[meek07]

Hey all,

I want to tune my 435ix with BM3. This would be my first time tuning any of my cars so I'm curious if any additional bolt-ons are recommended or required (downpipe, charge pipe, air intake etc) for either of the stages.

And would the bolt-ons be to mitigate damage to existing stock components or to help increase power, or both? Or are none required at all?

All I know from reading so far is that @390HP+, 93 octane is required, so I'll likely stay below 390HP

Thanks in advance.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by meek07

Hey all,

I want to tune my 435ix with BM3. This would be my first time tuning any of my cars so I'm curious if any additional bolt-ons are recommended or required (downpipe, charge pipe, air intake etc) for either of the stages.

And would the bolt-ons be to mitigate damage to existing stock components or to help increase power, or both? Or are none required at all?

All I know from reading so far is that @390HP+, 93 octane is required, so I'll likely stay below 390HP

Thanks in advance.

It sounds like you need to do quite a bit more research to get your arms around the requirements and tuning in general. Start with the actual documentation from the tuning platform you choose. They will explicitly list required modifications. You should not run a tune without those installed. Yes, the car will allow you to, but you shouldn't. I guess you can call this "mitigating damage", but of course the mods are designed to increase power and get the most out of the tune as well...

There is no HP threshold for octane... not sure where you read that? You will just chose a map for the octane you have access to. Dont run a 93 octane map with 91 pump gas. You can run a 91 octane map with 93 gas. Higher octane maps will generally make a little more power (can run more timing), but obviously dont run a high octane map unless you have that fuel.

Generally speaking:

Stage 1 - stock car, but CP is a universal requirement

Stage 2 - IC + CP + DP.

Intake is not required.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It sounds like you need to do quite a bit more research to get your arms around the requirements and tuning in general. Start with the actual documentation from the tuning platform you choose. They will explicitly list required modifications. You should not run a tune without those installed. Yes, the car will allow you to, but you shouldn't. I guess you can call this "mitigating damage", but of course the mods are designed to increase power and get the most out of the tune as well...

There is no HP threshold for octane... not sure where you read that? You will just chose a map for the octane you have access to. Dont run a 93 octane map with 91 pump gas. You can run a 91 octane map with 93 gas. Higher octane maps will generally make a little more power (can run more timing), but obviously dont run a high octane map unless you have that fuel.

Generally speaking:

Stage 1 - stock car, but CP is a universal requirement

Stage 2 - IC + CP + DP.

Intake is not required.

Man thank you for that awesome reply. IC = intercooler?

To clarify, I've read that if you're running 390HP or more, 93 octane is required to reduce misfires. (Generally speaking for any car that is)

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by meek07

Man thank you for that awesome reply. IC = intercooler?

To clarify, I've read that if you're running 390HP or more, 93 octane is required to reduce misfires. (Generally speaking for any car that is)

Yes IC is intercooler.

I mean... that's just not really the way to describe it. You can always cram more boost and run less timing and make power? An octane to HP correlation just isnt a good way to describe it. Of course you will be limited to how much HP you can make if you have lower octane fuel, and can make more HP on higher octane fuel, but describing as you need XX octane to reach YYY HP doesnt really make sense. And you definitely can't generalize to other cars lol, saying cars cant make over 390HP without 93+ octane is just wrong.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yes IC is intercooler.

I mean... that's just not really the way to describe it. You can always cram more boost and run less timing and make power? An octane to HP correlation just isnt a good way to describe it. Of course you will be limited to how much HP you can make if you have lower octane fuel, and can make more HP on higher octane fuel, but describing as you need XX octane to reach YYY HP doesnt really make sense. And you definitely can't generalize to other cars lol, saying cars cant make over 390HP without 93+ octane is just wrong.

Yeah perhaps I misunderstood what the guys actually meant but it sure sounded like if you're pushing 390HP+, you better be running 93 octane. That's why I need to ask these questions lol...

[exE36M3]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It sounds like you need to do quite a bit more research to get your arms around the requirements and tuning in general. Start with the actual documentation from the tuning platform you choose. They will explicitly list required modifications. You should not run a tune without those installed. Yes, the car will allow you to, but you shouldn't. I guess you can call this "mitigating damage", but of course the mods are designed to increase power and get the most out of the tune as well...

There is no HP threshold for octane... not sure where you read that? You will just chose a map for the octane you have access to. Dont run a 93 octane map with 91 pump gas. You can run a 91 octane map with 93 gas. Higher octane maps will generally make a little more power (can run more timing), but obviously dont run a high octane map unless you have that fuel.

Generally speaking:

Stage 1 - stock car, but CP is a universal requirement

Stage 2 - IC + CP + DP.

Intake is not required.

Serious truth here.
If I may add...

I know on a car forum where people are pushing +400,+500, +1000 hp it's all sexy and such... but a lot of these guys have some serious years behind them, track days, and/or engineering types and they also have matching braking, suspension and tires... and quite a few of them have broken things.
VERY expensive things.

Personally, I'd suggest starting with a used JB+ piggyback at +4psi. Will cost you maybe $125 for a used unit. I suggest this because it's the easiest, least expensive power bump that you WILL feel and it's a great gateway drug. And it's something you can install and try out. And if you like it, sell later for what you paid and go the BM3, MHD, flash route.

And I might even suggest *maybe* showing up at a local BMW Car Club track school or driving event. Saying you own a 400+ hp car is fun, but learning how to drive one is better...

I'm not slamming your abilities but... after a few laps on a track you feel like you are a god... until the instructor, who *might* be a semi-pro takes the wheel... that "whimpy" 300hp 435i all of a sudden moves like a Ferrari. And the number one thing I hear after that experience, "I had NO IDEA my car could do that!"

[lens]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

Serious truth here.
If I may add...

I know on a car forum where people are pushing +400,+500, +1000 hp it's all sexy and such... but a lot of these guys have some serious years behind them, track days, and/or engineering types and they also have matching braking, suspension and tires... and quite a few of them have broken things.
VERY expensive things.

Personally, I'd suggest starting with a used JB+ piggyback at +4psi. Will cost you maybe $125 for a used unit. I suggest this because it's the easiest, least expensive power bump that you WILL feel and it's a great gateway drug. And it's something you can install and try out. And if you like it, sell later for what you paid and go the BM3, MHD, flash route.

And I might even suggest *maybe* showing up at a local BMW Car Club track school or driving event. Saying you own a 400+ hp car is fun, but learning how to drive one is better...

I'm not slamming your abilities but... after a few laps on a track you feel like you are a god... until the instructor, who *might* be a semi-pro takes the wheel... that "whimpy" 300hp 435i all of a sudden moves like a Ferrari. And the number one thing I hear after that experience, "I had NO IDEA my car could do that!"

^

Follow his advice.

So many people who buy a car and just throw on bolt ons and have no idea what they put on or how to read logs, or "Can I run stage 2 93 without FMIC and on 91 oct"

These forums are great for information, just use the search bar and search away, there's plenty of people who are the same route as you, and you'll be able to find out what general maintenance is required, what the terms "FMIC" and such means and so on.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by meek07

Hey all,

I want to tune my 435ix with BM3. This would be my first time tuning any of my cars so I'm curious if any additional bolt-ons are recommended or required (downpipe, charge pipe, air intake etc) for either of the stages.

And would the bolt-ons be to mitigate damage to existing stock components or to help increase power, or both? Or are none required at all?

All I know from reading so far is that @390HP+, 93 octane is required, so I'll likely stay below 390HP

Thanks in advance.

I've been at this for two years with the same engine that you have. Here's what I suggest. While you are educating yourself, here are some very straightforward things that you can do without getting over your head or wasting money.

1) Get a drop-in free flow air filter such as aFe Pro Dry. It's a washable, reusable filter so save your original filter to pop in while you wash and air dry your aFe. ~$75

2) Upgrade your chargepipe. The stock N55 CP is a weak design with a 90 degree bend that causes it to crack and break, even without a tune. No one makes a higher quality better fitting CP than (Made in USA) Evolution Racewerks. Others may be cheaper but they have quality control issues.

3) Install BootMod3 Stage1 tune. (It's $595 plus buy the $20 install cable and $50 multitune package)
No bolt ons or anything else needed. You just choose 91 octane or 93 octane based on quality of gas available, NOT based on what horsepower goals are.

In some geographies the quality of 93 octane gas is poor. So guys still put 93 octane in the tank but they run a 91 octane BM3 tune for extra engine protection.

The N55 engine is designed to protect itself. If you were running a 93 octane tune but the 93 octane gas really wasn't up to that level, then the engine would adjust timing and even throttle protect itself. Once you learn how to record logs and read logs, which are just graphs of various engine sensors, then you can see this type of thing happening.

In the example above if you suspected weak 93 octane you would record a log. If the log showed timing changes (by cylinder) then you might try running the 91 octane tune and recording a log. If that log was clean with no timing adjustments then you will know that you should just keep running the 91 octane tune while continuing to put 93 octane gas in the tank.

BootMod3 is a smooth, powerful tune. It feels like a factory tune. Plus it comes with a free automatic transmission tune that is awesome.

It literally takes less than 20 minutes to install from your laptop sitting in your driveway. You just plug the Special Ethernet cable from your laptop to the OBD port under the dash near your left knee.

BootMod3 Stage1 is the biggest bang for your buck. It gives you the biggest performance boost. After that it costs more and more for less and less of an improvement. HaHa, it's an addiction!

Just FYI- Stage2 sets the boost higher than the stock downpipe can handle. The stock downpipe has too much backpressure against the turbo at those boost settings. So it is a requirement if you want to run a Stage2 tune you must first upgrade to a free flow downpipe, either catted or catless- there are pros and cons to each.

A higher capacity Front Mounted Intercooler (FMIC) is recommended, but not required. Again, if there is a driving situation where you could really use a larger than stock FMIC the engine has built in safeguards to protect itself.

Hope this helps!

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by johnung

I've been at this for two years with the same engine that you have. Here's what I suggest. While you are educating yourself, here are some very straightforward things that you can do without getting over your head or wasting money.

1) Get a drop-in free flow air filter such as aFe Pro Dry. It's a washable, reusable filter so save your original filter to pop in while you wash and air dry your aFe. ~$75

2) Upgrade your chargepipe. The stock N55 CP is a weak design with a 90 degree bend that causes it to crack and break, even without a tune. No one makes a higher quality better fitting CP than (Made in USA) Evolution Racewerks. Others may be cheaper but they have quality control issues.

3) Install BootMod3 Stage1 tune. (It's $595 plus buy the $20 install cable and $50 multitune package)
No bolt ons or anything else needed. You just choose 91 octane or 93 octane based on quality of gas available, NOT based on what horsepower goals are.

In some geographies the quality of 93 octane gas is poor. So guys still put 93 octane in the tank but they run a 91 octane BM3 tune for extra engine protection.

The N55 engine is designed to protect itself. If you were running a 93 octane tune but the 93 octane gas really wasn't up to that level, then the engine would adjust timing and even throttle protect itself. Once you learn how to record logs and read logs, which are just graphs of various engine sensors, then you can see this type of thing happening.

In the example above if you suspected weak 93 octane you would record a log. If the log showed timing changes (by cylinder) then you might try running the 91 octane tune and recording a log. If that log was clean with no timing adjustments then you will know that you should just keep running the 91 octane tune while continuing to put 93 octane gas in the tank.

BootMod3 is a smooth, powerful tune. It feels like a factory tune. Plus it comes with a free automatic transmission tune that is awesome.

It literally takes less than 20 minutes to install from your laptop sitting in your driveway. You just plug the Special Ethernet cable from your laptop to the OBD port under the dash near your left knee.

BootMod3 Stage1 is the biggest bang for your buck. It gives you the biggest performance boost. After that it costs more and more for less and less of an improvement. HaHa, it's an addiction!

Just FYI- Stage2 sets the boost higher than the stock downpipe can handle. The stock downpipe has too much backpressure against the turbo at those boost settings. So it is a requirement if you want to run a Stage2 tune you must first upgrade to a free flow downpipe, either catted or catless- there are pros and cons to each.

A higher capacity Front Mounted Intercooler (FMIC) is recommended, but not required. Again, if there is a driving situation where you could really use a larger than stock FMIC the engine has built in safeguards to protect itself.

Hope this helps!

That is a good idea running Stage 2 91 while using 93 octane. Im getting suspicious of the quality of my 93 fuel here in FL and im showing some strange timing scenarios. May give this a shot in a few days and see how performs. Have you personally done this yourself or known people who have?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

That is a good idea running Stage 2 91 while using 93 octane. Im getting suspicious of the quality of my 93 fuel here in FL and im showing some strange timing scenarios. May give this a shot in a few days and see how performs. Have you personally done this yourself or known people who have?

Many people have posted about running BM3 91 octane tune while filling up with 93 octane. It usually solves problems of timing issues with gasoline that is suspect about actually being at its octane rating. The BootMod3 Facebook group is a good place to check out along with the information on Bimmerpost

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

That is a good idea running Stage 2 91 while using 93 octane. Im getting suspicious of the quality of my 93 fuel here in FL and im showing some strange timing scenarios. May give this a shot in a few days and see how performs. Have you personally done this yourself or known people who have?

Yeah its totally fine to run a lower octane tune than the fuel you are running (but not the other way around). Usually its CA/NV and the pacific NW that have bad fuel quality, but it can happen anywhere. I think we are also still on winter blend.

EDIT: Also i think E85 is widely available in FL? You can try that for some octane.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It sounds like you need to do quite a bit more research to get your arms around the requirements and tuning in general. Start with the actual documentation from the tuning platform you choose. They will explicitly list required modifications. You should not run a tune without those installed. Yes, the car will allow you to, but you shouldn't. I guess you can call this "mitigating damage", but of course the mods are designed to increase power and get the most out of the tune as well...

There is no HP threshold for octane... not sure where you read that? You will just chose a map for the octane you have access to. Dont run a 93 octane map with 91 pump gas. You can run a 91 octane map with 93 gas. Higher octane maps will generally make a little more power (can run more timing), but obviously dont run a high octane map unless you have that fuel.

Generally speaking:

Stage 1 - stock car, but CP is a universal requirement

Stage 2 - IC + CP + DP.

Intake is not required.

+1

[A12345]

There are types of people who do mods. One who need little bit of Horsepower and other they want 500+Hp.

More HP = More Aftermarket Parts.


BM3 is safe so far and cheaper than Dinan. almost no issue in stage 1. Charge pipe in N55 engines are weaks. So its is best idea to spend $200-400 on CP depends on different manufacture Companies. and you are good to go with stage1. stage1 is just the beginning of mods.
Intercooler, Downpipes are Needed for stage 2, specially DP.
Go slow with mods. research on this forum and fb. So many people are helping in this forum.

Remember You get what you pay for.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

Serious truth here.
If I may add...

I know on a car forum where people are pushing +400,+500, +1000 hp it's all sexy and such... but a lot of these guys have some serious years behind them, track days, and/or engineering types and they also have matching braking, suspension and tires... and quite a few of them have broken things.
VERY expensive things.

Personally, I'd suggest starting with a used JB+ piggyback at +4psi. Will cost you maybe $125 for a used unit. I suggest this because it's the easiest, least expensive power bump that you WILL feel and it's a great gateway drug. And it's something you can install and try out. And if you like it, sell later for what you paid and go the BM3, MHD, flash route.

And I might even suggest *maybe* showing up at a local BMW Car Club track school or driving event. Saying you own a 400+ hp car is fun, but learning how to drive one is better...

I'm not slamming your abilities but... after a few laps on a track you feel like you are a god... until the instructor, who *might* be a semi-pro takes the wheel... that "whimpy" 300hp 435i all of a sudden moves like a Ferrari. And the number one thing I hear after that experience, "I had NO IDEA my car could do that!"

Originally Posted by exE36M3

Serious truth here.
If I may add...

I know on a car forum where people are pushing +400,+500, +1000 hp it's all sexy and such... but a lot of these guys have some serious years behind them, track days, and/or engineering types and they also have matching braking, suspension and tires... and quite a few of them have broken things.
VERY expensive things.

Personally, I'd suggest starting with a used JB+ piggyback at +4psi. Will cost you maybe $125 for a used unit. I suggest this because it's the easiest, least expensive power bump that you WILL feel and it's a great gateway drug. And it's something you can install and try out. And if you like it, sell later for what you paid and go the BM3, MHD, flash route.

And I might even suggest *maybe* showing up at a local BMW Car Club track school or driving event. Saying you own a 400+ hp car is fun, but learning how to drive one is better...

I'm not slamming your abilities but... after a few laps on a track you feel like you are a god... until the instructor, who *might* be a semi-pro takes the wheel... that "whimpy" 300hp 435i all of a sudden moves like a Ferrari. And the number one thing I hear after that experience, "I had NO IDEA my car could do that!"

I didn't even see this comment. My bad.

Yeah maybe I will track it some time. I guess you can really feel the power and abilities when it comes to maneuvering around a track.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by johnung

I've been at this for two years with the same engine that you have. Here's what I suggest. While you are educating yourself, here are some very straightforward things that you can do without getting over your head or wasting money.

1) Get a drop-in free flow air filter such as aFe Pro Dry. It's a washable, reusable filter so save your original filter to pop in while you wash and air dry your aFe. ~$75

2) Upgrade your chargepipe. The stock N55 CP is a weak design with a 90 degree bend that causes it to crack and break, even without a tune. No one makes a higher quality better fitting CP than (Made in USA) Evolution Racewerks. Others may be cheaper but they have quality control issues.

3) Install BootMod3 Stage1 tune. (It's $595 plus buy the $20 install cable and $50 multitune package)
No bolt ons or anything else needed. You just choose 91 octane or 93 octane based on quality of gas available, NOT based on what horsepower goals are.

In some geographies the quality of 93 octane gas is poor. So guys still put 93 octane in the tank but they run a 91 octane BM3 tune for extra engine protection.

The N55 engine is designed to protect itself. If you were running a 93 octane tune but the 93 octane gas really wasn't up to that level, then the engine would adjust timing and even throttle protect itself. Once you learn how to record logs and read logs, which are just graphs of various engine sensors, then you can see this type of thing happening.

In the example above if you suspected weak 93 octane you would record a log. If the log showed timing changes (by cylinder) then you might try running the 91 octane tune and recording a log. If that log was clean with no timing adjustments then you will know that you should just keep running the 91 octane tune while continuing to put 93 octane gas in the tank.

BootMod3 is a smooth, powerful tune. It feels like a factory tune. Plus it comes with a free automatic transmission tune that is awesome.

It literally takes less than 20 minutes to install from your laptop sitting in your driveway. You just plug the Special Ethernet cable from your laptop to the OBD port under the dash near your left knee.

BootMod3 Stage1 is the biggest bang for your buck. It gives you the biggest performance boost. After that it costs more and more for less and less of an improvement. HaHa, it's an addiction!

Just FYI- Stage2 sets the boost higher than the stock downpipe can handle. The stock downpipe has too much backpressure against the turbo at those boost settings. So it is a requirement if you want to run a Stage2 tune you must first upgrade to a free flow downpipe, either catted or catless- there are pros and cons to each.

A higher capacity Front Mounted Intercooler (FMIC) is recommended, but not required. Again, if there is a driving situation where you could really use a larger than stock FMIC the engine has built in safeguards to protect itself.

Hope this helps!

Originally Posted by exE36M3

Serious truth here.
If I may add...

I know on a car forum where people are pushing +400,+500, +1000 hp it's all sexy and such... but a lot of these guys have some serious years behind them, track days, and/or engineering types and they also have matching braking, suspension and tires... and quite a few of them have broken things.
VERY expensive things.

Personally, I'd suggest starting with a used JB+ piggyback at +4psi. Will cost you maybe $125 for a used unit. I suggest this because it's the easiest, least expensive power bump that you WILL feel and it's a great gateway drug. And it's something you can install and try out. And if you like it, sell later for what you paid and go the BM3, MHD, flash route.

And I might even suggest *maybe* showing up at a local BMW Car Club track school or driving event. Saying you own a 400+ hp car is fun, but learning how to drive one is better...

I'm not slamming your abilities but... after a few laps on a track you feel like you are a god... until the instructor, who *might* be a semi-pro takes the wheel... that "whimpy" 300hp 435i all of a sudden moves like a Ferrari. And the number one thing I hear after that experience, "I had NO IDEA my car could do that!"

Originally Posted by johnung

I've been at this for two years with the same engine that you have. Here's what I suggest. While you are educating yourself, here are some very straightforward things that you can do without getting over your head or wasting money.

1) Get a drop-in free flow air filter such as aFe Pro Dry. It's a washable, reusable filter so save your original filter to pop in while you wash and air dry your aFe. ~$75

2) Upgrade your chargepipe. The stock N55 CP is a weak design with a 90 degree bend that causes it to crack and break, even without a tune. No one makes a higher quality better fitting CP than (Made in USA) Evolution Racewerks. Others may be cheaper but they have quality control issues.

3) Install BootMod3 Stage1 tune. (It's $595 plus buy the $20 install cable and $50 multitune package)
No bolt ons or anything else needed. You just choose 91 octane or 93 octane based on quality of gas available, NOT based on what horsepower goals are.

In some geographies the quality of 93 octane gas is poor. So guys still put 93 octane in the tank but they run a 91 octane BM3 tune for extra engine protection.

The N55 engine is designed to protect itself. If you were running a 93 octane tune but the 93 octane gas really wasn't up to that level, then the engine would adjust timing and even throttle protect itself. Once you learn how to record logs and read logs, which are just graphs of various engine sensors, then you can see this type of thing happening.

In the example above if you suspected weak 93 octane you would record a log. If the log showed timing changes (by cylinder) then you might try running the 91 octane tune and recording a log. If that log was clean with no timing adjustments then you will know that you should just keep running the 91 octane tune while continuing to put 93 octane gas in the tank.

BootMod3 is a smooth, powerful tune. It feels like a factory tune. Plus it comes with a free automatic transmission tune that is awesome.

It literally takes less than 20 minutes to install from your laptop sitting in your driveway. You just plug the Special Ethernet cable from your laptop to the OBD port under the dash near your left knee.

BootMod3 Stage1 is the biggest bang for your buck. It gives you the biggest performance boost. After that it costs more and more for less and less of an improvement. HaHa, it's an addiction!

Just FYI- Stage2 sets the boost higher than the stock downpipe can handle. The stock downpipe has too much backpressure against the turbo at those boost settings. So it is a requirement if you want to run a Stage2 tune you must first upgrade to a free flow downpipe, either catted or catless- there are pros and cons to each.

A higher capacity Front Mounted Intercooler (FMIC) is recommended, but not required. Again, if there is a driving situation where you could really use a larger than stock FMIC the engine has built in safeguards to protect itself.

Hope this helps!

Is the higher capacity FMIC recommended for the Stage 2 tune or just in general for either Stage 1 or Stage 2?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by meek07

Is the higher capacity FMIC recommended for the Stage 2 tune or just in general for either Stage 1 or Stage 2?

Upgraded FMIC is listed as a "requirement" for a stage 2 tune, but not for a stage 1 tune.

Having said that you will certainly benefit from a upgraded IC on a stage 1 tune, and it it what i personally recommend, and what i did myself. This is particularly true if you are planning to eventually go stage 2, and/or, if you are going to be installing the CP at the same time. ICs are not really expensive, you can get combo deals, save on install time, etc etc - just do the IC with the CP. Your IATs will thank you.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Upgraded FMIC is listed as a "requirement" for a stage 2 tune, but not for a stage 1 tune.

Having said that you will certainly benefit from a upgraded IC on a stage 1 tune, and it it what i personally recommend, and what i did myself. This is particularly true if you are planning to eventually go stage 2, and/or, if you are going to be installing the CP at the same time. ICs are not really expensive, you can get combo deals, save on install time, etc etc - just do the IC with the CP. Your IATs will thank you.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Upgraded FMIC is listed as a "requirement" for a stage 2 tune, but not for a stage 1 tune.

Having said that you will certainly benefit from a upgraded IC on a stage 1 tune, and it it what i personally recommend, and what i did myself. This is particularly true if you are planning to eventually go stage 2, and/or, if you are going to be installing the CP at the same time. ICs are not really expensive, you can get combo deals, save on install time, etc etc - just do the IC with the CP. Your IATs will thank you.

Yeah I was going through my messages and it was you who had reco'd the IC. So I went ahead and got one as well with the CP (both not yet installed) but I was only planning on doing Stage 1. I can't get 93 octane in my location unless I use an octane booster.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by meek07

Yeah I was going through my messages and it was you who had reco'd the IC. So I went ahead and got one as well with the CP (both not yet installed) but I was only planning on doing Stage 1. I can't get 93 octane in my location unless I use an octane booster.

Good call

Not sure where the octane comes into play, there are stage 1 and stage 2 tunes for 91 octane available, if that's what you were referring to? I would steer clear of octane booster; it can work but its not really a permanent solution. Just run a 91 tune if you can only get 91 or 92 gas. Or explore ethanol mixing if you have E85 available.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Good call

Not sure where the octane comes into play, there are stage 1 and stage 2 tunes for 91 octane available, if that's what you were referring to? I would steer clear of octane booster; it can work but its not really a permanent solution. Just run a 91 tune if you can only get 91 or 92 gas. Or explore ethanol mixing if you have E85 available.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Good call

Not sure where the octane comes into play, there are stage 1 and stage 2 tunes for 91 octane available, if that's what you were referring to? I would steer clear of octane booster; it can work but its not really a permanent solution. Just run a 91 tune if you can only get 91 or 92 gas. Or explore ethanol mixing if you have E85 available.

Yeah let me clarify.

If I was going to do a stage 2, I would want to do the 93 octane tune and I'd require the downpipes. But it's not even worth the HP gains imo. So that leaves me wondering if I should try to sell my IC since it's not required for a stage 1 91 octane.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by meek07

Yeah let me clarify.

If I was going to do a stage 2, I would want to do the 93 octane tune and I'd require the downpipes. But it's not even worth the HP gains imo. So that leaves me wondering if I should try to sell my IC since it's not required for a stage 1 91 octane.

You couldn't ever do a 93 Octane tune because your tune possibilities are limited to the quality of the local fuel that you have available. You already said that you don't have good 93 available. So 91 octane is the tune that you need to use unless you decide to use what I call exotic fueling in the future.

Do NOT use any kind of octane booster. Someone posted a great thread not too long ago about how the common octane boosters are bad for your car. The few brands that he said might be okay, I had never seen or heard of.

I don't think you said which charge pipe or intercooler you bought.

Don't sell your intercooler. Install it along with your new charge pipe. Although an upgraded intercooler isn't required with a Stage1 tune, it is very much desirable. Plus there is a big labor overlap so it's cheaper to install both at the same time.

A turbo compresses air so it comes out hotter. An intercooler cools down the temperature of the intake air before it enters your engine. Since a Stage1 tune sets the boost pressures higher than stock, that means that the stock intercooler would receive a lot more air than it was designed to cool.

If the stock intercooler can't keep the intake air temperature down the a condition called heat soak occurs. That is when the engines safety systems kick in to protect it. Engine timing is adjusted and potentially throttle is a adjusted. To the driver it feels like the car is sluggish.

Heat soak will not occur at low revs. So cruising down the highway, even at 80mph will NOT cause heat soak. Driving around town in stop and go traffic will NOT cause heat soak. I am saying these things with emphasis because guys often claim their engine is sluggish and immediately claim that they have heat soak. They do not.

Driving at low revs is the same as driving around with a stock tune. You can only overrun your stock intercooler at higher revs at higher than stock boost levels.

The easiest way to feel heat soak is to do successive wide open throttle runs. I have a highway near me with red light after red light that are timed to turn green as soon as I get there. When my stock intercooler was installed I could do 1-2-3-4-5-6 wide open throttles in a row. Eventually the engine starts to feel sluggish. This is heat soak!

On a cool day, you may not feel it until 5 or 6 WOT runs. On a hot summer day you may feel it sooner after 3, 4 or 5 runs.

So on a warm summer day when you want to drive your car hard and you want to enjoy that Stage1 tune, you will either be happy that you installed your larger intercooler, or you will wish that you had.

Hope this helps!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by meek07

Yeah let me clarify.

If I was going to do a stage 2, I would want to do the 93 octane tune and I'd require the downpipes. But it's not even worth the HP gains imo. So that leaves me wondering if I should try to sell my IC since it's not required for a stage 1 91 octane.

What's not worth the HP gains? The stage 2 tune, or the downpipes? Both are worth the gains lol... You will get HP gains from installing a DP regardless of which tune you rune. You will get additional gains from the tune change from stage 1 to stage 2 (not counting the DP gains, just the tune gains). You can see the comparisons i did in my virtual dyno thread as "evidence".

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1710794

If you only have 91 fuel, you should only run the 91 octane tune... regardless of stage 1 or stage 2. I am confused where octane becomes a consideration when you are deciding whether or not you should install a IC (or DP) or whether or not you should run a higher stage tune... The octane has no bearing on the hardware required, you will simply run a little more timing on a higher octane tune and make a little more power than on a lower octane tune of the same stage.

Sell your IC if you want, but you will regret it when you see IATs rising considerably on your second WOT pull. As John mentioned, timing will start to be pulled, and the car will get slower with every subsequent back to back pull. The stock IC is barely enough for stock boost and power levels.

[meek07]

Originally Posted by johnung

You couldn't ever do a 93 Octane tune because your tune possibilities are limited to the quality of the local fuel that you have available. You already said that you don't have good 93 available. So 91 octane is the tune that you need to use unless you decide to use what I call exotic fueling in the future.

Do NOT use any kind of octane booster. Someone posted a great thread not too long ago about how the common octane boosters are bad for your car. The few brands that he said might be okay, I had never seen or heard of.

I don't think you said which charge pipe or intercooler you bought.

Don't sell your intercooler. Install it along with your new charge pipe. Although an upgraded intercooler isn't required with a Stage1 tune, it is very much desirable. Plus there is a big labor overlap so it's cheaper to install both at the same time.

A turbo compresses air so it comes out hotter. An intercooler cools down the temperature of the intake air before it enters your engine. Since a Stage1 tune sets the boost pressures higher than stock, that means that the stock intercooler would receive a lot more air than it was designed to cool.

If the stock intercooler can't keep the intake air temperature down the a condition called heat soak occurs. That is when the engines safety systems kick in to protect it. Engine timing is adjusted and potentially throttle is a adjusted. To the driver it feels like the car is sluggish.

Heat soak will not occur at low revs. So cruising down the highway, even at 80mph will NOT cause heat soak. Driving around town in stop and go traffic will NOT cause heat soak. I am saying these things with emphasis because guys often claim their engine is sluggish and immediately claim that they have heat soak. They do not.

Driving at low revs is the same as driving around with a stock tune. You can only overrun your stock intercooler at higher revs at higher than stock boost levels.

The easiest way to feel heat soak is to do successive wide open throttle runs. I have a highway near me with red light after red light that are timed to turn green as soon as I get there. When my stock intercooler was installed I could do 1-2-3-4-5-6 wide open throttles in a row. Eventually the engine starts to feel sluggish. This is heat soak!

On a cool day, you may not feel it until 5 or 6 WOT runs. On a hot summer day you may feel it sooner after 3, 4 or 5 runs.

So on a warm summer day when you want to drive your car hard and you want to enjoy that Stage1 tune, you will either be happy that you installed your larger intercooler, or you will wish that you had.

Hope this helps!

Originally Posted by johnung

You couldn't ever do a 93 Octane tune because your tune possibilities are limited to the quality of the local fuel that you have available. You already said that you don't have good 93 available. So 91 octane is the tune that you need to use unless you decide to use what I call exotic fueling in the future.

Do NOT use any kind of octane booster. Someone posted a great thread not too long ago about how the common octane boosters are bad for your car. The few brands that he said might be okay, I had never seen or heard of.

I don't think you said which charge pipe or intercooler you bought.

Don't sell your intercooler. Install it along with your new charge pipe. Although an upgraded intercooler isn't required with a Stage1 tune, it is very much desirable. Plus there is a big labor overlap so it's cheaper to install both at the same time.

A turbo compresses air so it comes out hotter. An intercooler cools down the temperature of the intake air before it enters your engine. Since a Stage1 tune sets the boost pressures higher than stock, that means that the stock intercooler would receive a lot more air than it was designed to cool.

If the stock intercooler can't keep the intake air temperature down the a condition called heat soak occurs. That is when the engines safety systems kick in to protect it. Engine timing is adjusted and potentially throttle is a adjusted. To the driver it feels like the car is sluggish.

Heat soak will not occur at low revs. So cruising down the highway, even at 80mph will NOT cause heat soak. Driving around town in stop and go traffic will NOT cause heat soak. I am saying these things with emphasis because guys often claim their engine is sluggish and immediately claim that they have heat soak. They do not.

Driving at low revs is the same as driving around with a stock tune. You can only overrun your stock intercooler at higher revs at higher than stock boost levels.

The easiest way to feel heat soak is to do successive wide open throttle runs. I have a highway near me with red light after red light that are timed to turn green as soon as I get there. When my stock intercooler was installed I could do 1-2-3-4-5-6 wide open throttles in a row. Eventually the engine starts to feel sluggish. This is heat soak!

On a cool day, you may not feel it until 5 or 6 WOT runs. On a hot summer day you may feel it sooner after 3, 4 or 5 runs.

So on a warm summer day when you want to drive your car hard and you want to enjoy that Stage1 tune, you will either be happy that you installed your larger intercooler, or you will wish that you had.

Hope this helps!

Man that is some good info right there. Thanks very much.

Sounds like Intercoolers are definitely required for drag racing.

But based on your info I'll likely benefit from an upgraded IC around 50% of the time.