[n55david]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Are you guys logging the before and after? I just want to see if you can actually hold more boost, or lower the WGDC

all of my logs were inconclusive

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Are you guys logging the before and after? I just want to see if you can actually hold more boost, or lower the WGDC

Logging each and every step of it

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

all of my logs were inconclusive

First log right after installing the MST inlet showed fractionally higher MAF at the top of the RPM range. There was not a lot of overall difference on paper. IATs while cruising around seemed to be lower as well.

That being said the car immediately felt better. Throttle response was quicker and more crisp. This was noticed upon leaving the neighborhood in comfort mode. The car felt as if it could breath better down in the lower rpms. Seemed to pull harder as well. Again none of this really seen on paper but only what I'm feeling in the cockpit. Day two of having the MST installed the car felt even better as it was adapting to the Inlet.

Strange that it is so noticeable in the car but the logs are not really showing anything drastic.

EDIT: Actually after looking at the logs again, my WGDC dropped from 91% to 89% at 6100RPMS after the MST Inlet install. This was also immediately after installing so if given more time to adapt I would expect the next log to show further improvement.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

First log right after installing the MST inlet showed fractionally higher MAF at the top of the RPM range. There was not a lot of overall difference on paper. IATs while cruising around seemed to be lower as well.

That being said the car immediately felt better. Throttle response was quicker and more crisp. This was noticed upon leaving the neighborhood in comfort mode. The car felt as if it could breath better down in the lower rpms. Seemed to pull harder as well. Again none of this really seen on paper but only what I'm feeling in the cockpit. Day two of having the MST installed the car felt even better as it was adapting to the Inlet.

Strange that it is so noticeable in the car but the logs are not really showing anything drastic.

EDIT: Actually after looking at the logs again, my WGDC dropped from 91% to 89% at 6100RPMS after the MST Inlet install. This was also immediately after installing so if given more time to adapt I would expect the next log to show further improvement.

Reset the adaptations manually. Is the car modded?(I’m on mobile, and can’t see signatures)

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Reset the adaptations manually. Is the car modded?(I’m on mobile, and can’t see signatures)

Yep FBO + BM3 Stage 2 93oct

[n55david]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Reset the adaptations manually. Is the car modded?(I’m on mobile, and can’t see signatures)

you can turn signatures on if youre using the app.. omg the app is way better than standard mobile if you arent using it, fyi

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

Pure Turbos Inlet Option 2 or go home

Can you post a link for this?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

First log right after installing the MST inlet showed fractionally higher MAF at the top of the RPM range. There was not a lot of overall difference on paper. IATs while cruising around seemed to be lower as well.

That being said the car immediately felt better. Throttle response was quicker and more crisp. This was noticed upon leaving the neighborhood in comfort mode. The car felt as if it could breath better down in the lower rpms. Seemed to pull harder as well. Again none of this really seen on paper but only what I'm feeling in the cockpit. Day two of having the MST installed the car felt even better as it was adapting to the Inlet.

Strange that it is so noticeable in the car but the logs are not really showing anything drastic.

EDIT: Actually after looking at the logs again, my WGDC dropped from 91% to 89% at 6100RPMS after the MST Inlet install. This was also immediately after installing so if given more time to adapt I would expect the next log to show further improvement.

Yeah just to add to this i put the logs in virtual dyno to compare before MST to after MST, all else being equal. Ambient temps were even almost exactly the same. VD didnt really show any difference either. The only real quantitative difference was +1 lb/min MAF up top (like after 6000rpm), and perhaps slightly lower WGDC. The real gains seem to be more qualitative/seat of the pants, such as throttle response, and sound if you want to count that. This is consistent with what other people report with other inlets.

The final test will likely be the BMS since he has that on order. I am quite interested to see how it compares to the MST and get some actual measurements, since none are given on the website. Also, I think it was Amuro that originally linked these, but i recommend any interested in an inlet read through part 1, 2, and 3 of these tests. The Part 3 article was linked in the MST inlet thread, but even more interesting is part 2. It specifically compares a MST inlet and a BMS inlet (although for a different platform, several things are comparable). The MST uses a larger-than-stock silicone piece while the BMS uses the stock intake piece. And even more analogous to the BMW options, the BMS has a sudden neck down/change in diameter right at the turbo side. They even make a specific comment on this:

"The increase in airflow that was measured through the Burger Motorsport inlet elbow is substantial, and was surprising. Looking at the piece beforehand I had some concern about the transition at the outlet because it necks down slightly."

See picture there, then

"Clearly the concern was unfounded because the Burger part flows roughly 32% more air at the test point when compared with the stock inlet elbow. It was also a surprise to see the gains versus the two previously tested elbows from APR and Unitronic, both which have very smooth inner walls. Perhaps the larger cross section of the Burger part at the inlet and outlet contributes significantly to the airflow performance in this test."

Very interesting results. Thinking about it further, i think this is evidence that the MST hybrid turbo metal piece is better than the stock turbo one even for a stock turbo application since that neck down isnt a major concern. I think it also suggests that the BMS has the potential to flow quite good even attached to a stock intake.

The marginal gain of using the MST silicone hose over the accordion one (here referring to VW test) i think would be analogous to using the MST silicone part with MST bottom inlet piece vs. using the top stock inlet attached to MST bottom inlet piece. Its the exact same idea - MST is slightly bigger and doesnt have the accordion, and both are connected to stock intake setup.

http://mygolfmk7.com/2018/12/tip-ranking-round-1/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-2/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-3/

Although not directly related to the inlet, we also decided to test putting the full dinan intake back on connected to the MST inlet. The car never ran right with the dinan intake - had the erratic MAF readings, etc. Gave it a shot with the MST and the driveability was suppedly a lot worse (MAF adaptations were reset after install just to be safe). Even after driving around for a bit after the adaptations reset, heres the impressions:

"Ok threw Dinan on with the cone filter. Reset adaptations. Car idled horribly for first 10 seconds. Drove around easily with some medium bursts in there for about 7-8 minutes or so. Made my way out to my log spot and hit a log.

Impressions
Somehow my exhaust and turbo sounds wayyyyy louder with the Dinan on. Not sure why would make exhaust sound louder but it does. Bizarre.

Car felt laggy. Like wayyy laggy compared to MPPK+MST.
Car ran fine during the pull but didnt feel very fast.

Log from just now:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed17f2ac090c65530e92597"

If you look at that log, you will see that the MAF readings are way lower and very erratic compared with the logs with stock intake - we already thought that the dinan was messing with the MAF readings, but this was basically the final piece of evidence. I suspect its the non-OEM shape that just causes the MAF readings to be lower than they should be and combined with the cone filter makes some turbulence/erratic readings. I still put that log in virtual dyno for the sake of comparison.

It looks like the dinan log clearly deviates from the others after 5k rpm. I would ignore the big bump at 5392 because it looks like (from the log) that he hit a bump or something in the road. So realisitically if you were to draw the green curve from where it starts to deviate from the others at 5k rpm to where it ends, that would be the "real" dinan trace. So in other words, the dinan might net you +10-15 HP from 5000-7000 RPM.

From a practical perspective, i think this makes sense - the dinan definitely should flow better up top because its bigger, circular, and the filter has to flow better than the panel filter and stock intake tract. It would also be consistent with their claims (and those for intakes in general), that they should net you a peak HP number in the upper RPM range when the stock one finally becomes a bit of a choke point, but down low the stock is not really a restriction. As to why it felt laggier and slower, i think that is consistent with the general statement that "torque feels fast, but HP wins races". Its pretty much impossible to "feel" 10hp up top - but its very easy to feel better throttle response and the torque shove down low.

Having said that would i trade off the throttle response and overall better driveability with the stock intake + drop in filter + mppk bottom for the potentially +10 HP up top with the dinan? Hell no lol. Not only because i never want to rev out that high but you spend such a small fraction of your time up there its just not worth it for all the weird MAF behavior and everything else on top of the driveability sacrificies.

VD results below. Ignore the magnitude of the numbers because the vehicle weight, tire size, final drive, etc, are configured for my car - only look at the delta between the lines

Stock inlet / before MST - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ecd...0b4373874ee99a

MST inlet, all else equal - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed0...0b434621ac4c6e

Both these are with stock intake and MPPK bottom, afe dry drop in.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by DJSF3014

Can you post a link for this?

I would not order the pure lol. I would wait a week and order either MST or BMS, depending on our final test.

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I would not order the pure lol. I would wait a week and order either MST or BMW, depending on our final test.

Okay let me know looking to order real soon.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by DJSF3014

Okay let me know looking to order real soon.

Will keep this thread updated. Also, i corrected typo in my post - i meant BMS not BMW lol.

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Will keep this thread updated. Also, i corrected typo in my post - i meant BMS not BMW lol.

Appreciate it good luck with everything can't wait to see how it goes.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

I just ordered an aftermarket replacement inlet that I am gonna swap on my stock turbo.

Ive seen almost nothing as far as people doing this with stock turbo as its generally all but required with a turbo upgrade. Since I am not doing a turbo and hpfp upgrade for a while I wanted to do whatever I could for any little extra.

We know the stock one is sort of restrictive but not a huge deal with stock turbo. Ive seen a few guys who seen an increase of 1-2 lbs/min through their maf readings. Increase in flow means more power for sure. Its not huge but for someone who is FBO on a stage 2 e30 flash it sure helps. With a basic rule of 10hp per 1lbs or so... a 10hp gain is good for sure.

So inlet is ordered and Ill have it next week, for anyone interested I will do some logs and post them up. Will have pics up on Instagram as well.

I didn't realize that so many more posts were added to this thread. I don't quite understand why so many people seem to be fixated with the very end mating point of various pipes into the turbo housing. Maybe the initial issue has been lost through so much discussion.

The stock inlet pipe has a constriction point several inches from the actual end of the pipe where it enters the turbo housing. See photo and it's obvious what I am saying.

The Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe eliminates this constriction point so the Pure is the full inside diameter at that location several inches from the end. Forget about minute differences in the mating end. This is what matters. I calculated it to be a potential 42% increase in air flow into the turbo housing.

Now whether the engine can take advantage of that additional potential airflow depends on what size turbo is inside that housing, and whether the car has a high flow downpipe (to reduce back pressure on the turbo) and tune (such as BootMod3 Stage2) that sets high boost levels to try to push more air through.

An N55 PWG is the smallest turbo used in that stock housing and may not see any gains by being able to potentially take in more air because it's already maxed out on how much air it is capable of pushing out.

On my N55 EWG stock turbo (BM3 Stage2 93 Octane) with the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe I saw significant gains in MAF value on logs beginning at 5,000 RPMs and continuing right on up. I posted numbers early in this thread.

So it's obvious to me that the N55 EWG turbo is not maxed out and can take advantage of the additional airflow provided into the turbo housing by the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

I didn't realize that so many more posts were added to this thread. I don't quite understand why so many people seem to be fixated with the very end mating point of various pipes into the turbo housing. Maybe the initial issue has been lost through so much discussion.

The stock inlet pipe has a constriction point several inches from the actual end of the pipe where it enters the turbo housing. See photo and it's obvious what I am saying.

The Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe eliminates this constriction point so the Pure is the full inside diameter at that location several inches from the end. Forget about minute differences in the mating end. This is what matters. I calculated it to be a potential 42% increase in air flow into the turbo housing.

Now whether the engine can take advantage of that additional potential airflow depends on what size turbo is inside that housing, and whether the car has a high flow downpipe (to reduce back pressure on the turbo) and tune (such as BootMod3 Stage2) that sets high boost levels to try to push more air through.

An N55 PWG is the smallest turbo used in that stock housing and may not see any gains by being able to potentially take in more air because it's already maxed out on how much air it is capable of pushing out.

On my N55 EWG stock turbo (BM3 Stage2 93 Octane) with the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe I saw significant gains in MAF value on logs beginning at 5,000 RPMs and continuing right on up. I posted numbers early in this thread.

So it's obvious to me that the N55 EWG turbo is not maxed out and can take advantage of the additional airflow provided into the turbo housing by the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe.

Not sure why you think we are fixated on the very end mating point... its actually the opposite. We are looking at the entire inlet, including the innter diameter (ID) at the top, how the inlet transitions from top ID to bottom ID (turbo side), and the ID at the bottom. Not to mention the matial/construction, how they impacts IATs, potential fitment issues and other non-performance related aspects.

It seems like if anything, you are fixated on that single measurement lol - there is a lot more to it than that. And yes, i have seen your posts all over the place with those images, i have read through this thread and other inlet threads probably 5x, and i can almost guarantee spent more time researching and testing inlets for the F3x N55 than anyone else on this forum with ozymandias435. We get it - the stock has a neck down in diamaeter, and other inlets including the pure eliminate this choke point. Theres no question of that... the question is which inlet is the best. Just eliminating that choke point doesnt mean that all inlets are created equal - that is not the only thing that matters as you seem to imply. There are other factors as play, as i mentioned in my first paragraph above.

No one is arguing that there can be a benefit to an aftermarket inlet on stock turbo lol... We have just went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out which one is best, and it doesn't seem like it is going to be the pure/FTP design, although those are certainly an improvment over stock.

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by johnung

I didn't realize that so many more posts were added to this thread. I don't quite understand why so many people seem to be fixated with the very end mating point of various pipes into the turbo housing. Maybe the initial issue has been lost through so much discussion.

The stock inlet pipe has a constriction point several inches from the actual end of the pipe where it enters the turbo housing. See photo and it's obvious what I am saying.

The Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe eliminates this constriction point so the Pure is the full inside diameter at that location several inches from the end. Forget about minute differences in the mating end. This is what matters. I calculated it to be a potential 42% increase in air flow into the turbo housing.

Now whether the engine can take advantage of that additional potential airflow depends on what size turbo is inside that housing, and whether the car has a high flow downpipe (to reduce back pressure on the turbo) and tune (such as BootMod3 Stage2) that sets high boost levels to try to push more air through.

An N55 PWG is the smallest turbo used in that stock housing and may not see any gains by being able to potentially take in more air because it's already maxed out on how much air it is capable of pushing out.

On my N55 EWG stock turbo (BM3 Stage2 93 Octane) with the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe I saw significant gains in MAF value on logs beginning at 5,000 RPMs and continuing right on up. I posted numbers early in this thread.

So it's obvious to me that the N55 EWG turbo is not maxed out and can take advantage of the additional airflow provided into the turbo housing by the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe.

These are all well known things. The issues became more complex when I began updating my Inlet. The Pure inlet simply did not fit without modification. I have an M sport model with the auxiliary coolant pump right where the CCV connection is on the inlet. The CCV hose connection was jammed into my auxiliary coolant pump hose and was creating an issue. I then modified the Pure to eliminate the rubbing and at the point the Inlet would not seal correctly to the intake. After this I went back to factory and car ran beautifully with no issues but I did still want the benefit of the new inlet so I ordered the MST V2 Hybrid. Ran into some fitment issues with this as well where the Silicon is rubbing on the top of the top water pump bolt as well as hitting those same aux coolant hoses. Not rubbing as bad as the Pure but with some motor movement there could be a long term issue. I have now ordered to BMS option to test as well. Have turned this into more of an experiment and have data-logged the entire process with each and every inlet/intake.

On another note the factory is not nearly as restrictive as people think because the ID of it is exactly the same as the ID of the turbo opening. Not saying it flows more air just commenting that it was designed beautifully to exactly mate with the turbo opening.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Not sure why you think we are fixated on the very end mating point... its actually the opposite. We are looking at the entire inlet, including the innter diameter (ID) at the top, how the inlet transitions from top ID to bottom ID (turbo side), and the ID at the bottom. Not to mention the matial/construction, how they impacts IATs, potential fitment issues and other non-performance related aspects.

It seems like if anything, you are fixated on that single measurement lol - there is a lot more to it than that. And yes, i have seen your posts all over the place with those images, i have read through this thread and other inlet threads probably 5x, and i can almost guarantee spent more time researching and testing inlets for the F3x N55 than anyone else on this forum with ozymandias435. We get it - the stock has a neck down in diamaeter, and other inlets including the pure eliminate this choke point. Theres no question of that... the question is which inlet is the best. Just eliminating that choke point doesnt mean that all inlets are created equal - that is not the only thing that matters as you seem to imply. There are other factors as play, as i mentioned in my first paragraph above.

No one is arguing that there can be a benefit to an aftermarket inlet on stock turbo lol... We have just went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out which one is best, and it doesn't seem like it is going to be the pure/FTP design, although those are certainly an improvment over stock.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. We are just looking at the issue from different points of view. I've always considered my mods with the assumption that I want to maximize the stock N55 EWG turbo. A turbo upgrade is not something that I can financially manage.

Along the way several guys who I respect told me that the N55 EWG turbo was already maxed out on the air that could push, so feeding it more air with a Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe upgrade was a waste of money. They said wait until/if I upgrade the stock turbo to take advantage of the Pure Inlet Pipe.

So I was excited to see the logs showed and I could feel more power from the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe. So in my mind my mission was accomplished. No need for me to dither over other inlet pipe upgrade options.

I get it if you guys are trying to see if various inlet pipes might provide more intake air that might be usable for much larger turbo models occupying that same stock turbo housing. Basically the same question that I was trying to answer for the stock N55 EWG turbo.

Good luck! I'm interested to read your final results.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

These are all well known things. The issues became more complex when I began updating my Inlet. The Pure inlet simply did not fit without modification. I have an M sport model with the auxiliary coolant pump right where the CCV connection is on the inlet. The CCV hose connection was jammed into my auxiliary coolant pump hose and was creating an issue. I then modified the Pure to eliminate the rubbing and at the point the Inlet would not seal correctly to the intake. After this I went back to factory and car ran beautifully with no issues but I did still want the benefit of the new inlet so I ordered the MST V2 Hybrid. Ran into some fitment issues with this as well where the Silicon is rubbing on the top of the top water pump bolt as well as hitting those same aux coolant hoses. Not rubbing as bad as the Pure but with some motor movement there could be a long term issue. I have now ordered to BMS option to test as well. Have turned this into more of an experiment and have data-logged the entire process with each and every inlet/intake.

On another note the factory is not nearly as restrictive as people think because the ID of it is exactly the same as the ID of the turbo opening. Not saying it flows more air just commenting that it was designed beautifully to exactly mate with the turbo opening.

Thanks for explanation. Hope you find a good solution.

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks for explanation. Hope you find a good solution.

Thanks dude. Yep I am all for trying to max out the air flow to this turbo I just need to find an inlet that fits lol. If the Pure fit without scrubbing then It would still be in there and I wouldn't have gone this far. Now I have certainly felt the benefits of the aftermarket inlet so just trying to find the best option that works in my engine bay!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

Ah, thanks for the explanation. We are just looking at the issue from different points of view. I've always considered my mods with the assumption that I want to maximize the stock N55 EWG turbo. A turbo upgrade is not something that I can financially manage.

Along the way several guys who I respect told me that the N55 EWG turbo was already maxed out on the air that could push, so feeding it more air with a Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe upgrade was a waste of money. They said wait until/if I upgrade the stock turbo to take advantage of the Pure Inlet Pipe.

So I was excited to see the logs showed and I could feel more power from the Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe. So in my mind my mission was accomplished. No need for me to dither over other inlet pipe upgrade options.

I get it if you guys are trying to see if various inlet pipes might provide more intake air that might be usable for much larger turbo models occupying that same stock turbo housing. Basically the same question that I was trying to answer for the stock N55 EWG turbo.

Good luck! I'm interested to read your final results.

Just to clarify, all of our testing has been with, and is for, stock EWG turbo (although the same results should apply to larger turbos as well, with likely more benefits than those seen with stock EWG turbo). I don't plan to upgrade turbo either; just all for optimizing the current setup.

The pure definitely accomplishes the mission of improving over stock. We just decided to go further and put pure vs. other options.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Just to clarify, all of our testing has been with, and is for, stock EWG turbo (although the same results should apply to larger turbos as well, with likely more benefits than those seen with stock EWG turbo). I don't plan to upgrade turbo either; just all for optimizing the current setup.

The pure definitely accomplishes the mission of improving over stock. We just decided to go further and put pure vs. other options.

Ah, so your initial premise is that the Pure Inlet does NOT max out the stock N55 EWG turbo.

When I got the increase in MAF values with the Pure Turbos Inlet, I made the assumption that I had maxed out the amount of air that the stock turbo could use, at least with the boost pressures generated by BootMod3 Stage2 93 Octane OTS version 6.4.

My assumption was based on the fact that a larger turbo such as the Pure Turbos Stage2, in that same stock turbo housing, produces more power. Since power correlates to air used, the PT Stage2 must be utilizing more of the available airflow that the stock turbo was not.

Good luck!

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by johnung

Ah, so your initial premise is that the Pure Inlet does NOT max out the stock N55 EWG turbo.

When I got the increase in MAF values with the Pure Turbos Inlet, I made the assumption that I had maxed out the amount of air that the stock turbo could use, at least with the boost pressures generated by BootMod3 Stage2 93 Octane OTS version 6.4.

My assumption was based on the fact that a larger turbo such as the Pure Turbos Stage2, in that same stock turbo housing, produces more power. Since power correlates to air used, the PT Stage2 must be utilizing more of the available airflow that the stock turbo was not.

Good luck!

MST V2 will flow more air than Pure Inlet. Whether the Turbo can accept or handle the air is still to be know. But from an absolute air flow standpoint, MST V2 will flow more air.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

MST V2 will flow more air than Pure Inlet. Whether the Turbo can accept or handle the air is still to be know. But from a pure air flow standpoint, MST V2 will flow more air.

This summarizes the observations so far, and if you read those VW Golf articles i linked earlier as well, this is consistent with the tests they performed and what the results showed for airflow vs inlet design (specifically ID of the entrace and exit to the inlet itself).