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      02-07-2021, 03:15 PM   #1
m4thijss
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f32 n55 Crank Hub help

I've had my f32 for a few weeks now and I've been learning more about the car and something I am still confused about is how big of an issue the crank hub is. I know on the n55 engines as well as other engines like the S55 the crank hub spinning can destroy the engine.

Currently, the car has around 24k miles and is bone stock for now. I drive on the spirited side but I don't plan on making crazy power with this car. I do plan on eventually putting an exhaust and a tune on the car and taking it to the track. I also am unsure if I need an intake and charge pipes I've been told I should upgrade both but not sure how necessary both of those upgrades are. I've heard a mix of these things will fail on a stock car randomly or under load or after you start pushing boost, does anyone have a straight answer?

In terms of a fix I have been looking at the crank seal from Kiesmotorsports, does anyone have one? If so could you tell me how the install went and your experience?
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      02-07-2021, 03:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
I've had my f32 for a few weeks now and I've been learning more about the car and something I am still confused about is how big of an issue the crank hub is. I know on the n55 engines as well as other engines like the S55 the crank hub spinning can destroy the engine.

Currently, the car has around 24k miles and is bone stock for now. I drive on the spirited side but I don't plan on making crazy power with this car. I do plan on eventually putting an exhaust and a tune on the car and taking it to the track. I also am unsure if I need an intake and charge pipes I've been told I should upgrade both but not sure how necessary both of those upgrades are. I've heard a mix of these things will fail on a stock car randomly or under load or after you start pushing boost, does anyone have a straight answer?

In terms of a fix I have been looking at the crank seal from Kiesmotorsports, does anyone have one? If so could you tell me how the install went and your experience?
The issue with the crank hub is very rare for anyone not pushing serious power and many even pushing power have not done it. As for other stuff definitely need the charge pipe ASAP stock can completely blow anytime. And then at that point it's all about what you really care about doing if you have goals in mind will help.
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      02-07-2021, 04:01 PM   #3
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Kies has a YouTube video of them installing it on a N55:


I think you really only have an issue if the belt tensioner is starting to fail, and your belt walks off.
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      02-07-2021, 07:02 PM   #4
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SCH is a way overblown topic, don't worry so much about it and don't get fear mongered into worrying about it. If you want to do big power, then sure you should upgrade the hub but that's a unique scenario. Even then, many are 100% fine with just a CBC ($100 part with free DIY labor). CH has been a feature of BMW engines for the last 20 years.

VTT sells a very similar "seal guard" for $69. FWIW, if you check your belts during oil changes and change your belts at the recommended intervals, you'll be fine.
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      02-07-2021, 09:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
I've had my f32 for a few weeks now and I've been learning more about the car and something I am still confused about is how big of an issue the crank hub is. I know on the n55 engines as well as other engines like the S55 the crank hub spinning can destroy the engine.

Currently, the car has around 24k miles and is bone stock for now. I drive on the spirited side but I don't plan on making crazy power with this car. I do plan on eventually putting an exhaust and a tune on the car and taking it to the track. I also am unsure if I need an intake and charge pipes I've been told I should upgrade both but not sure how necessary both of those upgrades are. I've heard a mix of these things will fail on a stock car randomly or under load or after you start pushing boost, does anyone have a straight answer?

In terms of a fix I have been looking at the crank seal from Kiesmotorsports, does anyone have one? If so could you tell me how the install went and your experience?
All good questions. It's tough to try to research and to separate the truth from the misinformation. To answer your questions:

No real need to be concerned about the crank hub on a 435i. Technically it's possible to spin it but extremely unlikely. It happens on the S55 because of the higher power but also because of the transmissions used on those cars. Bottom line is to mod away your 435i and don't worry about it.

You absolutely need an upgraded aluminum charge pipe because the F3x N55 has a poorly desired chargepipe with a 90 degree bend where it likes to break, especially when even a mild tune is installed. They are many overseas CPs with poor control. Poor fitment leaks are expensive to troubleshoot and repair.

Here's an excellent high quality, excellent fitting choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

You do not need an intake for performance. A drop in free flow airfilter from aFe or K&N will give a performance bump. But if you want an intake with both a performance bump and a great whoosh sound, this is a great choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've heard many exhausts and the best by far is the AWE axle back. You don't need the midpipe unless you want it very loud.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

Watch the Kies Motorsports YouTube channel for tons of ideas. Here's just one of their AWE videos.



BootMod3 is a smooth powerful factory like tune. Free updates, excellent tech support and an enthusiastic helpful user community. Free transmission tune too.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

If you are going to track occasionally you definitely want an intercooler upgrade. It's best to do CP and intercooler at the same time because labor costs overlap. I researched intercoolers extensively and this is the German made model that I chose. Great quality, performance and fitment. (There are a lot of cheap junk intercoolers to avoid.)

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've got the Kies Motorsports Crank Seal Guard and the installation was exactly as it looked on the Kies video. I had been researching the belt issue for months and even bought one from eBay that I didn't install. It was absolute junk compared to the Kies product, which looks like BMW could have made it. Very precise fit.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22



Hope this helps!
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      02-08-2021, 08:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
I've had my f32 for a few weeks now and I've been learning more about the car and something I am still confused about is how big of an issue the crank hub is. I know on the n55 engines as well as other engines like the S55 the crank hub spinning can destroy the engine.

Currently, the car has around 24k miles and is bone stock for now. I drive on the spirited side but I don't plan on making crazy power with this car. I do plan on eventually putting an exhaust and a tune on the car and taking it to the track. I also am unsure if I need an intake and charge pipes I've been told I should upgrade both but not sure how necessary both of those upgrades are. I've heard a mix of these things will fail on a stock car randomly or under load or after you start pushing boost, does anyone have a straight answer?

In terms of a fix I have been looking at the crank seal from Kiesmotorsports, does anyone have one? If so could you tell me how the install went and your experience?
All good questions. It's tough to try to research and to separate the truth from the misinformation. To answer your questions:

No real need to be concerned about the crank hub on a 435i. Technically it's possible to spin it but extremely unlikely. It happens on the S55 because of the higher power but also because of the transmissions used on those cars. Bottom line is to mod away your 435i and don't worry about it.

You absolutely need an upgraded aluminum charge pipe because the F3x N55 has a poorly desired chargepipe with a 90 degree bend where it likes to break, especially when even a mild tune is installed. They are many overseas CPs with poor control. Poor fitment leaks are expensive to troubleshoot and repair.

Here's an excellent high quality, excellent fitting choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

You do not need an intake for performance. A drop in free flow airfilter from aFe or K&N will give a performance bump. But if you want an intake with both a performance bump and a great whoosh sound, this is a great choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've heard many exhausts and the best by far is the AWE axle back. You don't need the midpipe unless you want it very loud.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

Watch the Kies Motorsports YouTube channel for tons of ideas. Here's just one of their AWE videos.



BootMod3 is a smooth powerful factory like tune. Free updates, excellent tech support and an enthusiastic helpful user community. Free transmission tune too.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

If you are going to track occasionally you definitely want an intercooler upgrade. It's best to do CP and intercooler at the same time because labor costs overlap. I researched intercoolers extensively and this is the German made model that I chose. Great quality, performance and fitment. (There are a lot of cheap junk intercoolers to avoid.)

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've got the Kies Motorsports Crank Seal Guard and the installation was exactly as it looked on the Kies video. I had been researching the belt issue for months and even bought one from eBay that I didn't install. It was absolute junk compared to the Kies product, which looks like BMW could have made it. Very precise fit.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22



Hope this helps!
Should I do the crank hub seal from Kies?
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      02-08-2021, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Kies has a YouTube video of them installing it on a N55:


I think you really only have an issue if the belt tensioner is starting to fail, and your belt walks off.
I need to look at my belts but my car only has about 24k miles I doubt my belt is that worn.
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      02-08-2021, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
I've had my f32 for a few weeks now and I've been learning more about the car and something I am still confused about is how big of an issue the crank hub is. I know on the n55 engines as well as other engines like the S55 the crank hub spinning can destroy the engine.

Currently, the car has around 24k miles and is bone stock for now. I drive on the spirited side but I don't plan on making crazy power with this car. I do plan on eventually putting an exhaust and a tune on the car and taking it to the track. I also am unsure if I need an intake and charge pipes I've been told I should upgrade both but not sure how necessary both of those upgrades are. I've heard a mix of these things will fail on a stock car randomly or under load or after you start pushing boost, does anyone have a straight answer?

In terms of a fix I have been looking at the crank seal from Kiesmotorsports, does anyone have one? If so could you tell me how the install went and your experience?
All good questions. It's tough to try to research and to separate the truth from the misinformation. To answer your questions:

No real need to be concerned about the crank hub on a 435i. Technically it's possible to spin it but extremely unlikely. It happens on the S55 because of the higher power but also because of the transmissions used on those cars. Bottom line is to mod away your 435i and don't worry about it.

You absolutely need an upgraded aluminum charge pipe because the F3x N55 has a poorly desired chargepipe with a 90 degree bend where it likes to break, especially when even a mild tune is installed. They are many overseas CPs with poor control. Poor fitment leaks are expensive to troubleshoot and repair.

Here's an excellent high quality, excellent fitting choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

You do not need an intake for performance. A drop in free flow airfilter from aFe or K&N will give a performance bump. But if you want an intake with both a performance bump and a great whoosh sound, this is a great choice:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've heard many exhausts and the best by far is the AWE axle back. You don't need the midpipe unless you want it very loud.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

Watch the Kies Motorsports YouTube channel for tons of ideas. Here's just one of their AWE videos.



BootMod3 is a smooth powerful factory like tune. Free updates, excellent tech support and an enthusiastic helpful user community. Free transmission tune too.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

If you are going to track occasionally you definitely want an intercooler upgrade. It's best to do CP and intercooler at the same time because labor costs overlap. I researched intercoolers extensively and this is the German made model that I chose. Great quality, performance and fitment. (There are a lot of cheap junk intercoolers to avoid.)

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

I've got the Kies Motorsports Crank Seal Guard and the installation was exactly as it looked on the Kies video. I had been researching the belt issue for months and even bought one from eBay that I didn't install. It was absolute junk compared to the Kies product, which looks like BMW could have made it. Very precise fit.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22



Hope this helps!
Should I do the crank hub seal from Kies?
Yes, definitely! The Kies Seal Guard is the best by far. You can't go wrong with it. It's low cost life insurance for your expensive BMW engine.
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      02-08-2021, 08:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4thijss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Kies has a YouTube video of them installing it on a N55:


I think you really only have an issue if the belt tensioner is starting to fail, and your belt walks off.
I need to look at my belts but my car only has about 24k miles I doubt my belt is that worn.
At 24k miles your serpentine belt shouldn't look worn. Mine didn't look worn when I replaced it at 40k miles when I did the Kies Seal Guard.

But it's not just wear that will cause a belt to slip. Any sort of oil or coolant or other fluid leak that hits the belt can make it slip off, starting the dominos that can end in a destroyed engine. Some guys will puff out their chests and claim that it will never happen to them because they are so great with their maintenance.

That attitude makes no sense to me. In the past I used to jump all over things if I saw one drop of anything on my garage floor, which was epoxy coated and I could eat off of it.

But today a drop on the garage floor is too late. These engines have bottom covers and top covers and are too jammed under the hood to possibly spot every leak as it happens. Plus there are known issues like the coolant return hose and the Mickey Mouse hose that can suddenly fail and spray coolant all over your engine.

Bottom line is that this can happen to any of the affected cars at any time. I feel relieved to have a Kies Seal Guard installed on my expensive BMW engine. It's very cheap insurance.
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      02-09-2021, 12:53 AM   #10
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Here OP: https://vargasturbo.com/product/vtt-...nk-seal-guard/

They even do a package deal for a CBC if you're for some reason worried about SCH - together it's still less than the Kies seal
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      02-09-2021, 10:05 AM   #11
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i have a 2014 335i n55, pureturbo, meth etc, dyno 470hp 530tq and I did spin my hub, got drivetrain malfunction popping up and codes were angles of camshaft .....
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      02-09-2021, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pongkin View Post
i have a 2014 335i n55, pureturbo, meth etc, dyno 470hp 530tq and I did spin my hub, got drivetrain malfunction popping up and codes were angles of camshaft .....
Means built engine timeee🙌🏾
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      02-09-2021, 10:40 AM   #13
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i was still able to drive fine to the shop, i just replaced the crank hub
lucky it was just that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSF3014 View Post
Means built engine timeee🙌🏾
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      02-09-2021, 11:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pongkin View Post
i was still able to drive fine to the shop, i just replaced the crank hub
lucky it was just that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSF3014 View Post
Means built engine timeee🙌🏾
Hell yea man you drive a manual? What were you doing when it spun?
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      02-09-2021, 02:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DJSF3014 View Post
Hell yea man you drive a manual? What were you doing when it spun?
no automatic, just a typical day to the gym normal driving. After gym got in the car and the drivetrain popped up, checked it with bm3 cleared the faults but kept coming back. the day before i was doing logs just 3 pulls don't know if that started it 🤷*♂️
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      02-09-2021, 03:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pongkin View Post
i was still able to drive fine to the shop, i just replaced the crank hub
lucky it was just that
Were they able to determine the cause?

The CBC from vargas only solves the issue if the crank bolt begins to wiggle out. Would that have prevented your issue?
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      02-09-2021, 03:58 PM   #17
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Were they able to determine the cause?

The CBC from vargas only solves the issue if the crank bolt begins to wiggle out. Would that have prevented your issue?
That seems to be the consensus primary driver of most SCHs right now - the bolt losing torque and backing out, and it’s reductive effect on the CH breakaway threshold. A CBC is an extremely cheap way of ensuring that never happens.
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      02-09-2021, 08:02 PM   #18
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I don't know what is the cause

only symptom I noticed was that it cranked a lil longer starting up not all the time
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      02-09-2021, 08:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Here OP: https://vargasturbo.com/product/vtt-...nk-seal-guard/

They even do a package deal for a CBC if you're for some reason worried about SCH - together it's still less than the Kies seal
I installed the Kies Seal Guard. The Vargas thing looks like a cheap piece of crap that I bought from eBay before Kies came out with theirs.

Guys, the secret to seeing the engineering and quality is not to look at the front, look at the back! Please see photos.

The Vargas thing is just a thin flat plate that just slides around on the surface. It looks like they couldn't get it to fit so they made the holes oval. There's obviously a ridiculous amount of play in a piece of metal surrounding a crankshaft spinning at like 5,000 RPMs. Not very smart! The bolts don't even match. They want you to remove expensive BMW bolts from your engine and replace them with cheap hardware store junk.

Now, look at the back of my Kies Seal Guard. You can see that it doesn't just sit on the surface and slide around. It actually precision fits inside of the cylinder on the engine that holds the seal. It fits over the seal and wraps itself perfectly around the spinning crankshaft. It only fits one way- perfectly!
The seal guard holes are round and precisely match the holes on the engine. Kies even supplies genuine BMW bolts that are slightly longer than the stock BMW bolts being removed.

Just look at the back and you can easily see that there is no comparison in engineering or in quality. The Kies Seal Guard is designed to install on a BMW engine.
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