[Savageenterprise]

Anyone have issues with intake temperatures running the BMS intake?. I bought it ahead of time but haven't installed it yet due to this concern. Any feedback/experience would be great to hear, thanks.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

Anyone have issues with intake temperatures running the BMS intake?. I bought it ahead of time but haven't installed it yet due to this concern. Any feedback/experience would be great to hear, thanks.

Install it and enjoy

Heat from an open intake is not a concern on turbo cars, thats why you have an intercooler.

[dereksM3]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Install it and enjoy

Heat from an open intake is not a concern on turbo cars, thats why you have an intercooler.

Mike, no disrespect but still never going to agree with this comment. Simple physics prove this wrong in every scenario.

This is akin to saying outside ambient temps have no effect on your car...they clearly do.

Your intercooler only has so much thermal capacity and if you raise your IAT's by 20-30° you still see this on the manifold side effectively altering your timing and/or fueling. IAT temps have a significant impact on thermal efficiency of these cars and it's been proven the A2W intercooler on B58's isn't near as efficient as say an M3.

*I own a BMS intake* and I generally don't see higher IAT's, however in stop and go driving in summer time I definitely do and you can feel the power drop off. Intercoolers don't make magic happen...they control intake temperatures only to a certain extent. Efficient closed intake systems are superior in generally every way...there is reason every level of motorsports racing doesn't slap on a cone filter and call it day.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by dereksM3

Still never going to agree with this comment. Simple physics prove this wrong in every scenario.

This is akin to saying outside ambient temps have no effect on your car...they clearly do.

Your intercooler only has so much thermal capacity and if you raise your IAT's by 20-30° you still see this on the manifold side effectively altering your timing and/or fueling. IAT temps have a significant impact on thermal efficiency of these cars and it's been proven the A2W intercooler on B58's isn't near as efficient as say an M3.

*I own a BMS intake* and I generally don't see higher IAT's, however in stop and go driving in summer time I definitely do and you can feel the power drop off*. Intercoolers don't make magic happen...they control intake temperatures only to a certain extent. Efficient closed intake systems are superior in generally every way...there is reason every level of motorsports racing doesn't slap on a cone filter and call it day.

All the comparison data i have seen show no negative effect from open intakes.

When/If new data show otherwise, i will gladly change my mind.

[dereksM3]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

All the comparison data i have seen show no negative effect from open intakes.

When/If new data show otherwise, i will gladly change my mind.

What comparative data do you speak of? Not trying to me an arse here but anybody that's tuned a car or understands thermodynamics can clearly see how higher intake temps alters timing and other parameters. An open air intake in this regard unless significantly shielded or has direct access to exterior ambient air (ram intake) will always produce higher IAT's.

I assume the comparison data you speak of is with a large dyno fan pointing right at the engine bay...this doesn't even come close to replicating the dynamic loading the engine sees during various drive cycles. There's a significant difference between understanding these facts and misinterpreting skewed results...

From a simplistic point of view let me ask you this, if additional heat was not an issue on intercooled cars why would nearly every single MFG work to design elaborate shielding to help mitigate the additional temperatures open air intakes are subject to? Furthermore, to support your theory why would every level of Motorsports racing not just slap a cone filter on their cars then?

Last but not least here's a relatively simple article explaining the above in more detail: http://www.zerotohundred.com/2017/ho...ith-high-iats/

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by dereksM3

What comparative data do you speak of? Not trying to me an arse here but anybody that's tuned a car or understands thermodynamics can clearly see how higher intake temps alters timing and other parameters. An open air intake in this regard unless significantly shielded or has direct access to exterior ambient air (ram intake) will always produce higher IAT's.

I assume the comparison data you speak of is with a large dyno fan pointing right at the engine bay...this doesn't even come close to replicating the dynamic loading the engine sees during various drive cycles. There's a significant difference between understanding these facts and misinterpreting skewed results...

From a simplistic point of view let me ask you this, if additional heat was not an issue on intercooled cars why would nearly every single MFG work to design elaborate shielding to help mitigate the additional temperatures open air intakes are subject to? Furthermore, to support your theory why would every level of Motorsports racing not just slap a cone filter on their cars then?

Last but not least here's a relatively simple article explaining the above in more detail: http://www.zerotohundred.com/2017/ho...ith-high-iats/

Burger Tuning did an N54 comparison and it showed that open vs closed did not make any difference in real life.
Anyone can do the same comparison with the B58 and post the results.

You are posting theories without any real life proof like actual temp comparison.

[B58]

This goes way back to the N54 dual intake cone days testing with the filters and the stock closed air box: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showp...70&postcount=1

[dereksM3]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Burger Tuning did an N54 comparison and it showed that open vs closed did not make any difference in real life.
Anyone can do the same comparison with the B58 and post the results.

You are posting theories without any real life proof like actual temp comparison.

I'll preface my comments with this, I've had a number of BMS products over the years, some good some not so I wouldn't consider myself biased - I buy what works. With that said, their level of empirical data or comparisons compared to many other more notable companies leaves a bit to be desired. The above mentioned N54 testing is no more conclusive than it is theory, see below:

- Lack of any level of temperature instrumentation before or aft the intake such as thermocouples to measure the temperature delta?
- Did they measure the mass flow to check for any differences in measured CFM?
- Also, no mention of logging AFR to see any effects of said intake?
- What conditions did they test in? No mention of ambient temperatures or humidity. Testing in various atmospheric conditions will produce DRASTICALLY different results...obviously a known fact.
- Were these results averaged out over a number of runs for a consistency in observed deltas?
- Insert missing variable here that would impact results...

On the flip side you say my posts are based on theory, unfortunately this is proven FACT...it's called the Law of Conservation of Energy, or better known as The First Law of Thermodynamics. Intercoolers (heat exchangers) don't magically make heat disappear as you infer, they have a level of thermal efficiency that dictate the maximum level of heat capacitance that's available. In layman terms: more heat in = more heat out which equates to less performance. Just to reiterate and be clear I'm not arguing and saying the BMS intake magically turns these engines into a hairdryer...I'm saying your generalized comment "Heat from an open intake is not a concern on turbo cars, thats why you have an intercooler" is absolutely a false blanket statement.

But I digress, none of the above matters for the average person deciding on open vs closed intakes that want a little extra noise. For some people that actually understand the engineering principals that define efficiently designed components...it matters. My point is blanket claims that are slightly misinformed I find a bit misleading...that's all. I'll leave it at that

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by dereksM3

But I digress, none of the above matters for the average person deciding on open vs closed intakes that want a little extra noise. For some people that actually understand the engineering principals that define efficiently designed components...it matters. My point is blanket claims that are slightly misinformed I find a bit misleading...that's all. I'll leave it at that

All im asking you is to post actual data backing your FACTS that there are open vs closed makes any difference in real life (not on paper). You claim BMS data is insufficient when you did not even post 1 single data from an actual B58 car.

By the way, just because we do not agree does not make me someone that does not understand engineering principals. I have 2 engineering degrees

[B58]

From my view... closed intake or open, the air being drawn in is still hitting the compressor side of the turbo so that’s obviously heating up prior to the water-air intercooler. Open filters does have the advantage of drawing in more air.

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by B58

From my view... closed intake or open, the air being drawn in is still hitting the compressor side of the turbo so that’s obviously heating up prior to the water-air intercooler. Open filters does have the advantage of drawing in more air.

Bingo...
Hate to bump an old thread but this is spot on. The air in the turbo is already hot as hell in comparison to the heat in the engine bay. Turbo doesn't mind the "hot" air as much as people think, it just wants more of it.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ocN55

Bingo...
Hate to bump an old thread but this is spot on. The air in the turbo is already hot as hell in comparison to the heat in the engine bay. Turbo doesn't mind the "hot" air as much as people think, it just wants more of it.

+1

[B58]

Just run meth and never worry

[MTWO]

Originally Posted by B58

Just run meth and never worry

Its quite the opposite. With meth you’ll always worry.

[B58]

Originally Posted by MTWO

Its quite the opposite. With meth you’ll always worry.

Been running meth for years.... don't fear it

[E90ROXS]

You can run with the hood off. Problem is solved. Don't need to argue.

[BornATeste]

Someone should log the bms intake and the oem intake in the same afternoon. IATs and all the other sensors should yield some evidence.

[B58]

Originally Posted by BornATeste

Someone should log the bms intake and the oem intake in the same afternoon. IATs and all the other sensors should yield some evidence.

That test was done during the N54 DCI days so i don't think BMS will do further testing plus the B58 is water to air cooled so it's much more efficient and everything else is practically based on your opinion and what you think is best for your car performance wise:

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showp...70&postcount=1

[Fuel-It!]

I run the BMS intake in our Pure Stage2 B58, never had an issue with heat soak! The key is keeping the factory plastic airbox in place to block radiant heat and duct cold air towards the filter.

[ErkanTR16]

I had the BMS and was really disappointed with the sound and quality of the product. The AP fits perfectly fine and i have no issues with it. The sound is definitely louder which is a plus for me.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ErkanTR16

I had the BMS and was really disappointed with the sound and quality of the product. The AP fits perfectly fine and i have no issues with it. The sound is definitely louder which is a plus for me.

Looks good

[CntryClub007]

Originally Posted by ErkanTR16

I had the BMS and was really disappointed with the sound and quality of the product. The AP fits perfectly fine and i have no issues with it. The sound is definitely louder which is a plus for me.

Looks solid!