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      11-17-2011, 11:14 AM   #23
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I like what i'm hearing about the N20 and I can't wait to drive the new 3er with it. At this point I'm leaning twords this over the N55 for the next car.
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      11-17-2011, 11:19 AM   #24
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I guess i wont know how the new 3series drives till the one i order comes in...hopefully dealerships get new 3er test drive cars so he public can check them out, but i have a feeling there are still a lot of e90's out there.
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      11-17-2011, 12:19 PM   #25
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Switched from 335i to X1 and loving it.

Will have to change my login.

Changed my beloved 335i 2007 for a 2012 Black X1 (more appropriate here in Montreal) and, even if I was scared with the idea of a combo N20 - 8 speed, I must say that I'm pretty impressed.

Since it'll be the same mechanic in the F30, this combo really works.

Too sad that they went with E-steering ...
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      11-17-2011, 12:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i_4D View Post
Will have to change my login.

Changed my beloved 335i 2007 for a 2012 Black X1 (more appropriate here in Montreal) and, even if I was scared with the idea of a combo N20 - 8 speed, I must say that I'm pretty impressed.

Since it'll be the same mechanic in the F30, this combo really works.

Too sad that they went with E-steering ...
Does your X1 have the Esteering? if so what are your thought compared to the 335i?
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      11-17-2011, 02:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by alejotrujillo View Post
I'm 100% sure that it's going to be fine, but car journalists have to say something negative otherwise they will sound as BMW fanboys since it seems that everything in the F30 is fantastic.
So you are 100% sure that the steering will be great on a car that you've never driven, despite the consistent comments to the contrary from multiple journos that have actually driven one?

I would agree that it will likely be a decent setup, but I would also be very surprised if it's as good as the old hydraulic rack.
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      11-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #28
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Steering along with any other "feel" topics is very subjective. The majority of 3 series owners probably will prefer the new steering, and I would find it hard to believe they totally murder it like they did in the F10. Not gonna know till each of us drives it.
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      11-17-2011, 03:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Steering along with any other "feel" topics is very subjective. The majority of 3 series owners probably will prefer the new steering, and I would find it hard to believe they totally murder it like they did in the F10. Not gonna know till each of us drives it.
I'm hoping this is the case that BMW just toned it down a bit. If there is no effort to steer...(*sigh*) I don't like how the C-Class feels but after reading the reviews it's sounding like the F30 would feel similar and if that's the case, I think I could tolerate it.
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      11-17-2011, 05:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alejotrujillo View Post
IMO the E-steering thing is being blown completely out of proportion. Even the new Porsche 911 has one, and I would wait until I actually FEEL it before jumping to such dramatic conclusions.

I'm 100% sure that it's going to be fine, but car journalists have to say something negative otherwise they will sound as BMW fanboys since it seems that everything in the F30 is fantastic.
I bet youre exactly right. Do you really think Porsche and BMW are going to jeopardize massive sales for the sake of a few pounds (is that even the reason?). I doubt it.
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      11-17-2011, 06:32 PM   #31
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Exciting F30

Stagger wheels in F30. Right on!!
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      11-17-2011, 07:18 PM   #32
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Stagger wheels in F30. Right on!!
We know the 19" upgraded wheels are a staggered setup, still waiting on confirmation on the sportline. Looks like the sportline comes with 225/45/18 front and rear...hope i am wrong tho
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      11-18-2011, 11:25 AM   #33
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One of the most interesting things I've found about the new F30 drive reviews is that they all seem to really like the 328i and it's N20. It's almost as though they now view the 328i as an actual performance sedan contender, whereas before it was just the "3-series for the masses."
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      11-18-2011, 08:54 PM   #34
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love this car in red
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      11-18-2011, 08:55 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by AW128i View Post
One of the most interesting things I've found about the new F30 drive reviews is that they all seem to really like the 328i and it's N20. It's almost as though they now view the 328i as an actual performance sedan contender, whereas before it was just the "3-series for the masses."
yea, this 328 is going to be really nice with a 6speed.
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      11-19-2011, 01:38 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by AW128i View Post
One of the most interesting things I've found about the new F30 drive reviews is that they all seem to really like the 328i and it's N20. It's almost as though they now view the 328i as an actual performance sedan contender, whereas before it was just the "3-series for the masses."
Have any of the "first drive reviews" even been with the 335i?
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      11-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propagator View Post
So you are 100% sure that the steering will be great on a car that you've never driven, despite the consistent comments to the contrary from multiple journos that have actually driven one?

I would agree that it will likely be a decent setup, but I would also be very surprised if it's as good as the old hydraulic rack.
Do you really think BMW and Porsche are going to jeopardize their success by going to a steering set up that is inferior? Autobild (I think) raves about the steering. I bet if they hadnt told journalists that it had been changed there wouldnt be the negative comments.
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      11-19-2011, 02:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
This is what I am hoping to find out the most.

But I can already tell I won't like the 3 series, because the car got bigger.. so sad.



Lets just hope BMW doesn't muck up the M2, or M4.
Really? Its exactly 3.6" longer and 88 pound lighter.
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      11-19-2011, 09:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaker View Post
Do you really think BMW and Porsche are going to jeopardize their success by going to a steering set up that is inferior? Autobild (I think) raves about the steering. I bet if they hadnt told journalists that it had been changed there wouldnt be the negative comments.
That's a bit fanboish argument, don't you think? I think any company is capable of making a mistake, BMW and Porsche included.

But more importantly, we need to define what we mean by a good steering. This is what C&D said about the EPS in the new 911.

"Porsche’s attitude is that it is merely cleaning up flaws with the new car, but a lot of people like the character imparted by the old flaws."

As far as I understand, currently there simply does not exist an EPS system that can provide all the "road feel" (tugs and wiggles due to load and surface condition) of a good hydraulic setup, period. It is also true that the E9X rack did provide a decent amount of road feel. So I am 99% sure that the new rack in the F30 will not have all the liveliness of that in the E90.

The question then is whether this "feel" is important to you. I've read serious racing drivers saying they don't really care either way, but then I've also seen a lot of "purist" journos that obsess over this. I personally really like it, although I don't claim that it has any practical values, at least not on a public road. I can totally see why someone would prefer a smoother, lighter setup as long as it is precise, much like the VW GTI or some of the Honda setups. I do like those as well.
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      11-19-2011, 11:27 PM   #40
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I dunno about you guys, but I'm honestly scratching my head on the use of the 4-Cylinder Turbo in the 328i. It makes good numbers and getting great reviews, but the thought of using the N20in the 3-series comes across as BMW being a tad bit...lazy. If anything, that engine is perfect for the 1/2 Series and the Z4.

IMO, they could've introduced DI to the N52 engine which would've brought the engine up to 250+hp with the same mileage numbers before (Euro Spec). Introduced a larger Turbo I6 engine for the 335 (3.2L or larger).

I love my e92 like most people... so the thought of getting an i4 is a lil crazy... I would've gotten an Audi if I wanted a 4-cylinder, lol...
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      11-20-2011, 12:08 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSavvy View Post
I dunno about you guys, but I'm honestly scratching my head on the use of the 4-Cylinder Turbo in the 328i. It makes good numbers and getting great reviews, but the thought of using the N20in the 3-series comes across as BMW being a tad bit...lazy. If anything, that engine is perfect for the 1/2 Series and the Z4.

IMO, they could've introduced DI to the N52 engine which would've brought the engine up to 250+hp with the same mileage numbers before (Euro Spec). Introduced a larger Turbo I6 engine for the 335 (3.2L or larger).

I love my e92 like most people... so the thought of getting an i4 is a lil crazy... I would've gotten an Audi if I wanted a 4-cylinder, lol...
N20 will probably dump on audi's 2.0t
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      11-20-2011, 07:53 AM   #42
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I hope it does! Hopefully it will have no HPFP problems.
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      11-23-2011, 10:32 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propagator View Post
That's a bit fanboish argument, don't you think? I think any company is capable of making a mistake, BMW and Porsche included.

But more importantly, we need to define what we mean by a good steering. This is what C&D said about the EPS in the new 911.

"Porsche’s attitude is that it is merely cleaning up flaws with the new car, but a lot of people like the character imparted by the old flaws."

As far as I understand, currently there simply does not exist an EPS system that can provide all the "road feel" (tugs and wiggles due to load and surface condition) of a good hydraulic setup, period. It is also true that the E9X rack did provide a decent amount of road feel. So I am 99% sure that the new rack in the F30 will not have all the liveliness of that in the E90.

The question then is whether this "feel" is important to you. I've read serious racing drivers saying they don't really care either way, but then I've also seen a lot of "purist" journos that obsess over this. I personally really like it, although I don't claim that it has any practical values, at least not on a public road. I can totally see why someone would prefer a smoother, lighter setup as long as it is precise, much like the VW GTI or some of the Honda setups. I do like those as well.
Its called LOGIC. Top Gear says its still best in segment. Name another Magazine...same thing. I'm an Audi/Porsche guy anyway.
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      11-27-2011, 04:51 PM   #44
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Was thinking that too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Steering along with any other "feel" topics is very subjective. The majority of 3 series owners probably will prefer the new steering, and I would find it hard to believe they totally murder it like they did in the F10. Not gonna know till each of us drives it.
I was thinking somewhat like this...if the 3 series is the benchmark for all other small sport sedans, and part of its character is steering, then they will try to retain that characteristic, albeit finding better and improved technological advances. Unless the mechanics are totally different from the hydraulic systems (I am no expert so I have no idea), maybe they found out a way to retain at least hints of the traditional steering traits of the 3 series, while implementing something better from a technological point of view. I donīt know how exactly electromechanical steering systems work, but at least I hope I donīt have to go around every year and a half checking the damn hydraulic fluid container and / or the respective hoses checking for them being "calcified" by the heat, or developing leaks due also to heat damaging the seals...things which I think every BMW owner has experienced at one time in life. If this system is as well developed as germans do their stuff while eliminating the need for pesky liquids, I will be happy with one of these...
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