[ATLBlue]

I gave another shot at putting together track footage including telemetry from the MLaptimer app and using F30 gauges. I have no merit in doing this since I only used what had been developed by two great forum members.

[ATLBlue]

The end of the track for my F30

This is not the end of the road but the end of the track for my F30
Back in November 2015, a bolt attaching the guiding link of the rear suspension on the driver side had broken at Road Atlanta. The car remained perfectly controllable and I thought it was bad luck although it already took some of my confidence in the car away.

Today I went to Atlanta Motorsports Park and things got a lot worse. After only a couple of laps, the rear trailing arm on the passenger side tore up as I was exiting a long curve at 110 mph. I was gently straightening up the car when the back started to wobble sideways pretty heavily. I managed to maintain control of the car and pitted in to find out what had happened.

As you can see on the picture, the trailing arm is completely torn up. It did not ruptured but had become completely useless.





I must say that it left me shocked since consequences could have been pretty bad this time. Sure, with coilovers the suspension is not stock and I am taking the F30 close to its limit, but I would not have imagined that it would be so fragile. The steel trailing arm really looks tacky and like it is not made of a 'performance' car. The comparison with the F8X parts is particularly striking. I know that this is the reason why you buy an M car, but I still had higher expectations of a standard 3er.

To make a long story short, I made up my mind and have no appetite for taking the F30 to the track again. I will return it to stock and keep enjoying it for daily driving and an occasional spirited drive, but there is too much to lose when things go wrong at -very- high speed.

The positive side of the day is that I was in fact at the track to put my E46 M3 to the test. I had a bunch of reliability issues (multiple SMG -I know - failures, water pump, etc.), my son had crashed it (nothing too bad) and I had given up on the idea of tracking it and was going to sell it soon. I had a change of heart and thought that since it was fixed, I might as well get a run for my money. The car did neither break down nor disappoint. It was fast, planted and consistent and as quick as the F30 when pushing it only at 7/10 of its capabilities. Taking the F30 to get a back to back comparison today was not a good idea.



I will not say that the F30 is a bad car and it is a much better option for -fast- daily driving than the old M3, so that is what I will exclusively use it for from now on.

[sly1types]

I'm sure they do or will make stronger components.

As I reading this I was thinking, he should pick a E46m3. Then to my surprise you have one😊

I will take my 335 to a single track day but that's about it. I'm not a fan of boosted track cars.

Where E46m3 was made to be a track car, there is as tone of aftermarket and huge following. With that said I have had my M3 for almost 13 years and will never sell it. It's a track car, but still has full interior but I have upgraded everything and it's amazing on the track. Right now I'm replacing every cooling component so it doesn't leave broke on a track weekend😬

I think the 335 is an awesome daily on map7! But I think if you are into tracking like you are, you should revive the m3

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by sly1types

I'm sure they do or will make stronger components.

As I reading this I was thinking, he should pick a E46m3. Then to my surprise you have one��

I will take my 335 to a single track day but that's about it. I'm not a fan of boosted track cars.

Where E46m3 was made to be a track car, there is as tone of aftermarket and huge following. With that said I have had my M3 for almost 13 years and will never sell it. It's a track car, but still has full interior but I have upgraded everything and it's amazing on the track. Right now I'm replacing every cooling component so it doesn't leave broke on a track weekend��

I think the 335 is an awesome daily on map7! But I think if you are into tracking like you are, you should revive the m3

You totally nailed it! Using the M3 as my track car was the plan all along... or at least when I bought it. I wanted something nice, proven and fast and that would be inexpensive enough not to have to pay for track insurance. I set my eyes on a 2002, 130,000 miles E46 M3. It was cheap and I knew that a bunch of things needed to be addressed. I took care of them, improved the suspension (camber plates, coilovers, bigger swaybars and PU bushings) but then the SMG pump failed twice together with a few more issues. In the meantime, I started to beef up the F30 for the road and thinking it would be OK for the occasional trackdays, which it was until recently.

Back to your E46, would you mind sharing a few things:
-You mentioned 'full interior', but did you go for a rollcage/bucket seats and if so, which one did you go for?
-Any upgrade to the brakes? stock brakes with hight temp fluid, stainless steel lines and Blue Stuff pads (at the front) seem perfectly OK to me
-what did you specifically do to the cooling components so far?

Sorry if this is a bit off topic on the F30 forum There is a ton of things available on forums for the E46, but I want to seize the opportunity to get personal feedback from someone who has run the car for a while! Thanks!

PS: one more off topic comment. When the M235i came out, some people called it the 'new E46 M3'. I call complete BS. I checked the suspension parts and they are similar, if not identical, to the 335i Msport. Good luck with track duty in the M235i. It is a fun daily driver, but you should still buy a used M3 for the track

[sly1types]

Depending on how your car was driving I have had to replace everything suspension/wearable parts. I'm at 100k miles right now. But I have tracked this car a lot over the years.

I have a full interior and I just use a GC seat belt lock-I have a kid so I don't want to loose the back seat with a roll bar.

I run PFC 08 race pads, if you do stainless lines this works well. If you track a lot you will start eating the piston boots because of the temps. So eventually I switched to a Stop Tech BBK ST40

I had the subframe crack so thats when I did all the bushings. I also replaced all the bushings at about 70k miles. FCAB, RTAB, Guibo, Subframe and diff with Powerflex bushings.

I have TC Kline Coil overs with 550/600 springs, front and read camber plates/arms. I still have stock sways.

I didn't have any cooling leaks/issues, but since track season is coming I didn't want to especially with my Road America trip coming up. So I am replacing the radiator, water pump, reservoir, upper and lower hose, reservoir hose and belts and preventative maintenance. I am working on the cooling system this weekend but I was mis shipped some gaskets so I plan on getting that back together Tuesday for track day at RPM raceway on Friday There are a lot of guys that upgrade to an aluminum radiator and I almost got a CSF, but then I see where guys and issues with them so my cooling system is still all OEM.

The only performance mods I have is headers, tune and a UUC clutch.

BTW if you went through 2 pumps that quick, make sure they throughly flush your trans fluid and cooling. You can get particles in there and then when you put in your new pump they grenade it.

It's an amazing track car and so fun to drive...
The only other good track BMW would be a E92 M3, I think the new M3 is just a modded 335.

Also I have enjoyed your vids, thanks for posting them.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

The end of the track for my F30

This is not the end of the road but the end of the track for my F30
Back in November 2015, a bolt attaching the guiding link of the rear suspension on the driver side had broken at Road Atlanta. The car remained perfectly controllable and I thought it was bad luck although it already took some of my confidence in the car away.

Today I went to Atlanta Motorsports Park and things got a lot worse. After only a couple of laps, the rear trailing arm on the passenger side tore up as I was exiting a long curve at 110 mph. I was gently straightening up the car when the back started to wobble sideways pretty heavily. I managed to maintain control of the car and pitted in to find out what had happened.

As you can see on the picture, the trailing arm is completely torn up. It did not ruptured but had become completely useless.





I must say that it left me shocked since consequences could have been pretty bad this time. Sure, with coilovers the suspension is not stock and I am taking the F30 close to its limit, but I would not have imagined that it would be so fragile. The steel trailing arm really looks tacky and like it is not made of a 'performance' car. The comparison with the F8X parts is particularly striking. I know that this is the reason why you buy an M car, but I still had higher expectations of a standard 3er.

To make a long story short, I made up my mind and have no appetite for taking the F30 to the track again. I will return it to stock and keep enjoying it for daily driving and an occasional spirited drive, but there is too much to lose when things go wrong at -very- high speed.

The positive side of the day is that I was in fact at the track to put my E46 M3 to the test. I had a bunch of reliability issues (multiple SMG -I know - failures, water pump, etc.), my son had crashed it (nothing too bad) and I had given up on the idea of tracking it and was going to sell it soon. I had a change of heart and thought that since it was fixed, I might as well get a run for my money. The car did neither break down nor disappoint. It was fast, planted and consistent and as quick as the F30 when pushing it only at 7/10 of its capabilities. Taking the F30 to get a back to back comparison today was not a good idea.



I will not say that the F30 is a bad car and it is a much better option for -fast- daily driving than the old M3, so that is what I will exclusively use it for from now on.

That's alarming. I wonder if there will be other occurrences of this as well.

[sly1types]

Atlblue- how many sessions/days did you have when this occurred?

Think if you were running slicks or R-comps...

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

That's alarming. I wonder if there will be other occurrences of this as well.

Originally Posted by sly1types

Atlblue- how many sessions/days did you have when this occurred?

Think if you were running slicks or R-comps...

I find it alarming indeed, especially after a first failure last year (bolt snapped on the driver side). The trailing arm broke after only two laps at speed. I take the car as far as the tires will let me go, but they are regular Michelin PSS.

The following chart shows lateral Gs for the F30 (lap time 1'42s) and the E46 (lap time 1'40s) running the same tires. The E46 M3 can naturally cope with higher lateral Gs and I do not see anything that would look out of the ordinary on the F30.



Maybe the F30 trailing arm started to wear out and crack during the previous track week end at Road Atlanta? In any case, the rear passenger wheel has not hit any pothole, curb or anything that could have damaged the suspension.
Maybe the increased stiffness of the coilovers is putting more strain on other components of the suspension? I can not say, I am not an expert, but I am bummed out

PS: I added a video I already posted on this thread showing the passenger side of the F30 around the same track, with the same tires and suspension setup and at about the same pace (lap time of 1'41s). Really do not see anything that would stand out as an excessive strain on the rear suspension...

[ATLBlue]

It turns out that aftermarket replacement trailing arms are available for the F30, for instance from Megan racing for only ~$180 (not my favorite brand of products, but this is just an example).
I am going for an OEM part replacement since I am not planning on tracking the F30 in the future but I thought it could be of interest to those who are considering regular track duty with their F2X/F3X.

[shivaswrath]

I've run the S001's twice at Lime Rock and put on PSS for tomorrow-will update on the differences!

OP, the F30 isn't a slouch around the track at all-but mine has had a lovely tendency of limp mode, so let's see how it goes tomorrow.

The LSD is worth it though...

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

It turns out that aftermarket replacement trailing arms are available for the F30, for instance from Megan racing for only ~$180 (not my favorite brand of products, but this is just an example).
I am going for an OEM part replacement since I am not planning on tracking the F30 in the future but I thought it could be of interest to those who are considering regular track duty with their F2X/F3X.

Those look amazing, unsure how it'll help around the track?

The PSSs were AMAZING, a little greasy towards the end, but I was hands down very confident, passed and kept a novice in a 350R Mustang many times....The M Performance line of items (suspension, LSD), make our F30 platform stout.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

The end of the track for my F30

This is not the end of the road but the end of the track for my F30
Back in November 2015, a bolt attaching the guiding link of the rear suspension on the driver side had broken at Road Atlanta. The car remained perfectly controllable and I thought it was bad luck although it already took some of my confidence in the car away.

Today I went to Atlanta Motorsports Park and things got a lot worse. After only a couple of laps, the rear trailing arm on the passenger side tore up as I was exiting a long curve at 110 mph. I was gently straightening up the car when the back started to wobble sideways pretty heavily. I managed to maintain control of the car and pitted in to find out what had happened.

As you can see on the picture, the trailing arm is completely torn up. It did not ruptured but had become completely useless.





I must say that it left me shocked since consequences could have been pretty bad this time. Sure, with coilovers the suspension is not stock and I am taking the F30 close to its limit, but I would not have imagined that it would be so fragile. The steel trailing arm really looks tacky and like it is not made of a 'performance' car. The comparison with the F8X parts is particularly striking. I know that this is the reason why you buy an M car, but I still had higher expectations of a standard 3er.

To make a long story short, I made up my mind and have no appetite for taking the F30 to the track again. I will return it to stock and keep enjoying it for daily driving and an occasional spirited drive, but there is too much to lose when things go wrong at -very- high speed.

The positive side of the day is that I was in fact at the track to put my E46 M3 to the test. I had a bunch of reliability issues (multiple SMG -I know - failures, water pump, etc.), my son had crashed it (nothing too bad) and I had given up on the idea of tracking it and was going to sell it soon. I had a change of heart and thought that since it was fixed, I might as well get a run for my money. The car did neither break down nor disappoint. It was fast, planted and consistent and as quick as the F30 when pushing it only at 7/10 of its capabilities. Taking the F30 to get a back to back comparison today was not a good idea.



I will not say that the F30 is a bad car and it is a much better option for -fast- daily driving than the old M3, so that is what I will exclusively use it for from now on.

Just read this and now you have me FREAKED!!

I'll have to upgrade these soon....I have the M Performance suspension though, not coilovers, so maybe there is a different approach?

[MickAv8r]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

I gave another shot at putting together track footage including telemetry from the MLaptimer app and using F30 gauges. I have no merit in doing this since I only used what had been developed by two great forum members.

How are you getting the telemetry out of the app? Would love to be able to do that because Im preferring that to using Harrys.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

It turns out that aftermarket replacement trailing arms are available for the F30, for instance from Megan racing for only ~$180 (not my favorite brand of products, but this is just an example).
I am going for an OEM part replacement since I am not planning on tracking the F30 in the future but I thought it could be of interest to those who are considering regular track duty with their F2X/F3X.

Just bought these, will post install and impressions so everyone knows how it goes...I didn't get any of the other 14 different Megan arms they offered, since this seems to be the weakest link.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Just bought these, will post install and impressions so everyone knows how it goes...I didn't get any of the other 14 different Megan arms they offered, since this seems to be the weakest link.

I was just looking at the RealOEM diagrams to see if swapping a M3 part in would work... it won't.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1818

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1602

The lower control arm is a very different design.

[MickAv8r]

I was under the car this evening looking at that arm. Looking at ATLBlues photo I can't really fathom how that occurred without the arm being damaged by debris or something.

I've been trying to decide if I should upgrade to the Megan arms or not, as I'm about to get an alignment done and figured it would be a good time to install if I was going to - but I'm leaning towards picking up an OEM as a 'spare' and just monitoring those arms during the course of the track season.

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by MickAv8r

How are you getting the telemetry out of the app? Would love to be able to do that because Im preferring that to using Harrys.

I am exporting the file to my Mac and run a Unix script written by a very cool forum member (Chris aka CP 1///M) that generates a .csv file that you can open with Excel, import in RaceRender 3 etc.

PM me if you want to know more.

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by MickAv8r

I was under the car this evening looking at that arm. Looking at ATLBlues photo I can't really fathom how that occurred without the arm being damaged by debris or something.

I've been trying to decide if I should upgrade to the Megan arms or not, as I'm about to get an alignment done and figured it would be a good time to install if I was going to - but I'm leaning towards picking up an OEM as a 'spare' and just monitoring those arms during the course of the track season.

I also do not understand how the arm has failed the way it did and am pretty sure I did not hit anything.
I read a post on another forum about someone who had the same kind of misfortune with a similar part on an E92 M3. In that case, it seems that the trailing arm is in fact designed to be the first to fail when the rear wheel experiences a side impact, in part to prevent the car from clipping something (like a curb) and roll over. The E92 part even has two notches in the middle of the link to artificially create stress concentrations.

[ATLBlue]

Back from the track... and a bit frustrated

As planned, I have started to track my E46 M3 and have been very pleased on a low speed/technical track where it was in fact as fast as the F30 without breaking a sweat.

I went to Road Atlanta this weekend and the outcome was quite different. There is no doubt that the M3 is more fun and feels more like a sports car. It even feels faster... but, to my surprise, it was not!

Trackdays are not races and I do not go there to get the best possible lap time. Still, I compared the telemetry (MLaptimer) from my previous week end with the F30 and the data I recorded with Harry's on the E46. I was quite surprised by the difference between the two. The following chart shows the speed of the F30 and the E46 during two quick laps.



The F30 went around the track in 1:45 while the E46 took 1:49 . Cornering speeds are the same and were pretty much limited by how much lateral grip the tires had. The E46 felt more planted though, and I could probably have gone a bit faster while the F30 had a lot more body roll and could have been unsettled more easily. But as soon as I hit a straight, the F30 would push much stronger and get me to significantly higher speeds (more than 10 mph faster at the end of the backstraight).

So what should I do now ?

Road Atlanta is definitely a track that gives an edge to cars with more power and the N55 with the Dinan tune (and maybe a few more hp coming with the AWE exhaust) beats the 160,000 miles old S54 hands down.
But the end game is not to get the best lap times. Compared to the F30, I went around the same track 10s faster in a 911S and Nissan GTRs would still pass me easily... There is always going to be another a car faster than yours.
So I will pick the fun factor over the better lap times and keep tracking the old M3.
I also think that with a bit more practice I could carry more speed through the corners and make up for the lower engine output.

But one thing remains sure, the F30 is no slouch

PS: once again, I used GoPro footage and the iMovie 'Adrenaline' trailer to edit a cheesy video. Childish, I know, but I could not resist

[shivaswrath]

Well the F30 is wicked fast, somehow BMW made it bigger, about the same weight, and faster.
I'd replace the part man!
I just got mine in the mail, I threw up a little when the Megan stickers fell out of the box, but they are solid pieces of steel-and blue, not purple like most of the pictures (phew).

[M-terkait]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Well the F30 is wicked fast, somehow BMW made it bigger, about the same weight, and faster.
I'd replace the part man!
I just got mine in the mail, I threw up a little when the Megan stickers fell out of the box, but they are solid pieces of steel-and blue, not purple like most of the pictures (phew).

they look nice for EB cars, hopefully it wouldn't introduce more noise through suspension.

[MickAv8r]

yeah cant wait to hear the review.