06-09-2018, 10:11 PM | #67 | |
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06-09-2018, 10:45 PM | #68 | |
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Drove manual transmissions for 25 years. My last 2 cars with 6-speed manuals were R53 first gen MINI Cooper S, for 9 years and combined 175K miles. It was fun, but I am now enjoying the lighting fast shifting and quick/efficient/smooth 8-speed ZF auto. When I feel the need to shift, I use the steering wheel paddles. Don't miss the clutch pedal at all.
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06-10-2018, 05:49 AM | #69 |
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This debate comes up frequently but my respond is: No DCT or AT is as involving as having the ability to actually decouple the engine and transmission and select the proper gear then reconnect the drivetrain. I get that some think this is ancient technology but for darn sure it’s great fun. And isn’t that what enthusiasts want in a car?
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06-10-2018, 01:43 PM | #70 | ||
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this idea that you don't 'enjoy' driving if you aren't in the 4% of cars equipped with a standard trans is ludicrous. Just because you think pushing in a clutch pedal and pulling on a lever every time you need to shift gears makes you the ultimate badass, or Mario Andretti or something, you don't get to tell people what they do and do not enjoy. I learned to drive a standard on a 72 VW bug 4 speed when I was 14 1/2. Drove a manual for 20+ years, much of that time in LA traffic. Big deal. Find something else to care about and lecture people on.
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Neat story, right? I really miss those days. I looked into that option in my house, vs. central heat and was told this wasn't possible. I explained that I was a heating/fuel enthusiast, but no bueno.. Quote:
I love this article, from back in 2012, jalopnik, racecar drivers talking about what kind of trans they have in their daily drivers. I wonder if F1 drivers or pro drag racers also feel less 'enthusiast like' with their auto equipped cars. If a slushbox or dual clutch is good enough for race car drivers, its good enough for me. https://jalopnik.com/5952924/mario-a...hat-they-drive
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06-10-2018, 03:10 PM | #71 | |
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06-10-2018, 03:32 PM | #72 |
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Your question 'isn't this what enthusiasts want in a car' is less of a question and more of a statement. So my argument is no, not necessarily. Driving a car with a manual transmission can be a lot of fun in some circumstances and a tedious, drag in others. At no point do I feel that way about the slushbox in my current car. Does what I want it to do, regardless of terrain or situation.
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06-10-2018, 05:57 PM | #73 | |
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Some people actually do still enjoy sending letters... like postcards. It's nostalgic. It's therapeutic. But that doesn't mean that people who use email aren't interested in engaging in friendly conversation just because they don't want to do it with snail mail, does it? I'm an enthusiast. I have many cars, and I've owned many cars in the past, most of them manuals. I don't think you know me enough to dictate what I do and do not want in a car.
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06-10-2018, 07:57 PM | #74 | |
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06-10-2018, 08:00 PM | #75 | |
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06-11-2018, 10:07 AM | #76 |
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I believe Michael's views are more in line with those of a purist. I am cool with that and can see where he is coming from.
What I am having a bit more of an issue reconciling is his statement about "Resenting" those who prefer or admire modern automatics. No need to make it personal. We all like what we like but there is an undeniable fact that present day slushboxes like the 8-Speed ZF in our cars are brilliant, efficient, quick and incredibly smooth. No human will ever be able to shift up or down that quickly, efficiently and smoothly. These transmissions are a work of engineering. Once upon a time manuals were associated with efficiency and fuel economy. Not any longer. Yes they can be entertaining in a twisty road or a canyon road, but more of a nuisance in heavy, stop and go traffic. They no longer have a compelling reason to exist and they appeal to a tiny fragment of the car buying public. The car industry is swiftly moving away from them. Sir Alec Issigonis, the designing father of the Mini Cooper, used to call the manual transmission, "The barbaric stick". This was around 1961 when he made that statement...
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06-11-2018, 01:07 PM | #77 |
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I didn't own an automatic until I got married at age 34. Kept my 1991 Integra 5 speed MT until we had to get a van in 2000. I like driving manuals because they make you think. You're a part of the process in partnership with the car.
I recently test drove an F30 320i MT and a 2017 GTI MT. They didn't feel like I remember the MTs I had in the past. They just didn't have that reassuring, positive engagement on the upshift that I loved in my past MTs. Also, the engagement was more vague from a standing start in first gear. Clutch delay valve to blame? A couple of other things I took from the F30 MT test drive: There was quite a bit of vibration coming through the shifter. I don't remember that from my MTs of the past. Also, naturally, at freeway speeds the engine RPM is much higher than with an AT, increasing cabin noise and lowering efficiency. Lastly, in the F30, because of my size 13 land barges I found that when releasing the clutch the outer edge of my left foot would get caught on the right side edge of the dead pedal. |
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06-11-2018, 03:31 PM | #78 |
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Another tiring AT/MT thread has spawned.
[IMG]https://giphy.com/gifs/week-media-person-RL0xU1daTlMoE[/IMG] Preference doesn't always need to be met by boring metrics and works cited bound by caustic remarks. Today I found out I was a barbarian, amongst other things, for having a car equipped 1% differently.
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06-11-2018, 06:19 PM | #79 |
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Sucks but that is apparently life. Bring on the electric and autonomous cars.
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06-11-2018, 07:00 PM | #80 | |
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06-12-2018, 07:30 AM | #81 | ||
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06-12-2018, 08:08 AM | #82 |
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I am in a 330 2018 xdrive loaner specd at 55000. It has no adaptive steering or adaptive suspension and it makes a lot of difference in the drive. I don't feel confident at high speeds with the regular suspension and floaty steering. And those brakes make a difference as well.
The led headlights are terrible. It feels spotty as in brighter and darker when against a wall like I am looking at a leopard hide. And not as uniform and bright. They are white though. On the plus side, Better idrive, and engine notes. |
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06-12-2018, 09:44 AM | #83 | |
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We’re currently seeing something similar with throttle blipping automation right now, too. Anyway, I do find MTs to be fun although I haven’t had an MT car for a good 20 years. I’d love to get another one but unfortunately my wife doesn’t know how to drive them and we share our cars. And yeah, back when I had an MT I used to double-clutch and blip just because it was fun and gave me something to do. If I got a modern MT but gave up double-clutching and (manually) blipping that does actually seem like losing half the fun. Just shifting alone doesn’t feel like it takes much skill, but double-clutching while heel and toeing to hit a perfectly rev-matched downshift is da bomb. |
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06-12-2018, 09:51 AM | #84 |
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you all done dogging my ride now?
unless you have crank windows, you're not the purist they're looking for |
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06-12-2018, 03:27 PM | #85 |
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On new BMW's the headlights turn when you turn the steering wheel. That's gotta be worth $6,000 right there right?
Also, the cruise control is best in class. (facepalm) |
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06-12-2018, 05:08 PM | #86 |
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Actually, I find that the adaptive cruise on BMWs functions very very well compared to the others I have tried.
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06-13-2018, 11:35 AM | #88 |
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Sadly, I can't say that about the Caddies as that AC stunk after year one then the leather/new car scent after 2 or so haha
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That seat was meant to be used, are you going to deny it's purpose in life? |
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