[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by alohasurftoad

the UK shop is informed correctly. i've been on this forum for 5 years and read numerous quality and fitment issues with all of the products that they make. i wouldn't use their stuff even if they paid me to...

i'm not sure if this is big enough but this intercooler is high quality...https://www.atmspeedshop.com/collect...5i-intercooler

Dinan makes a big intercooler to consider...https://www.dinancars.com/products/e...arts/D330-0021

Lol. Don’t listen to this person.

The ATM only cools a few degrees more than the Evo2. The Dinan is barely better than the Evo 2, and costs even more. Avoid.

OP gave his review with logs and someone else with no experience, no logs and 5 year old information comes in and says otherwise. Who are you going to believe?

[miksebik]

OK, thanks for feedback, here is news from my part :-) The shop I am helping to mod the F30 335xi ordered the Wagner EVO3 and they will try to put it in.. I will tell you.
In worst case, this beast will end in my E92 335i :-D

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by miksebik

OK, thanks for feedback, here is news from my part :-) The shop I am helping to mod the F30 335xi ordered the Wagner EVO3 and they will try to put it in.. I will tell you.
In worst case, this beast will end in my E92 335i :-D

It’s not as good, and it costs more - but it’s should be absolutely more effective than that garbage Evo2.
I double checked and you and I have had this conversation more than once - my answers have not changed.

Also 90% sure it will not fit a E series. Good luck.

[AmuroRay]

Sorry to the OP - but I HATE, literally despise they type of misinformation going on here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971
Evo 2 getting beat in every single performance metric by the ATM. Maximum delta in cooling about "7-11 degrees" per the tester.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=310
Per VRSF's claims - the Competition 6.5 cools better than any other similar sized cooler, including ATM, and CSF (he names CFS in another post)

Finally

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=473

VRSF race log - complete with a comparison vs the Evo2. (spoilers - the EVO2 isn't that good)

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=589
dinan vs Evo 2 (spoilers - neither is that great)

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Sorry to the OP - but I HATE, literally despise they type of misinformation going on here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971
Evo 2 getting beat in every single performance metric by the ATM. Maximum delta in cooling about "7-11 degrees" per the tester.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...;postcount=310
Per VRSF's claims - the Competition 6.5 cools better than any other similar sized cooler, including ATM, and CSF (he names CFS in another post)

Finally

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...;postcount=473

VRSF race log - complete with a comparison vs the Evo2. (spoilers - the EVO2 isn't that good)

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...;postcount=589
dinan vs Evo 2 (spoilers - neither is that great)

This g spittin

[XutvJet]

VRSF is well known amongst the BMW forums as having consistent fit and finish and quality control......said no one ever.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

VRSF is well known amongst the BMW forums as having consistent fit and finish and quality control......said no one ever.

But sometimes you have to play russian roulette because the risk is worth the reward?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

VRSF is well known amongst the BMW forums as having consistent fit and finish and quality control......said no one ever.

I'm not even a VRSF fan - but the reviews I read where "this IC didn't come with tabs to hold the shroud on my specific model" and "My IC had bent fins on delivery"

The first one is not unique to VRSF - even CFS had issues with mounting points because the test vehicle was slightly different from the vehicle it was being installed on.

The second issue on shipping - not having received any of their products, I can't say how poorly they are packaged. I would be annoyed receiving a damaged product, but to me, that doesn't reflect on how well the part performs.

Then again, there are people here who care more about "bling" and "Name" then actual function.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Then again, there are people here who care more about "bling" and "Name" then actual function.

I've been modding cars since the mid-1990s. The term "you get what you pay for" rings loud and true with a majority of aftermarket car parts, especially those built in a jig. I've wasted so much money and time dealing with ill-fitting parts over the years. The majority of the time it's the cheaper parts that fit poorly, but I've been burned by some of the more expensive ones too.

On paper, an exhaust, IC, or charge pipe are simply metal parts and pipes with no moving parts. However, the spaces they fit in and things they connect to have very tight tolerances. Also, these parts are also directly connected to things that move and shift during driving thus further complicating tolerances. These tolerances is where the cheaper brands tend to trail the most expensive versions.

Like noted above, some are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best. Others may be willing to pay 20%-30% for the peace of mind that the part will likely fit perfectly.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I've been modding cars since the mid-1990s. The term "you get what you pay for" rings loud and true with a majority of aftermarket car parts, especially those built in a jig. I've waste so much money and time dealing with ill-fitting parts over the years. The majority of the time it's the cheaper parts that fit poorly, but I've been burned by some of the more expensive ones too.

On paper, an exhaust, IC, or charge pipe are simply metal parts and pipes with no moving parts. However, the spaces they fit in and things they connect to have very tight tolerances. Also, these parts are also directly connected to things that move and shift during driving thus further complicating tolerances. These tolerances is where the cheaper brands tend to train the most expensive versions.

Like noted above, some are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best. Others may be willing to pay 20%-30% for the peace of mind that the part will likely fit perfectly.

This is all true. The decision just becomes a little more complicated in a situation where there really isn't a more expensive/"higher quality" alternative that provides a comparable level of performance but from a manufacturer that is regarded as having better QC and fit/finish. Yes, there are other big ICs, but its not like a charge pipe where there are dozens of options to choose from and enough market penetration to determine which brands are likely to have issues. So if you want an equivalent IC, you may not have that 20-30% more expensive alternative with a greater chance of better fit (except maybe evo3 or one other i think).

Anyways, I dont think Amuro or anyone else here (on the topic of this thread) was even talking about the fitment of this IC. The discussion was more about the actual performance of the IC, and recently as it relates to other ICs, mostly in terms of IATs. VRSF's reputation is sufficiently known, and I was one of the unlucky ones who got a IC with a cold side connection that was out of spec and it costs me easily 15 hours of removal/reinstall time, research, building boost leak tester, ordering custom orings, etc to get the problem solved. So i am fully aware, but this is just off topic for the thread.

[miksebik]

So... another update. The EVO3 we wanted is not in stock anywhere.. They will make new batch in January. There is the F2x version, which is much more expensive. And even though it might be interesting to give it a try, it is VRSF Race intercooler, that was ordered. Unless there is something really bad with the IC, I do not have fear about the install. The shop is used to improvise a lot, as they built few race (drifting) cars.

[miksebik]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It’s not as good, and it costs more - but it’s should be absolutely more effective than that garbage Evo2.
I double checked and you and I have had this conversation more than once - my answers have not changed.

Also 90% sure it will not fit a E series. Good luck.

yeah, you are right. I already asked about high IATs and you answered before (thanks). Then there were some issues with the car so I returned to the IC stuff now, unfortunately I was puzzled by this UK shop that decided to stop selling VRSF products.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by miksebik

So... another update. The EVO3 we wanted is not in stock anywhere.. They will make new batch in January. There is the F2x version, which is much more expensive. And even though it might be interesting to give it a try, it is VRSF Race intercooler, that was ordered. Unless there is something really bad with the IC, I do not have fear about the install. The shop is used to improvise a lot, as they built few race (drifting) cars.

If there is a build that could use a race IC - it’s yours. Curious to see you feedback when you get it installed.

[silvrbreez]

OP - Thanks for the thread and thorough review.

FWIW to other discussion the quality of VRSF...
When discussing full bolt-on upgrades with a local BMW specialty maintenance, repair, and performance, shop their opinion was "VRSF is by far the best value. No fitment issues and very good price point." These guys warranty their work for 24 months and are willing to do so with VRSF parts. They've even steered me away from some other more costly companies due to issues they've seen with fit and finish.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't always get what you pay for, and sometimes you get more than you paid for. Personal research is key.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by silvrbreez

FWIW to other discussion the quality of VRSF...

"VRSF is by far the best value. No fitment issues and very good price point." These guys warranty their work for 24 months and are willing to do so with VRSF parts. They've even steered me away from some other more costly companies due to issues they've seen with fit and finish.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't always get what you pay for, and sometimes you get more than you paid for. Personal research is key.

Can be true, depending on how you define value and if parts fit as advertised.

Originally Posted by silvrbreez

FWIW to other discussion the quality of VRSF...

"No fitment issues"

100% false if you look beyond a small subset of users who may have had good luck.

Originally Posted by silvrbreez

"very good price point."

Mostly true, although there are cheaper options now that have a pretty good reputation (i.e., FTP pipes)

Originally Posted by silvrbreez

These guys warranty their work for 24 months and are willing to do so with VRSF parts. They've even steered me away from some other more costly companies due to issues they've seen with fit and finish.

This shop sounds like a keeper, and a reason to go with a better 'value' brand since you dont assume the risk of fitment/quality issues. And also true that more expensive does not necessarily mean better quality/fitment.

Originally Posted by silvrbreez

I guess what I'm saying is you don't always get what you pay for, and sometimes you get more than you paid for. Personal research is key.

Definitely true, especially the research part.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

I knew I wanted to go to BM3 Stage 2, but I felt like the posts around here were unclear as to whether a new FMIC was really necessary or not...sure, everyone said it was optimal, but some guys mentioned variables like local climate (Texas desert vs Colorado mountains), street vs track use, etc leading you toward real-world necessity.

So I reached out to PTF and asked them directly. Here was their response: "The requirements for Stage 2 93 octane map are high-flow downpipes and front-mount intercooler (FMIC). These are absolutely essential, in order to keep the performance at optimal and not damage anything.

Intercooler cools the air compressed by the turbo/supercharger reducing the temperature and increasing the density of the air supplied to the engine.

Without an intercooler, the engine will fail to supply the required amount of air under the optimal pressure, thereby affecting the air-fuel ratio of the engine, potentially damaging your turbo."

Kinda hard to argue with an answer as direct as that! So then I reached out to @mike@x-ph.com and Tiago@VRSF for recommendations. They both strongly recommended the VRSF 6.5" Stepped Competition rather than the 5" Stepped Performance version b/c the 5" wouldn't be able to handle the increased flow of Stage 2 as well as the 6.5" could. He also assured me that it's not so big that it would increase turbo lag, so that's the one I went with.

Installation: Very straightforward. I removed the front bumper like most other ppl rather than try and do it with the bumper still on, and I'm glad I did. Honestly, that was the longest part of the job, but it was MUCH easier than it would've been with the front bumper on. Removing and reinstalling the tension clips on each side of the piping was mildly annoying, but it wasn't that big of a hassle. It just took a few extra minutes on each side than I expected.

Fit and Finish: Literally perfect. It'd be hard to imagine anything better.

Performance: Perfect. Zero increased turbo lag. Interestingly, even before flashing to Stage 2, my butt dyno suggested more throttle response and top end. But the logs told a much more quantitative and reassuring story. For sake of simplicity, I'll distill the logs down to just the IATs in pulls from 2k in 3rd through redline in 4th...

Ambient Temp - Hardware - Tune - IAT 2k in 3rd - IAT top of 3rd - IAT top of 4th - (IAT delta from bottom of 3rd to top of 4th)
72F - Stock - OEM - 90F - 112F - 117F (+27F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed4...729b6c7129048e

72F - Stock - Stage 1 - 86F - 129F - 140F (+54F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed3...90c66237c1d0f8

82F - VRSF 6.5" - OEM - 104F - 95F - 100F (-4F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eda...729b0f7178b9f1

82F - VRSF 6.5" - Stage 1 - 101F - 97F - 109F (+8F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eda...90c634ff221de4

79F - VRSF 6.5" - Stage 2 - 92F - 92F (0F) ...*there was too much traffic to get into fourth gear so a third gear pull was the best I could do*
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4f...90c61f061ddbc8

I'm no expert at reading datalogs, but to me, those results are extremely impressive. Generally-speaking, they tell me two things:
1) The OEM intercooler is actually underpowered for even an OEM tune, let alone Stage 1.
2) The VRSF 6.5" is just about perfect for a Stage 1 or Stage 2 application. In a third gear pull, the IATs actually drop in the OEM and Stage 1 tunes and remain rock steady in Stage 2.

Weight: It's not exactly lightweight. OEM IC is 8lbs, VRSF 6.5" is 27.4lbs, and hanging that extra weight at the very front of the car is obviously a suboptimal situation if you were extremely concerned about balance, but the performance results far outweigh (PUN INTENDED) this minor downside esp for a street application.

Value: I got a the VRSF catless DP and the FMIC as a combo deal from x-ph for $663.10 shipped. This really is an amazing value for something that looks, fits, and performs as well as this product does. Hell, you could easily pay that much for an FMIC by itself, let alone bundled with a DP!

Overall: I couldn't be happier with this FMIC. It looks great, fit great, installed easily, and most important of all, it performed even better than I expected. Zero turbo lag was added, it controls IATs from OEM all the way through Stage 2 maps amazingly well...and I got all that for an unbeatably low price. What's not to love?!

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences OP

[LYTSOUT]

@AmuroRay asked me to measure the fin density.

It's hard to get to, so this is the best pic I could get

Hope this helps!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

@AmuroRay asked me to measure the fin density.

It's hard to get to, so this is the best pic I could get

Hope this helps!

Absolutely awesome, thank you!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Absolutely awesome, thank you!

Looks like 18? is this the same as your race then?

[AmuroRay]

I know I’m not crazy

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1494948

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

We just wanted to post a quick thread updating everyone about our new fin pack revision on our 5" stepped street intercoolers. After extensive research and testing we've decided to upgrade both the internal and external fin packs on our standard cores in order to better suit the upgraded turbo solutions that have now become available.

Any street or intercooler that has been ordered in the past couple months will already have the denser fin pack which is now almost double the density of our older fin pack. The denser fin pack offers a higher overall surface area which significantly increases heat dissipation and keeps the intake temps nice and low.

Here's a comparison of the new fin pack:



http://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-7-front...2-e90-e92.html

We also have a new intercooler in the works which will bridge the gap in size between the existing street intercoolers and "generic" street sized intercoolers and our Race intercooler. By street sized I mean our street intercooler as well as the generic Wagner/AA/ BMS/CTS/eBay intercoolers which all are identical in terms of dimensions. This will feature the same HD fin pack as our Race HD intercooler which has proven to perform well on both the street and the track.

For those interested in maxing out their stock turbo or upgrading the turbo in the future, our Race intercooler is currently the largest intercooler available for this platform and also features the highest density fin pack available @ about 20 fins per inch, pictured below. It's not uncommon to see intake temps actually drop on 3-4 gear pulls with this intercooler. and this fin pack is the same that's featured on Motiv's record breaking 1000whp N54 shop car.



http://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-race-in...i-n20-n55.html

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I know I’m not crazy

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1494948

Yeah that does look like 19-20 fins/inch, and the IC face also looks unpainted. Maybe it is a earlier iteration that is slightly different than the one you got.

[el_couzin]

Thanks for the review. This thread convinced me, vrsf 6.5" ordered!!

can't wait to compare my logs from before/after.

I'm happy to read that the lag hasn't increased after the install even with stock tune and turbo.