[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mestes1999

I've heard that these engines are underrated many times as well, but don't you think if they were actually producing more power, BMW would say so, simply from a marketing perspective?

Nope, you have insurance rates to consider. The S4 weighs about the same as the E39 M5 and is just as quick as that 4,000 pound car, which had 400 hp. I've seen dyno runs of that motor that are over the 333hp rating, at the wheels. This is just the current trend of the German manufacturers to grossly underrate their hp.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Nope, you have insurance rates to consider. The S4 weighs about the same as the E39 M5 and is just as quick as that 4,000 pound car, which had 400 hp. I've seen dyno runs of that motor that are over the 333hp rating, at the wheels. This is just the current trend of the German manufacturers to grossly underrate their hp.

Which is a concept learned from the muscle car days of '65-70. You would strap the V8s down and find they all made lots more power than claimed for insurance purposes.

[mestes1999]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Which is a concept learned from the muscle car days of '65-70. You would strap the V8s down and find they all made lots more power than claimed for insurance purposes.

The insurance increase from my previous car to my M3 was $15 / month, so I can't imagine saying a 335i has 20 more HP would make much difference.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by mestes1999

The insurance increase from my previous car to my M3 was $15 / month, so I can't imagine saying a 335i has 20 more HP would make much difference.

It depends on a lot of factors, your insurer being one of them.

When I bought my Viggen, my insurance had it as a run of the mill Saab 9-3, safe-not a car to be stolen. My insurance was cheap.

A friend buys the same car, same year and everything. His insurance had the car flagged, clearly said Viggen and had it in the same category as a C5 Vette and Boxster S, his insurance was TWICE as much as mine.

[TTG]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

So are you suggesting that we should lower or expectations down to that of a generic brand like Nissan. Even Nissan has GT-R a car that can put most new generations of BMW to shame on track and in outright performance.

Lets call things as they are the N55 might be 4 year old but it is not a huge improvement over N54 which is now 7 yrs old. Both are 300hp/300lb-ft engines both are underrated. In fact in my opinion N54 is the better of the two. That is why BMW chooses to use N54 when it comes down to 1M, 335is, 135is, and Z435is.

So BMW has not done much of anything that awesome when it comes to upping the power in last 7 yrs. You can go out and spend $500-1000 and make your BMW more then what BMW offers from factory now in all new F30 or F32.

100% agreed. When I heard the N54 specs in 2006 I could not wait to order my 335.

Even though 435 looks ok, it is just my old 335 with a new body and a interior...... BTW, i still have HUGE issues with the exposed nav screen. I would take E9X's hump any day over a screen that looks like a retractable screen but it actually isn't.

I would much prefer A5's dash / int over the F3X.

Knowing the fact that M3 will have the same dash want to make me look elsewhere.

[Jason]

Added more images of 4 Series M Sport to official thread.

[BXL4]

While I am in the camp of those who love the 4 series, I am still looking to conserve cash for the right mix of options. Has there been any photos released, or is there even going to be, a no-line version of the 4?

[ede92]

I agree that the interior switches and details on the dash should be exclusive to the 4 Series. This is the crap that GM pulls.

[Mdecisive]

[QUOTE=KORALLROT;14166935]I really think that 4 series coupe concept really blew it for BMW. A lot of people took them serious for it, and were expecting way too much out of a base 4 coupe. I truly believe they hit the 4 series design out of the park, and it WILL get better with mods, M-Sport package and obviously the M4. Your typical buyer turning an e92 328i and looking for their next car will absolutely fall in love with this 4 series, for what it currently is.


Alas, should have called the 4 series concept coupe a "4 series fantasy coupe". [/QUOTE

you know i completely agree with you. they did raise the bar too high with the concept. however it would've been nice to see some of the concept styling like headlights come through..

[K-A]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Which is a concept learned from the muscle car days of '65-70. You would strap the V8s down and find they all made lots more power than claimed for insurance purposes.

Exactly.

Fact is, enthusiasts who want the highest HP factor are NOT the main buyers of mass produced N55 equipped BMW's. These are everyday people, who want a Luxury Car with the BMW badge and in some cases dynamics, etc.

These are people who will not buy a car that has too low of MPG's, who will walk away if the Insurance Agent gives them to high a quote, etc.

A 535i/335i/etc. with 350 HP could have some insurance companies jacking up rates as it starts to encroach on "Sports Car" statistics. That could actually hurt BMW more than help them.

[alms21]

Huge BMW fan here but with the looks of this and the new F30, I'd opt for the Audi A4/S4 or A5/S5/RS5. Just a better looking car both exterior and interior.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by nks_bb

Wow really whoring out that ///M logo...

where are these M logos that everyone speaks of?

[pkimM3r]

[QUOTE=Mdecisive;14179366]

Originally Posted by KORALLROT

I really think that 4 series coupe concept really blew it for BMW. A lot of people took them serious for it, and were expecting way too much out of a base 4 coupe. I truly believe they hit the 4 series design out of the park, and it WILL get better with mods, M-Sport package and obviously the M4. Your typical buyer turning an e92 328i and looking for their next car will absolutely fall in love with this 4 series, for what it currently is.


Alas, should have called the 4 series concept coupe a "4 series fantasy coupe". [/QUOTE

you know i completely agree with you. they did raise the bar too high with the concept. however it would've been nice to see some of the concept styling like headlights come through..

what if someone were to make bodykits?

Concept kit? anyone?

[Kayani_1]

You must not be reading my post with comprehension. You do not need an M motor in 3/4 series. Instead up the power in the existing N55 engine. This is not so hard to do and does not effect gas mileage negatively. One can buy a $500-$1000 tune to get extra 40-60hp easily without causing negative effect on MPG.

That is why I know BMW is very capable of doing that in 7 yrs of development but is holding back. As some tuners did it in less time for a lot cheaper. So why the hesitation?

In this segment BMW F30 335i competes against Audi S4. It matches BMW in power and performance levels and in fact is slightly better. So BMW needs to step its game up and since when has BMW become a follower in the performance luxury car segment. It is a trend setter.


Yes, and I know what refinement it took for BMW to have 300/300. That is why I have one parked in my garage for last 4 years. However, even I as well as many others have upgraded this 300/300 great engine to well over 350/350 real awesome engine with one tune or another.

Also, how many times do I have to say that improved power in these scenarios has had no negative effect on gas mileage. So why do you keep brining gas mileage up. As it can be verified by 100's of modified owners on E9x forums. I get better gas mileage now with over 350hp/350lb-ft then I did before. As I can reach my acceleration delta target quickly without pressing accelerator further down and then easing off to cruise. So please stop mentioning MPG.


Bottom line is F32 435i is not break through in any one single aspect compared to when E92 335i was released or when E46 330i was first introduced. Those cars actually came with break through performances that set the bar higher and were actual huge improvements over prior model based on overall performance. Not so with F30 335i.

Line up a F30 335i against a 335is and chances are the newer car will see taillights of older version in straight line and on track. The lack of steering feel and feedback, numb driving experience, no significant upgrade in quality of materials, blah design, no power upgrade and very little reduction in weight. To me that is nothing to brag upon.

I am not worried about comparing BMW to inferior products of other manufacturers. Instead I like BMW because it even out does its own self with each successive car they make. They did not use to be complacent and provided an edge over others that was so titanic that no one was able to come close. Not the case with this F32 435i or F30 335i.

They are in pursuit of higher sales thus far more softer core cars to cast a wide net. They want to use gizmos to attract younger buyers of todays world. Thus, gizmo focused car rather then driver focused cars. I have nothing against gizmos. However, keep the car driver focused and you can still offer gizmos. Do not turn it into 4 wheel i-pad or video game.

Originally Posted by KevRyd

So what do you expect BMW to do for the 3 segment, Put the M motor in it? They have an award winning power plant in the N20 and N55, N20 being the newer of the 2 but the N55 with TwinScroll is still a relatively new motor. The car performs at the top of it's class in all power-train spacific criteria. Do you know what refinement it took to get over 300/300 out of an engin? Most makers are still trying to catch-up, most are failing.

Also:

Have you seen the price of gas lately. Alot of 335i owners are opting for the 328, dropping down in power for economy. And you are complaining about what exactly?

Just another E9X driver complaining about the F30, no surprise!

Kevin

[Frosty]

will there be any way to add Comfort Access without getting leather?

[KevRyd]

BMW over-engineers their engins, that is why their is so much potential when it comes to tuning. You keep saying that economy is not lost on Tuned cars and to some point you are correct. As long as you drive it like an un-tuned car (eco-mode) there will be no difference. If you push the car you will see reductions in economy even more-so than stock. it is a zero sum gain. I think it is smart decision for BMW to produce awesome underrated engins with lots of potential for tuning, this gives every individual the ability to tune but also meet strigient import/export standards for emmissions and economy.

as for the rest of your post, I won't comment, suffice to say your welcome to your opinion, you don't like the F30 so good on ya mate! I'm a proud owner of an F30 so I'll agree to disagree on all the subjective stuff

Kevin

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

You must not be reading my post with comprehension. You do not need an M motor in 3/4 series. Instead up the power in the existing N55 engine. This is not so hard to do and does not effect gas mileage negatively. One can buy a $500-$1000 tune to get extra 40-60hp easily without causing negative effect on MPG.

That is why I know BMW is very capable of doing that in 7 yrs of development but is holding back. As some tuners did it in less time for a lot cheaper. So why the hesitation?

In this segment BMW F30 335i competes against Audi S4. It matches BMW in power and performance levels and in fact is slightly better. So BMW needs to step its game up and since when has BMW become a follower in the performance luxury car segment. It is a trend setter.


Yes, and I know what refinement it took for BMW to have 300/300. That is why I have one parked in my garage for last 4 years. However, even I as well as many others have upgraded this 300/300 great engine to well over 350/350 real awesome engine with one tune or another.

Also, how many times do I have to say that improved power in these scenarios has had no negative effect on gas mileage. So why do you keep brining gas mileage up. As it can be verified by 100's of modified owners on E9x forums. I get better gas mileage now with over 350hp/350lb-ft then I did before. As I can reach my acceleration delta target quickly without pressing accelerator further down and then easing off to cruise. So please stop mentioning MPG.


Bottom line is F32 435i is not break through in any one single aspect compared to when E92 335i was released or when E46 330i was first introduced. Those cars actually came with break through performances that set the bar higher and were actual huge improvements over prior model based on overall performance. Not so with F30 335i.

Line up a F30 335i against a 335is and chances are the newer car will see taillights of older version in straight line and on track. The lack of steering feel and feedback, numb driving experience, no significant upgrade in quality of materials, blah design, no power upgrade and very little reduction in weight. To me that is nothing to brag upon.

I am not worried about comparing BMW to inferior products of other manufacturers. Instead I like BMW because it even out does its own self with each successive car they make. They did not use to be complacent and provided an edge over others that was so titanic that no one was able to come close. Not the case with this F32 435i or F30 335i.

They are in pursuit of higher sales thus far more softer core cars to cast a wide net. They want to use gizmos to attract younger buyers of todays world. Thus, gizmo focused car rather then driver focused cars. I have nothing against gizmos. However, keep the car driver focused and you can still offer gizmos. Do not turn it into 4 wheel i-pad or video game.

[KevRyd]

NO they would not and they have not given the dyno results for the N20 and N55, both are more powerfull to the crank and to the wheels than published.

Originally Posted by mestes1999

I've heard that these engines are underrated many times as well, but don't you think if they were actually producing more power, BMW would say so, simply from a marketing perspective?

[odariel]

Originally Posted by Frenk

e92 aint looking outdated, who agree ?

Agree. The volume of the boot seems to short, i don't like the half baked side vent on the front fender, the way the back pillar falls into the boot... makes the car look short and tall... The front... i don't like it too much... I'n not in love with it to be honest. The interiors are a clear step forward, and the mirrors as well...


Wouldn't buy it, specially owning an E92

[Speedy7]

Can not wait for the M4!

[Kayani_1]

I agree that BMW over engineers their engines and builds some great engines and that is why their is so much potential with N54 or N55.

However, where I disagree with you is that in regular driving (eco-mode) or aggressive driving (non-eco mode) tuned vs non tuned car of mine gives me exact same mileage.

If I push my tuned over 350hp/350 lb-ft vs non-tune 300hp/300 lb-ft the MPG difference is pretty much the same. I have run my N54 car without tune for 2.5 years and then with tune now for 2 years. So I am talking from personal experience.

In my opinion BMW can easily up the game on both N54 or N55 by 50hp stated (but 370hp as it would be underrated.) without sacrificing anything in MPG. All thanks to an 8-speed transmission whose wider range of gear ratios can cause u to have great gas mileage and acceleration.

They can then easily take the M3/M4 to 450hp (under rated more like 470hp).

I love the ability to tune BMW cars specially in turbo charge version of engines......it is the sweetest thing I love about new engines.

Originally Posted by KevRyd

BMW over-engineers their engins, that is why their is so much potential when it comes to tuning. You keep saying that economy is not lost on Tuned cars and to some point you are correct. As long as you drive it like an un-tuned car (eco-mode) there will be no difference. If you push the car you will see reductions in economy even more-so than stock. it is a zero sum gain.

Kevin

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

Looks good. M4 will look sick.

no doubt

[nenadbogar]

how come the side skirt stays the same on the msport?