12-29-2018, 08:38 PM | #1 |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
N47 Engine Surges
Drive a 2014 328d and the engine surges when stopped in traffic and in drive. If I shift to Park the surge is eliminated and the engine idles normally. Anyone else experience this sort of thing or have any ideas? BMW has checked the car and say it’s within BMW specs (can’t find any problems).
|
12-29-2018, 09:12 PM | #2 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1486
Rep 1,856
Posts |
What exactly do you mean by surging?
Do you know what software versions (i-level) your car is on? It may just need a software update.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-30-2018, 11:56 AM | #3 |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
okay, what i mean by surge is a noticeable variation in RPM--after I come to a stop the engine’s idle--the engine’s rpm at idle is not consistent and not smooth but surges above and below what is ‘normal’ (guessing the normal idle is around 700 rpm).
you can hear the surging and see it on the tach--the engine may climb by 100 or 200 rpm and then decline back 100 or 200 rpm below it’s normal idle speed--regularly and rapidly as in every second. it only happens at a stop and does not affect the driving experience in any other noticeable way. basically, my concern is that the idle is not smooth or consistent if the car is in drive at a full stop. However, if I shift the car out of drive and into park the idle smooths right out--becomes what i would consider normal. Also, when the car is in eco-pro and coasting and the engine is de-coupled from the transmission the car idles normally, which makes me wonder if the surging is somehow related to the engine being coupled with the transmission. this abnormal surging started out of blue when the car had around 20K miles on it. it had never happened before and when the car went in for it’s next scheduled annual maintenance i explained it to the BMW service manager and he said the car was due for a new fuel filter and he thought that might sort things out (but it didn’t help much). BMW also contacted the folks at BMW of NA and they suggested checking the mass air flow component and BMW did replace this part but the car still has the surging. seems (to me) like it might be related to the drive train since it only exhibits when the engine is coupled to the transmission at low (near idle) engine speeds and can usually be corrected by shifting from drive to park (which is a nuisance to have to do at every stop) appreciate any thoughts or if anyone else with a similar vehicle (mine is the 2014 US version of the 328d--twin turbo, four-cylinder diesel--with the N47 engine and 8-speed automatic transmission) has experienced similar. this is a rear wheel drive only car--not the AWD version of the car. Last edited by gryffishhawk; 12-30-2018 at 12:01 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-30-2018, 11:58 AM | #4 |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
Thanks for the heads-up on i-level/software versions. I don’t know what i-level the car is on. How would I find out more about this? Dealer? Or can the car’s computer system report this to me?
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-31-2018, 11:33 AM | #5 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1486
Rep 1,856
Posts |
The dealer can, yes.
Or if you have an ENET cable with Esys or ISTA-D programs, you can see and update those yourself (with caution and some experience).
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-31-2018, 02:25 PM | #6 |
Brigadier General
4197
Rep 3,644
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Did you see my questions to this in the other thread you posted about this issue?
Does this happen when the car is undergoing a regen? Does it happen when the car is still warming up (coolant temp not up to the 190-210 normal operating range)? Does it only happen in cold weather? I've noticed this same behavior on two occasions when stopped at stoplights. The conditions I noticed were that it was cold outside (morning) and the car wasn't warmed up yet (coolant temps weren't near the normal operating range). Once warmed up on the same drives the idle went back to smooth and consistent. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 06:25 PM | #7 | |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 06:28 PM | #8 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Here is my original question from 12/27. My car currently has 16,000 miles and has behaved similarly since new.
Wanted to inquire someone with a strange problem. I seem to be more sensitive to it and am noticing it once in a while. The car (2018 328d) has 16,000 miles and still covered under warranty. However, given how infrequent and intermittent it is, I am unable to capture it on video, much less likely that the dealer will replicate it. Since new, the car exhibited vibration patterns that were variable. Most of the time, when stopped, the car would either vibrate consistently (r-r-r-r-r) or have a slight change in sound and vibration patterns (R-r-R-r-R). I was thinking - maybe some accessory comes on and car changes the pattern. Almost like goes from consistent purr to a variable purr every other second. Nothing uncomfortable and you have to listen and feel carefully. When it goes into this strange tempo, if you barely touch the throttle to move the car at lower RPMs, sometimes (not always) it also feels like the car is shaky a bit - it accelerates in a tempo-like fashion. Give a good throttle and will feel no different than normal. The funny thing is - if you put the car into neutral and back to D, the purring goes to consistent. So I don't think it is engine related. Doubt would be accessory related either, since that should have nothing to do with changing car to N and back. I was thinking maybe it does it during regen and placing in Neutral cancels regen mode, but I have no reason to believe that would have such an effect. No visible shakiness of tachometer needle. ISTA D brings up no errors. I checked injectors and they all passed smooth idle test. Since I cannot myself consistently replicate the issue, I doubt dealer would be either. Anyone have any suggestions to check, including checks with ISTA? I am considering transmission adaptation next, but I am stumped as what this could be related to. Or would that be normal? Transmission shifts perfectly every time, nothing unusual since new. Upshifts are barely noticeable, downshifts are more noticeable but still smooth. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 10:06 PM | #9 | |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
Quote:
So, embarrassing but I’m not familiar with the term ‘regen'. Does this refer to the car’s emissions control system (use of adblue/DEF for emissions control, etc)? If so, I found a note in the manual that the engine will run rough when the burning or cleaning of soot, etc occurs and so, I’ve hoped this was what i was experiencing, however, not sure that’s the case because the engine never surged until around 20K miles and it can happen too frequently to only assume an emissions control process, etc. Also, the surge has happened with both a cold engine and an engine at normal operating temps (say after a 15 minute highway drive). The car has never been in freezing conditions. The lowest temp its ever operated in was around 37 degrees Fahrenheit. Most of the time the car is operated between 70 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit as I live in a sub-tropical region (Florida). It seems to primarily occur when the engine is coupled to the transmission at idle. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 10:19 PM | #10 | |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
Quote:
All the BMW diagnostics came back as the car is running (perfectly) in specs with the manufacturer and so, service center contacted BMW NA and they suggested the mass airflow sensor and so the service center replaced this component under warranty but the car still surges despite all these efforts. Intuitively, I think something is amiss but none of the experts or the computer diagnostics are able to pinpoint the problem. As it only happens when the engine is coupled to the transmission (idles fine in PARK just not in DRIVE), it seems like it might have something to do with how the engine and transmission come together at idle but only under certain conditions as it occurs or appears to occur randomly?? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 10:24 PM | #11 | |
Brigadier General
4197
Rep 3,644
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Quote:
You say it only started occurring in 20k miles, but perhaps you've just been "lucky" and not had a regen occur during idle prior to that? If you shut the car off during a regen sometimes the fan will come on and run for a while to cool things down. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2019, 11:27 PM | #12 | |
New Member
6
Rep 10
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-02-2019, 08:12 AM | #13 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Here is a YouTube link to the sound the engine makes when this "surging" experience happens. The tach is usually very stable or variation that is not noticeable. But you can hear that surging sound and you can feel surging vibration in the steering wheel also. And goes away immediately upon putting the car out of drive. Can you post your videos?
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-02-2019, 11:13 AM | #14 | |||
Brigadier General
4197
Rep 3,644
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
Appreciate
0
|
01-03-2019, 02:45 PM | #16 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Since it seems to affect all of us in a similar fashion, do you think this is considered normal? Especially since it doesn't really affect drive-ability in any way. But you can hear in my video when I place the car in Park, the surging immediately disappears. So it's not transmission (shift just fine) and not engine (stops surging when in neutral/park).
Do any of you have ISTA to check current software version? If we have same software version, it is possible that may be the culprit. Mine says that update is available, but given I am still under warranty, I will beg my dealer to update it at my 20,000 oil change visit. I still plan to perform transmission adaptation to see if that will eliminate infrequent surging idle. Nowadays, I only notice it once a month, which makes diagnosing it so much harder. At that time, I will also check and post my current software version. I think someone with E90 had similar issue, which was resolved following DME update. At least my worry about something being wrong with transmission or engine is resolved, given this seems to be a "normal" occurrence. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-04-2019, 10:18 PM | #18 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
The hope is to delete EGR, DPF, and SCR but only after all warranties expire. I am in a state that has no annual inspection, and definitely no emissions inspection. So that won't be an issue. But while I have warranty in place, I'd rather keep everything stock to reduce chances of voiding coverage. Plan is to disable EGR first once warranty is out, then delete DPF and SCR once it requires service, likely around 100K miles.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2019, 09:12 AM | #20 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Well, the cold weather is back upon us here in Deep South and the car reminded me that it likes to surge when engine is cold. Still not sure if that is normal or not. Looks like someone with older N47 engine got the surging to stop by replacing fuel quantity control valve on HPFP, but with car now at 30,000 miles with this starting when it was new, I just cannot believe that anything is out of whack from new and happens exactly the same to other folks. Any updates on your vehicles since winter is close?
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2019, 09:59 AM | #21 | |
Second Lieutenant
56
Rep 238
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2019, 10:34 AM | #22 |
First Lieutenant
353
Rep 365
Posts |
Nope, zero codes in the system. Also checked consistently with ISTA/D. Just as gryffishhawk showed video to dealer, they said no codes and unable to reproduce at dealer. To be frank, our dealer is quite poor in their abilities. If they screw up oil changes, what else can you expect from them?
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|