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      01-19-2012, 04:01 PM   #45
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Very nice looking car. But what is the point? They are already making a 6er GC...I don't see what this 3/4er GC will compete with. The CLS and A7 are in the same class as the 6er GC.
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      01-19-2012, 04:29 PM   #46
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A5 Sportback, and to a lesser degree perhaps, VW CC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshab356 View Post
But what is the point? They are already making a 6er GC...I don't see what this 3/4er GC will compete with. The CLS and A7 are in the same class as the 6er GC.
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      01-19-2012, 04:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshab356 View Post
Very nice looking car. But what is the point? They are already making a 6er GC...I don't see what this 3/4er GC will compete with. The CLS and A7 are in the same class as the 6er GC.
The 6 Series Gran Coupe will doubtless cost ALOT more than this. In Europe we get other 4 door coupe versions of cars that do compete with the 3 series.

Also, why must every car have competitors?
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      01-19-2012, 05:03 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Just look at the 5 and 6 series for the precedent:

5 - sedan, touring, GT
6 - coupe, cabrio, GC

You can apply the same pattern to the 3 and 4 series, and at least partially, to the 1 and 2 series (no 1 series sedan or touring, at least not for this generation).
A 2er Gran Coupe was considered but BMW have now rejected any proposal. relying on the 2er Coupe and Cabrio and alternative Roadster and Coupe to satisfy the needs of enthusiasts. Although Audi are introducing an A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz with its baby CLS the CLC.
They will impact on the profitability of the C-Klasse and A4 respectively , especially when fleet sales are considered which is why BMW did not want a four door 1er either in previous generation or current to impact on lower engined 3er's either in E90 and now the F30. These fleet sales are crucial to BMW.

BMW see the 1er as the "Alternative" to what you get with the competition.
Which is why the emphasis is on the Sporthatch and Coupe and Cabrio.
This time around a Touring will be satisfied by the introduction of the BMW FAST Family Activity Sports Tourer - A three concept FWD/AWD variant that mixes the commanding aura of an SAV, The looks of a higher riding Touring and the space of an MPV which is very crucial market within Europe. And the Compactive Sports Tourer - BMW's answer to the B-Klasse , Mercedes-Benz again another crucial market for BMW.

Because of BMW's unique platform flexibility with the modular matrix that supports its own individual wheelbase , track width and RWD/AWD. Currently the 5 6 7 supports ten BMW models - 5er ,5erLi , 5er Touring , 5er GT , 6er Coupe , 6er Cabrio , 6er Gran Coupe , 7er , 7er Li. It is easy for BMW to adapt more variants via this flexibility.

The BMW 1er and 3er also adopt a similar strategy which will see even more variants adapted from. The matrix under the 1er and 3er can also be adapted to FWD which BMW will underpin its small Sub-1er City Compact and its subsequent variants along with the MINI family.

A 4er Gran Coupe is considered because of the scope of flexibility on the platform.
In style 4er Gran Coupe will be a 4er Coupe with standard front and rear styling, it will adopt a longer , flatter roof , conventional B-pillar and rear doors. The Platform for the Gran Coupe arrives from the China-only market 3er Li in a shortened version which is also found underneath the Gran Turismo 3er. This will benefit the interior and the length will provide adequate seating for four adults. In height the 6er Gran Coupe is lower than the new 3er (F30) current Coupe (E92) , 5er and 7er. The 4er Gran Coupe will be a few inches shorter than the 6er Gran Coupe.

Although a 4er Gran Coupe is not entirely a new idea. BMW did build a design proposal model of a four door E92 in 2005 but was rejected in favour of a more upmarket approach which eventually led to the illfated 2007 CS Concept. Which had the economic crisis not occurred , we would be seeing the production car around now. The 6er Gran Coupe is the "replacement" for the CS if you will. But with the next generation 7er they would like to bring a similar CS option to the 7er.

Another Option being considered and will be shown first as a 6er is a Shooting Brake model. encompassing the attributes of the Gran Coupe but with a larger load area and sleek sloping roof making it lower than a conventional wagon. And especially in markets where the wagon is all but dead thanks to the larger SAV options. Shooting Brake could be offered as a more sportier concept than a regular wagon. Again a 4er Shooting Brake in hypothetical terms could be considered thanks to the modular platform flexibility.

Because of each model having its own unique wheelbase under the platform flexibility. It means BMW can maximize profitability on each model also it is easy to adapt each model to have its own unique dynamics and still be ablt cater for enthusiasts. As this is not one standard platform shared across multiple brands.
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      01-19-2012, 05:18 PM   #49
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Very strongly considering this over the m3/m4 next gen coupe that I was thinking about before i saw this.

Looks great and the M will be bad ass as hell.
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      01-19-2012, 05:45 PM   #50
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Well, I'm kinda broke and can't even afford the 1 series. Will BMW be making a half series (1/2 28i) for people in my situation?
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      01-19-2012, 06:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
Well, I'm kinda broke and can't even afford the 1 series. Will BMW be making a half series (1/2 28i) for people in my situation?
Yes, look here:
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html
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      01-19-2012, 06:17 PM   #52
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2 wheels and no doors. Not even a transistor radio.

Something like the Isetta would be nice.
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      01-19-2012, 09:24 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami
Interesting. So will the F32 4-series GC will have less interior space than the F30 3-series sedan, or will it slot in exactly between the F30 and the F10 in terms of length and interior space?

For E90 M3 owners who plan on upgrading to the next-generation M3 sedan, I'll be interested to see who opts for the F80 vs. the F82 GC.
^ +1
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      01-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
The 6 Series Gran Coupe will doubtless cost ALOT more than this. In Europe we get other 4 door coupe versions of cars that do compete with the 3 series.

Also, why must every car have competitors?
I see. I never said that it needs to have a competitor, I was just curious as to what it would compete with here in the US.
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      01-20-2012, 02:07 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
A 4er Gran Coupe is considered because of the scope of flexibility on the platform.
In style 4er Gran Coupe will be a 4er Coupe with standard front and rear styling, it will adopt a longer , flatter roof , conventional B-pillar and rear doors. The Platform for the Gran Coupe arrives from the China-only market 3er Li in a shortened version which is also found underneath the Gran Turismo 3er. This will benefit the interior and the length will provide adequate seating for four adults. In height the 6er Gran Coupe is lower than the new 3er (F30) current Coupe (E92) , 5er and 7er. The 4er Gran Coupe will be a few inches shorter than the 6er Gran Coupe...

The 6er Gran Coupe is the "replacement" for the CS if you will. But with the next generation 7er they would like to bring a similar CS option to the 7er...
Thank you Scott for the informative insiders post.

I'm happy to see BMW building a 4er Gran Coupe. While the 6er Gran Coupe looks sleeker vs a standard BMW sedan, it also appears massive in size. I can only imagine how large a CS 7er will look if it sits above the 6GC model.

A lighter, scaled down version sitting low to the ground would probably appeal to a wider audience. Not to mention the price point would be more affordable (?$100K for 6GC vs ?$60K 4GC).
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      01-20-2012, 09:54 AM   #56
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I think it's stunning! Keep the news coming Scott!
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      01-20-2012, 09:58 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
A 2er Gran Coupe was considered but BMW have now rejected any proposal. relying on the 2er Coupe and Cabrio and alternative Roadster and Coupe to satisfy the needs of enthusiasts. Although Audi are introducing an A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz with its baby CLS the CLC.

They will impact on the profitability of the C-Klasse and A4 respectively , especially when fleet sales are considered which is why BMW did not want a four door 1er either in previous generation or current to impact on lower engined 3er's either in E90 and now the F30. These fleet sales are crucial to BMW.
Thanks for the great information, SCOTT, I really appreciate your contributions to this site.

While I can appreciate BMW's challenge as far as the need to bolster 3 series volume with fleet sales in order to maximize profitability from that product range, I do find the situation just a little unfortunate. As you note, the A3 sedan and CLC sedan are on the way. And as the 3 series edges up in size with each generation, the need for a smaller four door offering to slot in below becomes greater and greater. For markets where hatchbacks are not preferred form and factor or - in some cases -do not sell in enough volume to even make a case to be offered at all, a 1 series sedan (or at least a 2 series GC) seems inevitable at some point in the future in order for BMW to maintain its market share. This means that BMW will likely have to - at some point - find a way to maintain the 3 series profitablility in the face of sibling competition from a would-be 1 series sedan.

Quote:
BMW see the 1er as the "Alternative" to what you get with the competition. Which is why the emphasis is on the Sporthatch and Coupe and Cabrio. This time around a Touring will be satisfied by the introduction of the BMW FAST Family Activity Sports Tourer - A three concept FWD/AWD variant that mixes the commanding aura of an SAV, The looks of a higher riding Touring and the space of an MPV which is very crucial market within Europe. And the Compactive Sports Tourer - BMW's answer to the B-Klasse , Mercedes-Benz again another crucial market for BMW.
Those will no doubt be fine products, but I do see that you mention Europe specifically. Will either of these be available in the US? And even if they are, will they be the right vehicles to go up against the new smaller, entry level sedans from the competition as discussed above? With the luxury sales race so tight in the US, I am not convinced BMW's lineup is going to keep them in the lead as the current and planned F2x/F3x product range shapes up throughout the remainder of the decade.
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      01-20-2012, 11:02 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

A 4er Gran Coupe is considered because of the scope of flexibility on the platform.
In style 4er Gran Coupe will be a 4er Coupe with standard front and rear styling, it will adopt a longer , flatter roof , conventional B-pillar and rear doors. The Platform for the Gran Coupe arrives from the China-only market 3er Li in a shortened version which is also found underneath the Gran Turismo 3er. This will benefit the interior and the length will provide adequate seating for four adults. In height the 6er Gran Coupe is lower than the new 3er (F30) current Coupe (E92) , 5er and 7er. The 4er Gran Coupe will be a few inches shorter than the 6er Gran Coupe.
Scott,

Please help me get this straight. At maturity, what will be the complete 3/4-Series offering? Please correct if necessary.

3-Series...
1) Coupe, 2-door (F32)
2) Sedan, 4-door (F30) (with Li option in Asia)
3) Convertible, 2-door (F33)
4) Wagon, 5-door (F31)
5) Grand Turismo, 5-door hatchback (in the spirit of the controversial 5-Series GT)

4-Series...
1) 2-door Coupe
2) 4-door Gran Coupe
3) 2-door Cabrio, hardtop convertible.
.
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Last edited by James T. Kirk; 01-20-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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      01-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #59
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My understanding is that we will have:

3 Series: Sedan, Touring, GT.
4 Series: Coupe, Gran Coupe, Convertible.

Then M3 Sedan, M4 Coupe, Gran Coupe and Convertible? Not sure about this yet.
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      01-20-2012, 12:16 PM   #60
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3-Series...
1) Coupe, 2-door (F32) .... NO, its an 4er Series !!!
2) Sedan, 4-door (F30) (with Li option in Asia)
3) Convertible, 2-door (F33) ... NO, its an 4er Series !!!
4) Wagon, 5-door (F31)
5) Grand Turismo, 5-door hatchback (in the spirit of the controversial 5-Series GT) .... NO, its not in the spirit of the 5er GT ... its a A5 Sportback look-a-like (F35)

4-Series...
1) 2-door Coupe (F32)
2) 4-door Gran Coupe (F36)
3) 2-door Cabrio, hardtop convertible. (F33)
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      01-20-2012, 01:17 PM   #61
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Fixed it for you. As I said in a post above, its the same as what we have today for the 5 and 6 series.

I am however, still very curious about the chassis codes for the rest of the vehicles. I have heard F34 and F35, but don't know which goes on which, and also the "Li" very likely has its own code as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
3-Series...
1) Sedan, 4-door (F30) (with Li option in Asia)
2) Wagon, 5-door (F31)
3) Grand Turismo, 5-door hatchback

4-Series...
1) 2-door Coupe (F32)
2) 2-door Cabrio, hardtop convertible (F33)
3) 4-door Gran Coupe
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      01-20-2012, 01:19 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust View Post
Then M3 Sedan, M4 Coupe, Gran Coupe and Convertible? Not sure about this yet.
Yep. An M3 touring or GT is still theoretically possible, but I think SCOTT already said they rejected the idea of the latter. And they've never built an M3 touring before, so it's probably not likely to happen. It would be great if they did it though.
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      01-21-2012, 02:12 AM   #63
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Not bad, still gotta see the actual but nice render
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      01-22-2012, 09:25 PM   #64
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I was really hoping the 4er would have a front end closer to the E92 or the new 5 or 6...not the new 3er. But if this is a grand coupe render Scott is floating then it looks like we're stuck with it.

I still want to know what the pricing is going to be like on the 4. It SHOULD just be a couple thousand more unless they decide they want to charge more because it's now a "4".
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      01-24-2012, 03:05 PM   #65
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Those headlights...

Is it me, or are the headlights seriously taking away from the F30? When I first saw the release pictures, I was really put off until I used a finger to cover up the bit of the headlight that connects it to the grill. Without that, I think it could be a properly good looking car. Until that happy day comes, I still say the E92 is miles better looking
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      01-24-2012, 03:48 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
I was really hoping the 4er would have a front end closer to the E92 or the new 5 or 6...not the new 3er. But if this is a grand coupe render Scott is floating then it looks like we're stuck with it.

I still want to know what the pricing is going to be like on the 4. It SHOULD just be a couple thousand more unless they decide they want to charge more because it's now a "4".
The 3er and 4er will still share many components regardless of the new numbering, so you have to expect them to look quite similar.

Keep in mind, the new 3er nose is modeled after the i8, so many newer models may take these cues in the future, the f30 just happens to be the first. While i dont love it, its growing on me, especially in the Msport guise.

Pricing is difficult to predict but its not necessary that the 4er is more than the 3er just based on the Series number, per se, but of course it depending on the exact model and options. For ex, the 6er when nicely optioned can be more expensive than the 7er, and im certain the there will be 3ers out that will be more than the 4er --however, in the case of the GC though, it will likely be more than most 3ers - who knows, they may only reserve this model for as the highest offering in the series, ie it may only be available as a 435i and thus more expensive than a similarly optioned F30 335i based on how the 6er GC is significantly more than the 2door 6er even at MSRP. Id assume this to be the same situation as they cant price the f30 335i and a fxx 435i GC the same or they'd be competing against themselves for sales.
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