in RPM a couple times while idling in park. Then this morning I noticed a slight hesitation as I pull away from a light. Yesterday I pulled the lower tube out of the stock turbo inlet, checked everything, all tight, good fit, MAF in correctly, vacuum line on nipple fitting on upper tube (N26), filter clamped on tube in air box properly. I've built a pretty wild turbo BMW previously so I trust myself to install a CAI but I just double checked everything. All good. Drove a bit more and CEL comes on.

I drove it around about 15 miles or so in total I suspect before the CEL came on. I pulled the codes w/ Torque App - P0171 and P0172 both. Yeah, definite confusion caused by the intake. I had done plugs on the car about 1K miles ago and replaced the stock air filter at the same time so I know there's no issue there. Car ran 1,000% the day of installing the intake and never had a CEL in all of the 38k miles on it.

When I got home today I pulled the MST intake out and put the stock unit back in. Cleared the codes. No more RPM dip/hesitation. I am on 100% stock engine - the only mods on the car are M Performance brakes and cosmetic stuff.

Bummed - going to have to try and get in touch with Kies and return.
__________________
2015 BSM 328i Sport Line - BSM
2015 BSM X1 M Sport - BSM
1992 525i
1987 325e
Appreciate 0
      12-15-2019, 11:08 PM   #2
cedaj
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: F30 328i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

If you're going to get in contact with the seller, don't say that it was installed and tested. Then you won't be able to return it.
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2019, 07:39 AM   #3
5mall5nail5
Not stock
5mall5nail5's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
574
Posts

Drives: E34 525i Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 5mall5nail5
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedaj View Post
If you're going to get in contact with the seller, don't say that it was installed and tested. Then you won't be able to return it.
I contacted them - it's Kies Motorsports. I am not one to mislead anyone, etc. I feel comfortable that they'll help me out considering the product just won't work on my car. It's one thing to have lost power or an annoying, subjective attribute about it, but installed properly an intake should not cause the car to have drive-ability issues and check engine lights. So, we'll see what they say - I ran it for only like 20 miles if that, the product looks new and has no marks on it (I am super careful with stuff).

That said, I drove to work today with the stock intake back on and codes cleared - no hesitation off idle, no RPM drop/semi stall. No whoosh noise, but, I guess I can live without it.
__________________
2015 BSM 328i Sport Line - BSM
2015 BSM X1 M Sport - BSM
1992 525i
1987 325e
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2019, 12:56 PM   #4
floridaorange
Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
1895
Rep
2,240
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

Another intake story, and not the last I'm sure. Glad you got it sorted mate.
__________________
Stage 2 BM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
Appreciate 0
      12-17-2019, 08:10 AM   #5
dfwF30bmw
Private
United_States
15
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 2016 328i 6MT Track Handling
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

I installed the Injen Evolution this Saturday morning. Its working good and no codes. It does seem to have a little more throttle response because I am over revving the clutch slightly more than before!
__________________
2016 328i 6MT, M Sport Brakes, Suspension, Steering and Track Handling Package
MODS: BM3 Stage 2/93 Octane OTS, Active Autowerke BMW F Chassis Intercooler, VSRF Catless Down Pipe, GFB DV+, Injen Evolution Intake, Red Line MTL for Transmission, NGK SILZKBR8D8S gapped at .24", Dinan Shockware, Cooper ZEON RS3-G1's and Hawk HPS 5.0 Brake Pads all the way around.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2019, 05:25 AM   #6
David328M-Sport
Brigadier General
Australia
84
Rep
3,565
Posts

Drives: F30 M-Sport 328i Estoril Blue
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia

iTrader: (0)

I installed my MST cold air intake plus the MST turbo inlet pipe for my N20. Apart from dropping 2 nuts - yep, I had to run to the hardware twice as I couldn't find them - the removal of the stock bits and after successful install of the MST, the car did not bring up any codes, CEL and did not hesitate at all.

After driving the car for a number of kms, the ECU feels like it's learning its newly installed bits and is feeling rather responsive, but that could be my excitement with the upgrade.

The whoosh sound is somewhat muted in Comfort mode, but really makes itself known in Sport mode. Having lots of fun with my new upgrade.
__________________
328i M-Sport, Estoril Blue, Carbon XP 35 Tint, front heated seats, black Dakota, Sports Suspension, Anthracite Headliner, HUD, Pro Nav, Sunroof, hk 600w, Bi-Xenon, 19" 403M wheels, Reversing Camera, DAB+, Xenon, BT Ext Connect, MST turbo intake pipe, MST Cold Air Intake, JB4 on Map 2 with Catless DP produces awesome performance in Sport.
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2019, 11:30 AM   #7
rjd_F30
Brigadier General
rjd_F30's Avatar
United_States
1674
Rep
3,369
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

These things happen somewhat frequently after intake installs. Not sure why, but you're far from the first with this issue. Then for some they work flawlessly. Sorry you couldn't be one of those customers!
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: 2013 335i 6MT RWD | Past: FBO 2013 328i xDrive 8AT |
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2019, 12:22 PM   #8
floridaorange
Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
1895
Rep
2,240
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't a custom tune help?

I'm confused why custom tunes aren't spoken about more on this board. Meanwhile everyone buying OTS tunes. Do our computers really adjust to the OTS tunes well enough ?
__________________
Stage 2 BM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2019, 01:59 PM   #9
5mall5nail5
Not stock
5mall5nail5's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
574
Posts

Drives: E34 525i Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 5mall5nail5
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdnyy224 View Post
These things happen somewhat frequently after intake installs. Not sure why, but you're far from the first with this issue. Then for some they work flawlessly. Sorry you couldn't be one of those customers!
Yeah - to all those posting here success, are you N20 or N26? I wonder if N26 being SULEV is more sensitive.

Do you guys disconnect the battery during install or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
Wouldn't a custom tune help?

I'm confused why custom tunes aren't spoken about more on this board. Meanwhile everyone buying OTS tunes. Do our computers really adjust to the OTS tunes well enough ?
Sure it would except I don't want to tune the car yet - just an intake.
__________________
2015 BSM 328i Sport Line - BSM
2015 BSM X1 M Sport - BSM
1992 525i
1987 325e
Appreciate 1
      09-30-2020, 12:55 AM   #10
Javiii786
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: '16 BMW 328i
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Miami,FL

iTrader: (0)

Had the same problem with my Injen intake. It was the first mod i did on the N26 and ran great for a couple months until i went FBO (Downpipe,chargepipe,intercooler,GFB-DV+,2step colder plugs, and muffler delete and BM3 Stage 2 tune) Since i did the rest of the mods all in a couple days it was hard to diagnose.
Having the same problems with rough idles and hesitation at lights for a couple days & figured the ECU needed some time to adjust. Until the car started shutting off at red lights and would have to hold the revs up so it wouldnt shut off. For some reason it never occurred to me to unplug the MAF sensor so i did and it fixed all of my problems. Felt like a new car. The 1 drawback is that i had a CEL for the unplugged MAF so i contacted BM3 and they were able to clear that code permanently how they do for the o2 sensor CEL.

TLDR: I was having rough idle/hesitation with Injen intake on the N26 and unplugging the MAF sensor fixed those problems
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2020, 09:15 AM   #11
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
12660
Rep
136,863
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javiii786 View Post
Had the same problem with my Injen intake. It was the first mod i did on the N26 and ran great for a couple months until i went FBO (Downpipe,chargepipe,intercooler,GFB-DV+,2step colder plugs, and muffler delete and BM3 Stage 2 tune) Since i did the rest of the mods all in a couple days it was hard to diagnose.
Having the same problems with rough idles and hesitation at lights for a couple days & figured the ECU needed some time to adjust. Until the car started shutting off at red lights and would have to hold the revs up so it wouldnt shut off. For some reason it never occurred to me to unplug the MAF sensor so i did and it fixed all of my problems. Felt like a new car. The 1 drawback is that i had a CEL for the unplugged MAF so i contacted BM3 and they were able to clear that code permanently how they do for the o2 sensor CEL.

TLDR: I was having rough idle/hesitation with Injen intake on the N26 and unplugging the MAF sensor fixed those problems

Glad to hear you took care of it. Most of the times the problem is fixed by cleaning the sensors, but if that does not work unplugging it does the trick
__________________
Check Out Our Sale Section!
Phone 725-221-5267 || website www.x-ph.com

Appreciate 0
      09-30-2020, 03:17 PM   #12
5mall5nail5
Not stock
5mall5nail5's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
574
Posts

Drives: E34 525i Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 5mall5nail5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javiii786 View Post
Had the same problem with my Injen intake. It was the first mod i did on the N26 and ran great for a couple months until i went FBO (Downpipe,chargepipe,intercooler,GFB-DV+,2step colder plugs, and muffler delete and BM3 Stage 2 tune) Since i did the rest of the mods all in a couple days it was hard to diagnose.
Having the same problems with rough idles and hesitation at lights for a couple days & figured the ECU needed some time to adjust. Until the car started shutting off at red lights and would have to hold the revs up so it wouldnt shut off. For some reason it never occurred to me to unplug the MAF sensor so i did and it fixed all of my problems. Felt like a new car. The 1 drawback is that i had a CEL for the unplugged MAF so i contacted BM3 and they were able to clear that code permanently how they do for the o2 sensor CEL.

TLDR: I was having rough idle/hesitation with Injen intake on the N26 and unplugging the MAF sensor fixed those problems
That doesn't seem like a proper fix at all... now your car runs open loop all the time...
__________________
2015 BSM 328i Sport Line - BSM
2015 BSM X1 M Sport - BSM
1992 525i
1987 325e
Appreciate 1
      10-07-2020, 06:55 PM   #13
Kel918
Private First Class
25
Rep
123
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 328ix
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: New jersey

iTrader: (1)

I read on the forum that a lot of people where having the same issue after installing an air intake. Their solution was just to unplug the maf and that the car would actually run better. So I went disconnected the maf sensor, made a custom intake and my car runs faster and it's smoother on the top end + my mpg is a little better. I have the n26 so for the vacuum line on the upper tube I just put a plastic tube and wrapped it with the air filter paper I had from the stock air filter.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2020, 09:14 PM   #14
Javiii786
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: '16 BMW 328i
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Miami,FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Glad to hear you took care of it. Most of the times the problem is fixed by cleaning the sensors, but if that does not work unplugging it does the trick
I tried cleaning the old MAF sensor and also tried a brand new one and the problem was still occurring.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2020, 07:21 PM   #15
5mall5nail5
Not stock
5mall5nail5's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
574
Posts

Drives: E34 525i Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 5mall5nail5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
I read on the forum that a lot of people where having the same issue after installing an air intake. Their solution was just to unplug the maf and that the car would actually run better. So I went disconnected the maf sensor, made a custom intake and my car runs faster and it's smoother on the top end + my mpg is a little better. I have the n26 so for the vacuum line on the upper tube I just put a plastic tube and wrapped it with the air filter paper I had from the stock air filter.
While I wish this were a proper fix, it's not. The car uses the MAF sensor for metering the air coming into the engine. Without that sensor, the engine runs "open loop" or, in other words, since it cannot tell the mass of the air, it just runs a conservative amount of fuel and timing that should satisfy all conditions. Since air density changes with elevation, temperature, and humidity, that means the car now runs in a mode that will be safe at 0 ft above sea level AND 10,000 ft above sea level... this means it is by no way, shape, or form, going to yield better fuel economy or power for that matter.

This is tuning 101 - you need to know RPM and load, and since BMW uses the MAF sensor to determine the load, you now have no load reference and thus have a fault-mode tune running.
__________________
2015 BSM 328i Sport Line - BSM
2015 BSM X1 M Sport - BSM
1992 525i
1987 325e
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2020, 10:00 PM   #16
Kel918
Private First Class
25
Rep
123
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 328ix
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: New jersey

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
While I wish this were a proper fix, it's not. The car uses the MAF sensor for metering the air coming into the engine. Without that sensor, the engine runs "open loop" or, in other words, since it cannot tell the mass of the air, it just runs a conservative amount of fuel and timing that should satisfy all conditions. Since air density changes with elevation, temperature, and humidity, that means the car now runs in a mode that will be safe at 0 ft above sea level AND 10,000 ft above sea level... this means it is by no way, shape, or form, going to yield better fuel economy or power for that matter.

This is tuning 101 - you need to know RPM and load, and since BMW uses the MAF sensor to determine the load, you now have no load reference and thus have a fault-mode tune running.
yeah I understand that completely, and again it doesn't change the fact that the car runs better, smoother and I'm getting better mpg. I drive to work on eco mode and the car feels as if I was driving in comfort. I would suggest to disconnect your maf sensor and do a custom 3 inch intake and then comment on your results. Also my co-worker has a new audi tt-rs and that car doesn't even have a maf sensor
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2020, 11:56 PM   #17
sqwinny
First Lieutenant
United_States
130
Rep
331
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Miami

iTrader: (1)

Does it change if you go back to the stock airbox? genuinely curious
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:25 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST