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      10-08-2020, 02:35 AM   #1
jackstrath
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Improve pedal feel/cold bite

So, Iv a 2016 340i, blue msport brakes.

Ever since Iv had the car Iv thought the brakes were a bit meh, looked better than the worked was my initial impressions, the car was coming up for its brake fluid flush so was hoping that would change things as the fluid was pretty dark looking so figured it was due a bleed/fresh fluid.

Got that done and the pedal feel didnít really change much
Sooo figured since Iíd had good results with previous cars I bought a set of DS2500ís and installed them (new pads front and back).

Gave the disks a good scrub up to remove any old pad transfer and set about bedding in the DS2500ís as per recommended.

Fast forward to today, about 200 miles on the new pads and the pedal / cold bite is still very meh.... now I know performance pads can some times trade of cold bite performance vs high temp performance, and the brakes do work and fade isnít really became an issue yet, but Iím just a bit disappointed on how poor the pedal feel is.....

Normally decent pads and fluid and Iím happy enough with my road cars pedal feel but this car isnít like that.... Iím half tempted to try bleed the brakes my self as they do feel a bit numb.

Anyone else running DS2500ís and find the brakes much the same as oem pads?

I didnít think in this day and age (and mainly because my E91 335d didnít) need braided brake lines unless track work was your plan... but starting to think it might be the only thing that might help in my case.
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      10-11-2020, 05:41 PM   #2
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Anyone?
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      10-11-2020, 07:11 PM   #3
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OE pads have all the cold bite you need. That's why they are OE, and the reason they create so much dust. The pagid pads yoh have are definitely not like OE pads.
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      10-11-2020, 08:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
So, Iv a 2016 340i, blue msport brakes.

Ever since Iv had the car Iv thought the brakes were a bit meh, looked better than the worked was my initial impressions, the car was coming up for its brake fluid flush so was hoping that would change things as the fluid was pretty dark looking so figured it was due a bleed/fresh fluid.

Got that done and the pedal feel didn’t really change much
Sooo figured since I’d had good results with previous cars I bought a set of DS2500’s and installed them (new pads front and back).

Gave the disks a good scrub up to remove any old pad transfer and set about bedding in the DS2500’s as per recommended.

Fast forward to today, about 200 miles on the new pads and the pedal / cold bite is still very meh.... now I know performance pads can some times trade of cold bite performance vs high temp performance, and the brakes do work and fade isn’t really became an issue yet, but I’m just a bit disappointed on how poor the pedal feel is.....

Normally decent pads and fluid and I’m happy enough with my road cars pedal feel but this car isn’t like that.... I’m half tempted to try bleed the brakes my self as they do feel a bit numb.

Anyone else running DS2500’s and find the brakes much the same as oem pads?

I didn’t think in this day and age (and mainly because my E91 335d didn’t) need braided brake lines unless track work was your plan... but starting to think it might be the only thing that might help in my case.
You are really describing two issues: brake pad bite and brake pedal mush.

Brake pedal mush is easily solved by replacing rubber hoses with stainless steel brake lines. Labor is negligible if done at same time as brake fluid replacement. See photo for part numbers for StopTech SS Lines which I've used for a couple years. There are several brands of SS lines available for the F3x.

Brake pad bite is a function of pads and rotors. BMW pads are no better than average bite. Hawk 5.0 pads have the best bite by far and instant warm up. See photo for part numbers. A 340i with blue M Sport Brakes has Front 370mm and Rear 345mm brakes.

Plain rotors have average bite. If you look at street performance models from Porsche, Mercedes, McLaren, etc they use crossdrilled rotors. Crossdrilled have best bite by far and they are superior in rain because water can't trap between pad and rotor surfaces. Even replacing just front rotors with crossdrilled can help a lot because fronts do much of the work. The combination of Hawk 5.0 pads with crossdrilled rotors provide incredible bite.

For instance, Zimmermann has a Front crossdrilled Rotor in 370x30, part number 150.2911.52 for ~$113 each the last Tim I checked price.

StopTech makes a beautiful set of directional crossdrilled:
Front 370x30
128.34144L
128.34144R

Rear 345x24
128.34147L
128.34147R

The Zimmermann crossdrilled part number is more readily available in Europe and the StopTech and Hawk products are more readily available in the US.

If you are in Europe, Zeckhausen Racing ships from US, takes ~5 days. See website and contact them for information.

https://www.zeckhausen.com/

Hope this helps!
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      10-11-2020, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
OE pads have all the cold bite you need. That's why they are OE, and the reason they create so much dust. The pagid pads yoh have are definitely not like OE pads.
Not sure where pagid was said? And OE Pads should have good cold bite but this issue was here before the pad change

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You are really describing two issues: brake pad bite and brake pedal mush.

Brake pedal mush is easily solved by replacing rubber hoses with stainless steel brake lines. Labor is negligible if done at same time as brake fluid replacement. See photo for part numbers for StopTech SS Lines which I've used for a couple years. There are several brands of SS lines available for the F3x.

Brake pad bite is a function of pads and rotors. BMW pads are no better than average bite. Hawk 5.0 pads have the best bite by far and instant warm up. See photo for part numbers. A 340i with blue M Sport Brakes has Front 370mm and Rear 345mm brakes.

Plain rotors have average bite. If you look at street performance models from Porsche, Mercedes, McLaren, etc they use crossdrilled rotors. Crossdrilled have best bite by far and they are superior in rain because water can't trap between pad and rotor surfaces. Even replacing just front rotors with crossdrilled can help a lot because fronts do much of the work. The combination of Hawk 5.0 pads with crossdrilled rotors provide incredible bite.

Hope this helps!
It is two issues although both are related, I honestly thought in this day and age "mush" wouldnt be a thing on fairly new brake lines.

At this moment in time im not looking to change the pads, like i said i dont think this is as much a pad issue as you would think. Im gonna try bleed the brakes first as thats free, then look at changing the lines if your saying that solved your issue, we have loads 2 main companys here in the Uk that do lines for the car so getting them wont be an issue.

Just a bit disapointed tbh wondering if maybe they are just a bit over servo assisted, the e91 335d was never like this.

I have a feeling il be picking up some lines in the black friday sales.
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      10-11-2020, 10:22 PM   #6
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Oops meant Ferodo
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      10-12-2020, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
So, Iv a 2016 340i, blue msport brakes.

Ever since Iv had the car Iv thought the brakes were a bit meh, looked better than the worked was my initial impressions, the car was coming up for its brake fluid flush so was hoping that would change things as the fluid was pretty dark looking so figured it was due a bleed/fresh fluid.

Got that done and the pedal feel didn’t really change much
Sooo figured since I’d had good results with previous cars I bought a set of DS2500’s and installed them (new pads front and back).

Gave the disks a good scrub up to remove any old pad transfer and set about bedding in the DS2500’s as per recommended.

Fast forward to today, about 200 miles on the new pads and the pedal / cold bite is still very meh.... now I know performance pads can some times trade of cold bite performance vs high temp performance, and the brakes do work and fade isn’t really became an issue yet, but I’m just a bit disappointed on how poor the pedal feel is.....

Normally decent pads and fluid and I’m happy enough with my road cars pedal feel but this car isn’t like that.... I’m half tempted to try bleed the brakes my self as they do feel a bit numb.

Anyone else running DS2500’s and find the brakes much the same as oem pads?

I didn’t think in this day and age (and mainly because my E91 335d didn’t) need braided brake lines unless track work was your plan... but starting to think it might be the only thing that might help in my case.
I have been using the DS2500's for about 2 years now on my frequently tracked daily driver, and I am very happy with their performance. They have good initial bite, and have never faded on me, even after a full 1 hour session. Have only done this 3 or 4 times, but still...

As stated by others here cross drilled, dimpled, and or slotted rotors would improve performance a lot, but I get the impression that you do not track your car, and are looking for a more economical solution which leaves you with 2 options. Better brake fluid, and stainless steel brake lines. You did not state which brake fluid you used, but what will help (if you did not use it) is a good quality DOT-4 "high temperature" fluid which is made by several manufacturers. The 2 best are Motul 660 and Castrol SRF, but others are used with good results as well. All of them are more expensive than regular brake fluid, but are well worth it.

Stainless steel brake lines can also improve pedal feel, and are not very expensive so why not. Especially if you are changing the fluid at the same time.

Hopefully these changes will work for you, but if not then you might try changing to the Hawk 5.0 pads. I have not tried them myself, but many people swear by them. Good luck.
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      10-12-2020, 01:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer 2019 View Post
I have been using the DS2500's for about 2 years now on my frequently tracked daily driver, and I am very happy with their performance. They have good initial bite, and have never faded on me, even after a full 1 hour session. Have only done this 3 or 4 times, but still...

As stated by others here cross drilled, dimpled, and or slotted rotors would improve performance a lot, but I get the impression that you do not track your car, and are looking for a more economical solution which leaves you with 2 options. Better brake fluid, and stainless steel brake lines. You did not state which brake fluid you used, but what will help (if you did not use it) is a good quality DOT-4 "high temperature" fluid which is made by several manufacturers. The 2 best are Motul 660 and Castrol SRF, but others are used with good results as well. All of them are more expensive than regular brake fluid, but are well worth it.

Stainless steel brake lines can also improve pedal feel, and are not very expensive so why not. Especially if you are changing the fluid at the same time.

Hopefully these changes will work for you, but if not then you might try changing to the Hawk 5.0 pads. I have not tried them myself, but many people swear by them. Good luck.
Yeh iv used DS2500's for about 10 years now, first on my track car before it went more extrem and then latterly in my 335d which i had for 5 years, again no issues.

Im not a brake noob btw, iv got a 500bhp focus RS that i race with AP racing brakes, slotted rotors, SS lines and run castrol SRF in it... but at £45 a Ltr its expensive stuff.

Brake fade hasnt been an issue (old pads) and i havnt really gave the new pads a hammering yet to say if it will be (but im not expecting them to be tbh)
The fluid was what ever bmw use as it was done as part of the service with them, Its still fresh as my fluid tester said it had less than 1.5% water content which is expected seeing as its only a year old fluid.
Dont want to go down the slotted route, for a daily drive that enjoys a bit of sprinted driving every now and then but no track work its an expensive option to a problem i feel i shouldnt have.

Think im going to bleed the system, then try lines, il report back my findings!
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      01-19-2021, 04:41 AM   #9
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planning also to upgrade my disc with this, but now i hear people saying, this is a 1-piece disc compared to the oem 2-piece disc or other 2-piece disc .

is the stoptech disc a good choice, of better stick to oem or other 2-piece disc suppliers ?

my car is a bw m240i xdrive 2017

regards
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      01-21-2021, 02:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
planning also to upgrade my disc with this, but now i hear people saying, this is a 1-piece disc compared to the oem 2-piece disc or other 2-piece disc .

is the stoptech disc a good choice, of better stick to oem or other 2-piece disc suppliers ?

my car is a bw m240i xdrive 2017

regards
nobody driving with the Stoptech disc who can give me a hint
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      01-21-2021, 10:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
planning also to upgrade my disc with this, but now i hear people saying, this is a 1-piece disc compared to the oem 2-piece disc or other 2-piece disc .

is the stoptech disc a good choice, of better stick to oem or other 2-piece disc suppliers ?

my car is a bw m240i xdrive 2017

regards
The OEM discs are 2 piece semi floating, and the Stop Tech are single piece. If you compare them Apples to Apples (dimpled and slotted), both work equally well. The differences are 1. esthetic (OEM bare aluminum hat vs ST black painted hat). 2. price (ST less expensive than OEM). 3. OEM weighs less (this only matters if you are serious about tracking your car, and yes there are many of us who are that anal retentive about weight on track).
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Last edited by Boomer 2019; 01-21-2021 at 08:39 PM..
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      01-24-2021, 10:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer 2019 View Post
The OEM discs are 2 piece semi floating, and the Stop Tech are single piece. If you compare them Apples to Apples (dimpled and slotted), both work equally well. The differences are 1. esthetic (OEM bare aluminum hat vs ST black painted hat). 2. price (ST less expensive than OEM). 3. OEM weighs less (this only matters if you are serious about tracking your car, and yes there are many of us who are that anal retentive about weight on track).
thanks for explaining.. i also got a good deal for Textar Pro + rotors, combined with EBC Yellow...

But i can not find any review people driving with this brake disc
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