[qallen]

need help on deciding whether to install a M performance LSD or not. I have a 2017 340i.
How much can you feel it in every day driving if you install it? very likely I am not gonna race.
Also the local dealer asks for around $1000 for installation labor.
Thanks for any advice!

[Logicoeur]

You will feel it immediately. Every single turn, every single high way ramp. The RWD bias is then a lot more apparent by the push sensation.

[jv004]

You wont notice it right away, but you'll see a difference in the stability when coming out of a turn rather quickly. Also acceleration will have less spin. In my daily regular drives there was no difference, but you'll notice it on some spirited driving or on the track.

[AllaVodka]

I had this exact debate as well. In fact, I ordered the LSD but they sent me a manual one (I have auto).. and I sent it back. I then researched a little more, and had a few posts... and came to the conclusion that unless your losing grip in the rear around curves, its likely not going to be felt often. I've decided not to get the LSD for that reason. I dont track and never drive the car hard enough to lose grip on my rear tires

[i128]

It's such a shame that there is no « free return » policy on parts like this… or at least a try before you buy demo car …

It's such an expensive mod, for little to no results, OR DAY/night handling outcome… as two people have stated opposite results above…

[aardate]

Yeah I've been having the same dilemma as well. I have a 2018 340i, the dealer quoted me $3,500 out the door price which I just couldn't stomach. I think it's one of those things that are nice to have and brag about but unless your really pushing the car I don't think it's worth it.

I will probably get it installed at some point in the future just to justify keeping the car and making it a bit more special.

[SuperLomi]

Originally Posted by i128

It's such a shame that there is no « free return » policy on parts like this… or at least a try before you buy demo car …

It's such an expensive mod, for little to no results, OR DAY/night handling outcome… as two people have stated opposite results above…

I think a good rule of thumb for approaching mods like this is: don’t do it because of hype, or someone says “this is the upgrade path of this car”, etc. Do
It because you notice something missing/you don’t like about the car.

If you’re not driving the car hard enough to feel like it needs an LSD, then you probably don’t, and you probably wont feel much of a difference.

If you are noticing symptoms of lacking an LSD, then you’ll probably notice the difference. Don’t waste money on a solution that’s looking for a problem.

If you can’t articulate “I want an LSD because X, Y, and Z” then you probably don’t NEED one. That’s not to say you can’t decide to spend the money anyway, nor be happy if you do. But if you’re on the fence and the expense is in question this is a better way to approach it, IMO.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

I think a good rule of thumb for approaching mods like this is: don’t do it because of hype, or someone says “this is the upgrade path of this car”, etc. Do
It because you notice something missing/you don’t like about the car.

If you’re not driving the car hard enough to feel like it needs an LSD, then you probably don’t, and you probably wont feel much of a difference.

If you are noticing symptoms of lacking an LSD, then you’ll probably notice the difference. Don’t waste money on a solution that’s looking for a problem.

If you can’t articulate “I want an LSD because X, Y, and Z” then you probably don’t NEED one. That’s not to say you can’t decide to spend the money anyway, nor be happy if you do. But if you’re on the fence and the expense is in question this is a better way to approach it, IMO.

Well said. An LSD is an absolute must have for track or autocross, but on the street, there will be very few situations in which it's really noticeable or needed.

[INROADRACR]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

I think a good rule of thumb for approaching mods like this is: don’t do it because of hype, or someone says “this is the upgrade path of this car”, etc. Do
It because you notice something missing/you don’t like about the car.

If you’re not driving the car hard enough to feel like it needs an LSD, then you probably don’t, and you probably wont feel much of a difference.

If you are noticing symptoms of lacking an LSD, then you’ll probably notice the difference. Don’t waste money on a solution that’s looking for a problem.

If you can’t articulate “I want an LSD because X, Y, and Z” then you probably don’t NEED one. That’s not to say you can’t decide to spend the money anyway, nor be happy if you do. But if you’re on the fence and the expense is in question this is a better way to approach it, IMO.

I don't disagree with this at all. I paid for the LSD upgrade ($3,400 installed) and it is not noticeable in moderate, every day driving. I don't track the car, but I do enjoy wet road conditions where I'm away from other drivers and can do some drifting. Plus, I really enjoy winter driving with 'rear wheel steering'

Definitely not a 'must have', but certainly a fun option that could also prove beneficial when encountering sloppy road conditions.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

I think a good rule of thumb for approaching mods like this is: don’t do it because of hype, or someone says “this is the upgrade path of this car”, etc. Do
It because you notice something missing/you don’t like about the car.

If you’re not driving the car hard enough to feel like it needs an LSD, then you probably don’t, and you probably wont feel much of a difference.

If you are noticing symptoms of lacking an LSD, then you’ll probably notice the difference. Don’t waste money on a solution that’s looking for a problem.

If you can’t articulate “I want an LSD because X, Y, and Z” then you probably don’t NEED one. That’s not to say you can’t decide to spend the money anyway, nor be happy if you do. But if you’re on the fence and the expense is in question this is a better way to approach it, IMO.

Your argument appears to make sense, but it would not have helped me to decide when I was in that situation. I never had a car with an LSD. I had no frame of reference. So I depended on the opinion of a friend who was knowledgeable. I'm glad that I did.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by qallen

need help on deciding whether to install a M performance LSD or not. I have a 2017 340i.
How much can you feel it in every day driving if you install it? very likely I am not gonna race.
Also the local dealer asks for around $1000 for installation labor.
Thanks for any advice!

Find another local dealer or an experienced local BMW shop. $1,000 installation is a rip off. The book rate is 3.5 hours which in the Philadelphia area is about $560.

Get a mechanic who has experience replacing rear differentials in F3x cars. Mechanics often claim they can do something to get the work or because they assume it's the same procedure that they have done on a different model.

I know guys who bought expensive MP LSDs only to have dealer or independent mechanics bugger them up during the installation.

The E-Series uses bolt-on flanges for the rear driveshafts which most mechanics are used to. But BMW changed with the F-Series to rear driveshafts that are held on by a small circlip. Special expensive tools are needed to do the F-Series differential replacement.

But when mechanics discover that the driveshafts aren't bolt-on and that they don't have the correct tools, many are likely to do what they often do, grab what they have like pry bars and start wedging things in there. That's how things have gotten broken.

A second special tool is needed that looks like a giant open wrench with a 3 foot handle to achieve the necessary torque. This is to remove the center driveshaft from the rear differential.
See attached photos for tools.

Find an experienced mechanic to do it who won't charge more than $600 for labor. Make sure you actually speak to the mechanic to make sure he is experienced with F-Series differentials. Ask to actually see the special tools to make sure you are hearing the truth.

MP LSD is awesome. Remember it is mechanical so it automatically engages with any rear wheel slippage. It disengages if slippage gets over about 19% and the electronic system then kicks in when slippage at the rear wheel gets over 30%.

So without the MP LSD the car is driving around experiencing rear wheel slippage up to 30% before the stock car takes any action. And that action is to brake one of the rear wheels and to possibly cut throttle to maintain control of the car.

The MP LSD feels incredible because it automatically sends the smallest amount of rear wheel slippage/spin and sends more power to the opposite rear wheel that currently has traction. The MP LSD feels awesome entering and exiting turns. If one side hits gravel or something, the LSD powers right throw it. Pretty amazing! I'm spoiled now and will add an LSD to any future car that I buy.

Hope this helps!

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by INROADRACR

I don't disagree with this at all. I paid for the LSD upgrade ($3,400 installed) and it is not noticeable in moderate, every day driving. I don't track the car, but I do enjoy wet road conditions where I'm away from other drivers and can do some drifting. Plus, I really enjoy winter driving with 'rear wheel steering'

Definitely not a 'must have', but certainly a fun option that could also prove beneficial when encountering sloppy road conditions.

It's not meant to be noticed in moderate driving. You don't even notice that the OE diff is open at most times. What seems to be the underlying perception here is that at $3000 you likely expected night and day for such a steep expense.

I can guarantee that if you got it for $5-700 during the fire sale you would be singing an entirely different tune. At that pricing it's around ~$1200 out the door which was my cost. With the addition of xDelete and dedicated summers the car is completely different, even in moderate every day driving. You would and should have noticed that the car flashes DSC a lot more in comfort once the lsd is installed, especially with winters or run flats.

[khanmohammed]

Originally Posted by qallen

need help on deciding whether to install a M performance LSD or not. I have a 2017 340i.
How much can you feel it in every day driving if you install it? very likely I am not gonna race.
Also the local dealer asks for around $1000 for installation labor.
Thanks for any advice!

Would people with xDrive even need this

[qallen]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

I had this exact debate as well. In fact, I ordered the LSD but they sent me a manual one (i have auto).. and I sent it back. I then researched a little more, and had a few posts... and came to the conclusion that unless your losing grip in the rear around curves, its likely not going to be felt often. I've decided not to get the LSD for that reason. I dont track and never drive the car hard enough to lose grip on my rear tires

Thanks!

I feel i am like you

[qallen]

Originally Posted by i128

It's such a shame that there is no « free return » policy on parts like this… or at least a try before you buy demo car …

It's such an expensive mod, for little to no results, OR DAY/night handling outcome… as two people have stated opposite results above…

Thanks!

Actually i went to one dealer one day and they kind of said "don't install it. it is a waste of your money".

[qallen]

Originally Posted by aardate

Yeah I've been having the same dilemma as well. I have a 2018 340i, the dealer quoted me $3,500 out the door price which I just couldn't stomach. I think it's one of those things that are nice to have and brag about but unless your really pushing the car I don't think it's worth it.

I will probably get it installed at some point in the future just to justify keeping the car and making it a bit more special.

I feel you!

Even though now I realize probably I actually do not need it. I still wanna own it and try it

[qallen]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

I think a good rule of thumb for approaching mods like this is: don’t do it because of hype, or someone says “this is the upgrade path of this car”, etc. Do
It because you notice something missing/you don’t like about the car.

If you’re not driving the car hard enough to feel like it needs an LSD, then you probably don’t, and you probably wont feel much of a difference.

If you are noticing symptoms of lacking an LSD, then you’ll probably notice the difference. Don’t waste money on a solution that’s looking for a problem.

If you can’t articulate “I want an LSD because X, Y, and Z” then you probably don’t NEED one. That’s not to say you can’t decide to spend the money anyway, nor be happy if you do. But if you’re on the fence and the expense is in question this is a better way to approach it, IMO.

Thanks! good point!

[qallen]

Originally Posted by johnung

Find another local dealer or an experienced local BMW shop. $1,000 installation is a rip off. The book rate is 3.5 hours which in the Philadelphia area is about $560.

Get a mechanic who has experience replacing rear differentials in F3x cars. Mechanics often claim they can do something to get the work or because they assume it's the same procedure that they have done on a different model.

I know guys who bought expensive MP LSDs only to have dealer or independent mechanics bugger them up during the installation.

The E-Series uses bolt-on flanges for the rear driveshafts which most mechanics are used to. But BMW changed with the F-Series to rear driveshafts that are held on by a small circlip. Special expensive tools are needed to do the F-Series differential replacement.

But when mechanics discover that the driveshafts aren't bolt-on and that they don't have the correct tools, many are likely to do what they often do, grab what they have like pry bars and start wedging things in there. That's how things have gotten broken.

A second special tool is needed that looks like a giant open wrench with a 3 foot handle to achieve the necessary torque. This is to remove the center driveshaft from the rear differential.
See attached photos for tools.

Find an experienced mechanic to do it who won't charge more than $600 for labor. Make sure you actually speak to the mechanic to make sure he is experienced with F-Series differentials. Ask to actually see the special tools to make sure you are hearing the truth.

MP LSD is awesome. Remember it is mechanical so it automatically engages with any rear wheel slippage. It disengages if slippage gets over about 19% and the electronic system then kicks in when slippage at the rear wheel gets over 30%.

So without the MP LSD the car is driving around experiencing rear wheel slippage up to 30% before the stock car takes any action. And that action is to brake one of the rear wheels and to possibly cut throttle to maintain control of the car.

The MP LSD feels incredible because it automatically sends the smallest amount of rear wheel slippage/spin and sends more power to the opposite rear wheel that currently has traction. The MP LSD feels awesome entering and exiting turns. If one side hits gravel or something, the LSD powers right throw it. Pretty amazing! I'm spoiled now and will add an LSD to any future car that I buy.

Hope this helps!

That is comprehensive!

Thanks a lot!!!

[qallen]

Originally Posted by johnung

Your argument appears to make sense, but it would not have helped me to decide when I was in that situation. I never had a car with an LSD. I had no frame of reference. So I depended on the opinion of a friend who was knowledgeable. I'm glad that I did.

yeah. I have never had a car with an LSD---i guess that is why although it is expensive I have not simply walked away yet.

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Well said. An LSD is an absolute must have for track or autocross, but on the street, there will be very few situations in which it's really noticeable or needed.

Tokyo drift yo!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by qallen

That is comprehensive!

Thanks a lot!!!

Myself and a few friends went through a lot to get and install the MP LSD on our cars. Some of us went through the pitfalls to do so. Just hoping to pass on some of that experience to help someone else. It was worth it! Definitely would get an LSD again in a heartbeat!

[smrtypants44]

The only time I noticed it in everyday driving was in the snow. It takes a bit of spirited-ness to feel it, but once you do its a big difference. Definitely helps you use power to rotate the car.