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      09-17-2020, 10:38 PM   #3411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
I appreciate all of your help Jeremy! I think at this point I'm going to go with a more conservative tune with stock components and call it a day. I don't feel like dumping 3K into this car just so I can run 19.5 boost on this stock turbo. I'd rather wait and upgrade the turbo along with everything else. By that time I might just want to graduate to the B58 or S55 motor.
No problem. Stage 1 HPFPs might be on sale for around $1k on black friday... so with 1k you could put that tune to use, assuming you install yourself.
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      09-18-2020, 09:06 PM   #3412
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*Update* I had Cary send me the base map from the start of this custom tune process. 1st pull had stutter, second and third did not... Getting closer to figuring out this issue. I can see the hpfp psi drop in the 3900-4200rpm range but not enough to declare the pump as the issue. Is 100-200 psi under target for the hpfp acceptable? For some reason, it just seems like a clutch issue. Thoughts?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...90c648300303cc
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...90c648300303d1
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...0b433331e7f1bc
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      09-19-2020, 02:37 AM   #3413
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Originally Posted by Joeirl92 View Post
I can confirm this. BM3 Stage 2 E30 ate my clutch alive. Don't even bother unless you have the $$ for a clutch upgrade in mind. I learned the hard way.

Here's to hoping my SPEC 2+ goes well. Install is tomorrow. You best believe I'm going right back to E30 lol. I'll post logs of before (clutch slip) and after (after clutch break-in) if anyone's interested. It'll be a while until I hit that 500 mile mark though :/
Did you reuse DMFW? I'd like to see the before and after logs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
Eventually PTF should indicate that for stage 2 or higher n55 maps on cars with 6MT upgraded clutch is required. Clutch slip is inevitable on any stage 2 n55 6mt car, don't waste your time trying to chase this down and try to convince yourself it's the tune or bump in the road... your clutch is slipping.
Did you reuse your DMFW with your 550i clutch?
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      09-19-2020, 12:34 PM   #3414
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Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
*Update* I had Cary send me the base map from the start of this custom tune process. 1st pull had stutter, second and third did not... Getting closer to figuring out this issue. I can see the hpfp psi drop in the 3900-4200rpm range but not enough to declare the pump as the issue. Is 100-200 psi under target for the hpfp acceptable? For some reason, it just seems like a clutch issue. Thoughts?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...90c648300303cc
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...90c648300303d1
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f65...0b433331e7f1bc
Again, why are you rolling into the throttle and not just going WOT all at once?

In the first log, there's just some strage behavior from around 3800-4200 rpm. It does look like it can be clutch slip because the slope of the RPM line increases pretty sharply, and then you get a throttle closure which drops the rpm back down (throttle closes alloing clutch to grip again), all while still WOT. At the same time, you have a bit of a HPFP dip but not substantial. Looks like you let off shortly after.

The best way to test for clutch slip is to go WOT at relatively low RPM in a higher gear. So get a 3rd gear log and a 4th gear log, where you floor it (quickly, do not roll into it) at about 2500 rpm. You dont even need to rev it all the way out in 4th, just go to maybe 5000pm or so. The key thing is high boost/load at low rpm in higher gear.

100-200 psi is not a HPFP 'crash' persay but it means you are at the limit of the fuel system.
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      09-19-2020, 01:29 PM   #3415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
for those upgrading clutch, do you attempt to stick with stock flywheel dmfw? any pictures of the condition of the flywheel at time of new clutch install (and mileage).
I went with LUK DMFW. I still have the stock flywheel in my trunk. I'll take pics of it before/after my drive for the break-in! I drove it 20 miles from the shop last night and it felt great already! I have high hopes. Dont forget to remove the CDV or swap with this slave: PN: 21526785964. I went with the OEM BMW part. FTE is $60 I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codestar View Post
On the st2 e30 map with spec 2+ and cdv delete and it runs like a champ. Still wish that you could have sport throttle with dsc off though, even in sport plus you need to be careful with the throttle or else the wheelspin cuts engine power
I'm chasing that same thing brotha. Glad to hear the Spec 2+ is doing so well. By early next week I should be outside of clutch break in so that I can go WOT. a guy at the shop said .022 gapped plugs isnt enough. Says I should go .018

Instead of deleting the CDV in our stock slaves, I swapped it out with the E90 slave. Apparently they had external CDVs, so their slaves don't have them built in.

Cheers to getting passed this clutch crap we MT drivers deal with!
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      09-19-2020, 01:46 PM   #3416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeirl92 View Post
I went with LUK DMFW. I still have the stock flywheel in my trunk. I'll take pics of it before/after my drive for the break-in! I drove it 20 miles from the shop last night and it felt great already! I have high hopes. Dont forget to remove the CDV or swap with this slave: PN: 21526785964. I went with the OEM BMW part. FTE is $60 I believe.



I'm chasing that same thing brotha. Glad to hear the Spec 2+ is doing so well. By early next week I should be outside of clutch break in so that I can go WOT. a guy at the shop said .022 gapped plugs isnt enough. Says I should go .018

Instead of deleting the CDV in our stock slaves, I swapped it out with the E90 slave. Apparently they had external CDVs, so their slaves don't have them built in.

Cheers to getting passed this clutch crap we MT drivers deal with!
Wait what? 0.018 plugs for what setup? Stock plugs, stock gap (0.030) unless you have issues... then try colder/smaller. We aren't running 30 psi lol, shouldnt need 0.018...
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      09-19-2020, 08:23 PM   #3417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeirl92 View Post
I can confirm this. BM3 Stage 2 E30 ate my clutch alive. Don't even bother unless you have the $$ for a clutch upgrade in mind. I learned the hard way.

Here's to hoping my SPEC 2+ goes well. Install is tomorrow. You best believe I'm going right back to E30 lol. I'll post logs of before (clutch slip) and after (after clutch break-in) if anyone's interested. It'll be a while until I hit that 500 mile mark though :/
Did you reuse DMFW? I'd like to see the before and after logs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
Eventually PTF should indicate that for stage 2 or higher n55 maps on cars with 6MT upgraded clutch is required. Clutch slip is inevitable on any stage 2 n55 6mt car, don't waste your time trying to chase this down and try to convince yourself it's the tune or bump in the road... your clutch is slipping.
Did you reuse your DMFW with your 550i clutch?
Yes, it was fine looked like new. My car had around 70,000km on it when I replaced the clutch
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      09-20-2020, 11:52 PM   #3418
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What do you guys think 335is/550i or Spec 2+ clutch for an E-30 custom tune?
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      09-21-2020, 08:03 AM   #3419
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Interesting ..

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f67...90c6479ba8739a (check around time .036)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f67...0b4333bb1a495a
(check around time .028)

It's interesting because it looks like the HPFP is crashing at first, but then i noticed that my AFR goes super rich. Possible my meth spraying too hard? (stft is + so leads me to believe something else might be afoot)

FBO N55 w/ progressive AEM meth (1000cc nozz, set point 5psi-15psi)
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      09-21-2020, 10:01 AM   #3420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
What do you guys think 335is/550i or Spec 2+ clutch for an E-30 custom tune?
They both should be able to hand the HP. I can't speak for the 335is but my spec runs great with the OTS e30 map. I don't think there's an earth-shattering difference between custom vs. OTS. Anything much above the OTS tunes it looks like the HPFP is the biggest bottleneck
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      09-21-2020, 12:17 PM   #3421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Wait what? 0.018 plugs for what setup? Stock plugs, stock gap (0.030) unless you have issues... then try colder/smaller. We aren't running 30 psi lol, shouldnt need 0.018...
Thanks for chiming in. I already gapped my NGK's to .023 which is what PTF recommended on their website for the N55. My end goal is the OTS E30 BM3 map. They work primarily on M cars. The guy didn't work on my car so he probably just gave me information based off other builds.

I couldn't help myself and went WOT this morning (probably a bad idea as I'm still in clutch break in) and there was absolutely no slippage. If it ain't broke, don't fix it I guess. I'll keep my gap at .023. And when my tank is empty I'll be filling up with some E85 and cross my fingers the E30 map is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
What do you guys think 335is/550i or Spec 2+ clutch for an E-30 custom tune?
I went with Spec 2+ with DMFW in case I ever wanna go Pure Stage 2 turbo! for now I'll be running the OTS E30 map. Imo you can't go wrong with Spec
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      09-21-2020, 12:25 PM   #3422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codestar View Post
They both should be able to hand the HP. I can't speak for the 335is but my spec runs great with the OTS e30 map. I don't think there's an earth-shattering difference between custom vs. OTS. Anything much above the OTS tunes it looks like the HPFP is the biggest bottleneck
Yeah, there probably isn't a huge difference between OTS & custom, but I already purchased a custom tune, so I'm going to push the stock hpfp as far as we can. Where did you order your spec clutch from?



I went with Spec 2+ with DMFW in case I ever wanna go Pure Stage 2 turbo! for now I'll be running the OTS E30 map. Imo you can't go wrong with Spec[/QUOTE]

That's what I was thinking too. Seems like a good plan. Where did you purchase your clutch and DMFW?
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      09-21-2020, 01:17 PM   #3423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
Yeah, there probably isn't a huge difference between OTS & custom, but I already purchased a custom tune, so I'm going to push the stock hpfp as far as we can. Where did you order your spec clutch from?



I went with Spec 2+ with DMFW in case I ever wanna go Pure Stage 2 turbo! for now I'll be running the OTS E30 map. Imo you can't go wrong with Spec
That's what I was thinking too. Seems like a good plan. Where did you purchase your clutch and DMFW?[/QUOTE]

LUK DMFW Part Number 21207640733 (FCP Euro)
Spec Stage 2 +: SB553H (make sure it's not SB553H-2, as that's for SMFW)

specclutch.com for the clutch!
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      09-21-2020, 01:51 PM   #3424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeirl92 View Post
That's what I was thinking too. Seems like a good plan. Where did you purchase your clutch and DMFW?
LUK DMFW Part Number 21207640733 (FCP Euro)
Spec Stage 2 +: SB553H (make sure it's not SB553H-2, as that's for SMFW)

specclutch.com for the clutch![/QUOTE]
Awesome, thanks for your help. I called BMW for a quote on a DMFW and they said $1,585 lol. FCP Euro is a great deal.
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      09-21-2020, 02:26 PM   #3425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Its very possible you have both issues if you are trying to get a custom E30 tune on stock HPFP... which doesn't really make sense in the first place since theres basically no gains to be had when the E30 OTS map is at the limit of the HPFP.
So I asked Halim about E30 being at limit as I was concerned about my mixture accuracy and this was the response "In terms of ethanol %. E28 or E32 doesn’t really matter much as we haven’t pushed the E30 OTS to its max where 2-3% alcohol is the dealbreaker". He also said the throttle closure due to minor boost spike is normal and my wastgate actuator might be too tight. Switching to stock intake didn't change anything, probably better IATs. Here are a couple of my E30 logs, everything looks good, throttle oscillation still present but I'm concerned about STFT being at around 0.9 towards the top. I've seen a few E30 bm3 logs with similar STFTs, maybe it's normal? Boost pressure target also keeps changing initially but constant towards the top, was same for stage 1 also.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f66...729b1f7d892e97

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f66...0b4333bb1a47b9
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      09-21-2020, 03:02 PM   #3426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_F32 View Post
LUK DMFW Part Number 21207640733 (FCP Euro)
Spec Stage 2 +: SB553H (make sure it's not SB553H-2, as that's for SMFW)

specclutch.com for the clutch!
Awesome, thanks for your help. I called BMW for a quote on a DMFW and they said $1,585 lol. FCP Euro is a great deal.[/QUOTE]

No Problem! I'm just using the same information I was provided by the community and passing it on.

1600 from the stealership. Not even surprised lmao. FCP is definitely the way to go! Plus their lifetime warranty!
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      09-21-2020, 11:42 PM   #3427
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Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke View Post
So I asked Halim about E30 being at limit as I was concerned about my mixture accuracy and this was the response "In terms of ethanol %. E28 or E32 doesnít really matter much as we havenít pushed the E30 OTS to its max where 2-3% alcohol is the dealbreaker". He also said the throttle closure due to minor boost spike is normal and my wastgate actuator might be too tight. Switching to stock intake didn't change anything, probably better IATs. Here are a couple of my E30 logs, everything looks good, throttle oscillation still present but I'm concerned about STFT being at around 0.9 towards the top. I've seen a few E30 bm3 logs with similar STFTs, maybe it's normal? Boost pressure target also keeps changing initially but constant towards the top, was same for stage 1 also.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f66...729b1f7d892e97

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f66...0b4333bb1a47b9
I wouldnt worry about +/- 10% fuel corrections, especially when its on the negative side, as that just means the tune is slightly rich from target AFR. My STFTs are almost always negative with MHD, even more so on pump gas map. On E20 map with E30 in the tank, they are less negative (since i am running more ethanol than tune expects), but i still get up to -5% every time.

As far as the BM3 E30 map being near the limit... i would say all the data suggests otherwise, especially when v7.1 first came out. Everyone was getting HPFP crashes left and right during the winter, especially with IATs < 50F. Its the nature of a load based tune with a flat boost target that doesn't adjust to atmospheric conditions. A very low DA is going to require a lot more fuel, and if your ethanol mix is overshot a little at the same time, your HPFP will crash.

Your logs look fine, although they do suggest you are at HPFP limit as you are getting dips everytime, albeit only a few hundred psi, and that's with IATs in the 80s.
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      09-21-2020, 11:48 PM   #3428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paimon.soror View Post
Interesting ..

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f67...90c6479ba8739a (check around time .036)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f67...0b4333bb1a495a
(check around time .028)

It's interesting because it looks like the HPFP is crashing at first, but then i noticed that my AFR goes super rich. Possible my meth spraying too hard? (stft is + so leads me to believe something else might be afoot)

FBO N55 w/ progressive AEM meth (1000cc nozz, set point 5psi-15psi)
Where do you see positive STFTs? You are highly negative, pulling almost 25% fuel most of the time because of the meth. It is indeed strange the HPFP dips where it does because boost is already decreasing. What meth/water ratio are you running? 50/50?

You can tell the car is struggling to get the fueling in check because of the meth. Is this a normal 93 OTS map?
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      09-22-2020, 07:17 AM   #3429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Where do you see positive STFTs? You are highly negative, pulling almost 25% fuel most of the time because of the meth. It is indeed strange the HPFP dips where it does because boost is already decreasing. What meth/water ratio are you running? 50/50?

You can tell the car is struggling to get the fueling in check because of the meth. Is this a normal 93 OTS map?
Darn you are correct on the trims ... im not used to seeing 1 as the absolute ( used to a -.25 - .25 range) so i interpreted it as positive.

Yep, 50/50 blend, 93 OTS
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      09-22-2020, 11:04 AM   #3430
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Originally Posted by paimon.soror View Post
Darn you are correct on the trims ... im not used to seeing 1 as the absolute ( used to a -.25 - .25 range) so i interpreted it as positive.

Yep, 50/50 blend, 93 OTS
I am pretty sure 25% is the max STFT in either direction so you are basically maxing out the corrections... I would spray less unless for some reason you feel you need that. Especially true for a OTS map.

Last edited by thejeremyman9; 09-22-2020 at 12:41 PM..
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      09-22-2020, 11:37 AM   #3431
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Yea its funny, i used to have the 500cc and i was still having timing corrections with our poop 93 octane. So i had to go to the next size which is the 1000cc. Maybe i need to drop down the mixture w/ some more water?
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      09-22-2020, 12:42 PM   #3432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paimon.soror View Post
Yea its funny, i used to have the 500cc and i was still having timing corrections with our poop 93 octane. So i had to go to the next size which is the 1000cc. Maybe i need to drop down the mixture w/ some more water?
Can you dial back the injector duty cycle rather than going smaller injector? I am not sure the pros/cons of going to a higher water mix as i don't run meth, so i would do some more research on that.
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