[Kyuuseishu]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

My post (the list as you say) only gives data to governments own MHRA yellow data scheme which somehow you won't hear a single thing on BBC or mean stream media.
there's more than 1000 deaths only from AstraZeneca vaccine on it's own.
I am not responsible of your health , I'm only responsible of my health this is the moral attitude I have. Not accepting the vaccine with only benefits to pharmaceutical companies and billionaires is not selfish in any form. I am sound and I am healthy so I dont see the need for vaccine or any form of medical intervention to my body. %99.98 people recover from this virus within 2 weeks. again this is according to National statistics agency's numbers, I'm not making numbers. It's the government who makes numbers as public well aware.
NHS is here to lookafter me as a citizen of United Kingdom ,I'm not here to save NHS.
I know so many people who felt obliged to have the vaccine even they really didnt want to,that's cos of the threats by government not being able to go to pub and have a pint never mind going abroad for holiday.

There is a reason more and more countries have mandatory vaccination because if you can do something which is reasonably harmless (on a balance of probability) which reduces the spread of an infectious disease, then you, as a moral person, should do it. Women who take the pill have a higher chance of forming a clot than you would receiving a vaccine. Ban the pill I guess? Everything carries a risk regardless of what we do, unfortunate and unforseen reactions happen all the time with drugs. People still take them because it's the moral thing to do to protect those in society who are unlucky enough to be immunocompromised in some way, be it genetic, disease, or age.

Your view on the NHS is also absurd, yes the NHS is here to take care of us when we fall ill, however we should also all take every reasonable measure so that happens the least amount of times as possible.

I also have a problem with your number, as it cannot be that high. Using current data, roughly 4.44million infections are recorded for the UK, and around 127k deaths, that is a death rate of almost 3%. Also recovered does not account for those with long term health effects, just because you didn't die from it doesn't mean you 'recovered'.

[SteveChester]

The problem with arguing with idiots is they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I often bear this in mind

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by B58_f32

Yes the yellow card which no media mentions, I too have read up on that. So many cases of blood clots in healthy people. None of us know the long term effects. What will this vaccine do to our bodies in a few years times. Yes they have saved life's in the short term and helped us get out of lockdown. But in 2 years or 5 years what effects could you have.

I would prob get as its the only way to freedom, ie holidays, bars and clubs etc

So why is no one mentioning? surely one of the big media groups could make a killing if they ran with this story if its true. So the fact they dont suggests what...?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by B58_f32

Yes the yellow card which no media mentions, I too have read up on that. So many cases of blood clots in healthy people. None of us know the long term effects. What will this vaccine do to our bodies in a few years times. Yes they have saved life's in the short term and helped us get out of lockdown. But in 2 years or 5 years what effects could you have.

I would prob get as its the only way to freedom, ie holidays, bars and clubs etc

Done a bit of basic googling and the gov website has this to say on yellow card notifications post vaccinations, which I think is what you are basing your evidence on.... its quite long but I have added my italics to key bits to help....

Part of our monitoring role includes reviewing reports of suspected side effects. Any member of the public or health professional can submit suspected side effects through the Yellow Card scheme. The nature of Yellow Card reporting means that reported events are not always proven side effects. Some events may have happened anyway, regardless of vaccination. This is particularly the case when millions of people are vaccinated, and especially when most vaccines are being given to the most elderly people and people who have underlying illness.

This safety update report is based on detailed analysis of data up to 5 May 2021. At this date, an estimated 11.4 million first doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and 23.3 million first doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca had been administered, and around 8.7 million and 7.5 million second doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca respectively. An approximate 0.1 million first doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna have also now been administered.

As of 5 May 2021, for the UK, 55,716 Yellow Cards have been reported for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, 167,141 have been reported for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 1081 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 606 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified.

For the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca vaccines the overall reporting rate is around 3 to 6 Yellow Cards per 1,000 doses administered.

In the week since the previous summary for 28 April 2021 we have received a further 1,577 Yellow Cards for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, 6,598 for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 398 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 32 where the brand was not specified.

It is important to note that Yellow Card data cannot be used to derive side effect rates or compare the safety profile of COVID-19 vaccinations as many factors can influence ADR reporting.

For all COVID-19 vaccines, the overwhelming majority of reports relate to injection-site reactions (sore arm for example) and generalised symptoms such as ‘flu-like’ illness, headache, chills, fatigue (tiredness), nausea (feeling sick), fever, dizziness, weakness, aching muscles, and rapid heartbeat. Generally, these happen shortly after the vaccination and are not associated with more serious or lasting illness.

These types of reactions reflect the normal immune response triggered by the body to the vaccines. They are typically seen with most types of vaccine and tend to resolve within a day or two. The nature of reported suspected side effects is broadly similar across age groups, although, as was seen in clinical trials and as is usually seen with other vaccines, they may be reported more frequently in younger adults.

Nothing there to worry me. Or most educated people. Which is why the media arent reporting on it.

[Techno 9000]

Similar to yourself I too 'googled' MHRA and found the following report



https://www.gov.uk/government/public...card-reporting

Below is an extract that relates to deaths.

"Events with a fatal outcome
Vaccination and surveillance of large populations means that, by chance, some people will experience and report a new illness or events in the days and weeks after vaccination. A high proportion of people vaccinated early in the vaccination campaign were very elderly, and/or had pre-existing medical conditions. Older age and chronic underlying illnesses make it more likely that coincidental adverse events will occur, especially given the millions of people vaccinated. It is therefore important that we carefully review these reports to distinguish possible side effects from illness that would have occurred irrespective of vaccination. Fatal cases associated with extremely rare blood clots with lowered platelets are described above.

Part of our continuous analysis includes an evaluation of natural death rates over time, to determine if any specific trends or patterns are occurring that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. Based on age-stratified all-cause mortality in England and Wales taken from the Office for National Statistics death registrations, several thousand deaths are expected to have occurred, naturally, within 7 days of the many millions of doses of vaccines administered so far, mostly in the elderly.

The MHRA has received 370 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 756 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 2 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 15 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca has increased rapidly and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccine played a role in the death.

A range of other isolated or series of reports of non-fatal, serious suspected ADRs have been reported. These all remain under continual review, including through analysis of expected rates in the absence of vaccine. There are currently no indications of specific patterns or rates of reporting that would suggest the vaccine has played a role.

4. Conclusion
At the time of this report, over 127,500 people across the UK have died within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus.

Vaccination is the single most effective way to reduce deaths and severe illness from COVID-19. A national immunisation campaign has been underway since early December 2020.

In clinical trials, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca and COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna have demonstrated very high levels of protection against symptomatic infection. Data are now available on the impact of the vaccination campaign in reducing infections and illness in the UK.

All vaccines and medicines have some side effects. These side effects need to be continuously balanced against the expected benefits in preventing illness.

Following widespread use of these vaccines across the UK, the vast majority of suspected adverse reaction reports so far confirm the safety profile seen in clinical trials. Most reports relate to injection-site reactions (sore arm for example) and generalised symptoms such as a ‘flu-like’ illness, headache, chills, fatigue, nausea, fever, dizziness, weakness, aching muscles, and rapid heartbeat. Generally, these reactions are not associated with more serious illness and likely reflect an expected, normal immune response to the vaccines.

Cases of an extremely rare specific type of blood clot with low blood platelets is being investigated and updated advice has been provided.

The expected benefits of the vaccines in preventing COVID-19 and serious complications associated with COVID-19 far outweigh any currently known side effects. As with all vaccines and medicines, the safety of COVID-19 vaccines is continuously monitored and benefits and possible risks remain under review.

We take every report of a suspected ADR seriously and encourage everyone to report through the Yellow Card scheme."

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

1. why dont you spend some time and do your own research on governments yellow data scheme and find out reported Adverse reactions of Vaccines . official MHRA yellow data scheme website.
its believed that only %10 percent of people of who suffered/ing from vaccine adverse reactions so this is only small proportion of it.
2. who told you once you take the vaccine you'll stop spreading the virus or catching the virus??
it's their own claim that these vaccines won't stop you catching the virus or spreading it.
I'm not an antivaccer but I am against these vaccines what's being force onto people.
I have met a lady only 2 weeks ago who lost her husband direct adverse reaction of the AstraZeneca vaccine, who cried and kept apologising for crying which was even more heartbreaking . she had no clue about existing of the yellow data card scheme like many. Another relative who felt extremely unwell and went to doctors and the respond she got from the stuff was " everybody is blaming vaccines for all illnesses these days"
no smoke no fire.
as I stated on my first comment, if you can take the vaccine take it, I respect everyone but DO NOT tell me what to do if you do
One must mind their own business in the politest manner!

On the first point, I have. From the govt. It gives me comfort. I spend my life getting competing views on a subject and deciding which I believe, in this case its not yours.

On the who tells you point, doctors, virologists, independent experts, there are even a couple on here. No vested interest in it.

So you come on here spouting about why people shouldnt have the vaccine but then accuse me of telling you what to do? Amazing.

And you are an anti vaxxer as you are on the internet telling people why its a bad idea. But you seemingly arent intelligent enough to make your own mind up so you trust one website against a massive amount of other data covering countries of all political persuasions across the world....

Enjoy being unvaccinated. Please stay home and keep other people safe. And if they remove restrictions on 21st June, please keep them as you have no risk mitigation to protect you...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

Official government MHRA database

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ysis_Print.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ysis_Print.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ysis_print.pdf

do you understand all those medical terms and what the reported impact is? does it say that the reported impact is the CAUSE of the vaccine, or something observed at the same time? are any of them the NORMAL pre warned side effects that people may have from the vaccine?

The fact its govt data and no one else seems to think it is of concern might give you a clue as to whether it is of concern...

[JNW1]

There seems to be an increasing concern about the new Indian variant and in particular a worry it's looking like being more transmissible than other strains of the virus. Hopefully it won't delay the lifting of lockdown measures but only time will tell; however, if it does will questions be asked as to why India wasn't placed on the red list sooner? It's been obvious for a while things weren't good over there but we seemed very reluctant to stop people coming from India and entering the UK ...

[CajunBMW]

That is a good point about the covid deaths. The official statistics have vastly under reported the deaths, mental health and long term impacts of the pandemic. It will take years to know the true death total but likely under reported by 25%-30% in some countries based on available statistics. This is certainly true in the US and imagine the same in the UK. Long COVID is also vastly under reported and really in many cases clinics are opening up to deal with this long term impact. This doesn't even touch the mental health impact and that seem from drug addiction.

They have also over reported the risk to benefit ratio of the vaccine. Which is a shame.

I think one has to be very careful using these stats without a verified statement of what is actually measured. I will make no statement on those facts, since I don't know what they are really measuring and this are uninterpretable in their present form. I do know they don't jive with our data, but without knowing what is defined in each category and each value they are as I said uninterpretable to me. Clots have been argued to have been seen in 1/250,000 vaccinations with AZ. That is a far lower risk of clots than seen following surgery in which heparin is used (i.e HIT risk).

I think healthy discussions are always good but for me I need facts. The same holds true for the vaccine.

So here are issue that I have: So if the risk of a problem is the vaccine because it is unnatural why would the virus risk which is also unnatural be any different short or long term. We know or the rate of infection and history with the other benign CoVs tells us that in the next 2-3 years nearly everyone will become infected.

For the AZ vaccine, the vector that everyone worries about (the adenovirus vector), has already been put in almost every human alive many times. So based on that data, how is the AZ vaccine any different. For the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, they use a piece of the virus, which since almost every human alive is going to get the virus within the next 2-3 years how is the risk of a piece of the virus that prevents serious disease worse than getting the virus itself?

In speaking of the virus the one we saw at the beginning of the pandemic is no longer with us. This new CoV is having fun with us humans and is now more infectious and more deadly.

I completely agree that at this point vaccines can be optional, but in human history the two biggest changes or advances that have positively impacted human health are sanitation and vaccines. Both of these advances mitigated the spread and seriousness of infectious diseases.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by JNW1

There seems to be an increasing concern about the new Indian variant and in particular a worry it's looking like being more transmissible than other strains of the virus. Hopefully it won't delay the lifting of lockdown measures but only time will tell; however, if it does will questions be asked as to why India wasn't placed on the red list sooner? It's been obvious for a while things weren't good over there but we seemed very reluctant to stop people coming from India and entering the UK ...

That variant that you mention does seem to be more transmissible, but I dont know if on a one to one basis it is more transmissible than the UK variant, the Brazilian variant, etc. for example the UK variant (B.1.1.7) is everywhere here now. We take all positives and sequence them for public health and the dominant strain is now the UK variant. We are starting to see the P1 variant or Brazilian variant.

To state the obvious the situation in India is tragic and will likely have global implications. Based on my experience there is no evidence that any variant can outwit the vaccines. For natural infections the answer for some seems yes, the virus can outwit the response of an infection. Which is sort of interesting to ponder. Get the vaccine and in general you will be strongly to moderately protected from all strains as of right now or take the risk of getting the virus, which is likely in my guess to over 90%, and then get it over and over again. The vaccine gives a killer immune response that is much greater than that seen in many infected folks (not all of course, as some folks have some a good response).

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by B58_f32

Maximise these next few weeks before Boris does a u turn, see all you family/friends whilst you can. Go to the pubs, shops etc. Book your break in UK somewhere. TBH this country or any other one is not going to get zero covid. As long as deaths within 28 days of a positive test are low which they are then it shouldn't change. The warning signs were there in Early march about india/pakistan. Pakistan was on a red list first then India.

India situation is worse due to modhi. He is ruining the farmers life's with his stupid farming bills. Then throughout covid letting political rallies go on.

Also people saying the Indian strain, it is not. All strains are the chinese strain, just mutations of it. So kent etc are chinese that have mutated.

Are you Hooded in disguise?.

[SkyJawa]

Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio to name a handful - wonder why we don’t get those anymore?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

did you ask the same question about the claimed covid deaths??

No I look at the ONS data on excess deaths versus the long term average and decide that unless there is a massive worldwide conspiracy, I'll go with them being a fair reflection....

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by B58_f32

Maximise these next few weeks before Boris does a u turn, see all you family/friends whilst you can. Go to the pubs, shops etc. Book your break in UK somewhere. TBH this country or any other one is not going to get zero covid. As long as deaths within 28 days of a positive test are low which they are then it shouldn't change. The warning signs were there in Early march about india/pakistan. Pakistan was on a red list first then India.

India situation is worse due to modhi. He is ruining the farmers life's with his stupid farming bills. Then throughout covid letting political rallies go on.

Also people saying the Indian strain, it is not. All strains are the chinese strain, just mutations of it. So kent etc are chinese that have mutated.

That's what strain means, it's a mutated version of the virus. So the Indian strain was first found in India. It's not tricky but you seem to be wanting to blame the Chinese for everything. Hope your wife isn't cooking dim sum for dinner.

[DougMcL]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

I'm not an antivaccer but I am against these vaccines what's being force onto people.
I have met a lady only 2 weeks ago who lost her husband direct adverse reaction of the AstraZeneca vaccine, who cried and kept apologising for crying which was even more heartbreaking . she had no clue about existing of the yellow data card scheme like many. Another relative who felt extremely unwell and went to doctors and the respond she got from the stuff was " everybody is blaming vaccines for all illnesses these days"
no smoke no fire.
as I stated on my first comment, if you can take the vaccine take it, I respect everyone but DO NOT tell me what to do if you do
One must mind their own business in the politest manner!

You are an antivaccer (sic) by the very nature of your posting.

All vaccines have side effects and are to be expected. I am not telling you what to do, but the very nature of your comments would indicate that you are a selfish and self-centred individual.

Yes, you may be healthy and not at risk (at least not from the CURRENT strains), but you are putting others at risk if you become infected and infect them. You aren't going to change any of our minds on here as most of us have common sense and understand risk benefit analysis. We have already made up our minds so you are wasting your time.

You might be better trolling somewhere else like Facebook, where the gullible are more likely to believe your misguided interpretation of the data.

Good luck, and I hope you don't become one of those 40-50 something, previously fit individuals who spent 60+ days on a ventilator in my ICU.

[gangzoom]

I was hoping never to have to think about COVID again - for a while at least...….There is some smoke starting to appear in the UK on Indian variant and effectiveness of 1st dosage vaccine from the front line.

I've had both Pfzier dosages, I wouldn't say no to having a dosage of both the AZ and Moderna ones now!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I was hoping never to have to think about COVID again - for a while at least...….There is some smoke starting to appear in the UK on Indian variant and effectiveness of 1st dosage vaccine from the front line.

I've had both Pfzier dosages, I wouldn't say no to having a dosage of both the AZ and Moderna ones now!

I'm sorry to say I've been expecting the current flare in Covid. (We've got hot spots up here as well). I do hope it is taken seriously by those who are thinking Covid is over and normality is now easy to achieve.

Been following some of the issues out in India and there appears to be some unusual consequences and medical conditions associated with the variant.

An example is Mucormycosis 'Black Fungus', appears to be following cases of Covid, gives a warning of awful consequences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57027829

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I was hoping never to have to think about COVID again - for a while at least...….There is some smoke starting to appear in the UK on Indian variant and effectiveness of 1st dosage vaccine from the front line.

I've had both Pfzier dosages, I wouldn't say no to having a dosage of both the AZ and Moderna ones now!

All are safe and the changes to vaccination strategies are working well. We have opened up for 12-15 and that is going well. Our 16-18 has been a real success. With clinical trials underway for 5-11, there is a viable path forward.

At present none of the vaccines have proven truly ineffective for any variant.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Bmwkurdos

if you read my previous comments infact the very first one says I do respect peoples choices about getting vaccinated but I all I can see people like yourself have no respect for others and trying to push the governments single narrative to our throats.
I can guarantee you, you won't be able to do that to me.

I think you're right not to get vaccinated. I don't believe there is a vaccine which will deal with your particular condition...

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm sorry to say I've been expecting the current flare in Covid. (We've got hot spots up here as well).

Lets all hope you are wrong!!

But given what happened last autumn, I'm not planning anything for the summer. All it'll take is the wrong mutation to allow enough vaccine avoidance and we are back to square one, the disease it self hasn't changed its still horrid .

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio to name a handful - wonder why we don't get those anymore?

It is interesting that you mention that.. I just did a local TV interview about how no one hears about those viruses because of vaccines. We certainly dont want to go back to when they were world wide dangerous viruses. Measles alone still causes roughly 100K fatalities a year in children in unvaccinated countries.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Lets all hope you are wrong!!.

I hope I'm wrong in expecting this flare, which I'm afraid is today gaining momentum on the news channels.

I wonder if we will get a good definition of what a "cautious hug" is, by Monday. So far I've not heard anyone give a definition, other than use your common sense. To me, this week's developments mean, (using common sense), "don't hug".