[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Rivian:

"hold my beer"

You won't be able to afford be as the Rivian R1T manages 48 kWh/100 miles, i.e 2.08 miles per KW whereas a recent EV with good aero and less weight more than 3

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

You won't be able to afford be as the Rivian R1T manages 48 kWh/100 miles, i.e 2.08 miles per KW whereas a recent EV with good aero and less weight more than 3

Not sure I can decipher that (I've waited years to say that to Simone else) but that was kind of my entire point.

Everyone has (probably rightly) mad their 'SUV' slippery as a wedge and with low ride height. The Rivian looks pretty old school SUV size and weight a capability. TBF cybertruck will be similar.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Richard Symons comparison of the Model 3 to the Model Y.

I've just had a look at the above video and it got me thinking back to the days when I used to work for a living and some of the daily commutes I used to do. In a Regional role I quite often did round trips of over 200 miles in a day and, while a chunk of the driving was on motorways and/or dual carriageways, the location of most of our operating sites meant a fair bit of the driving was also on give and take A-roads across to places like Cumbria or Northumberland (and even on occasion just over the border into Scotland which was a round trip of roughly 250 miles).

The range of the Model Y seemed to be around 250 miles although if I understood correctly that was based on only an 80% charge - no idea why you wouldn't charge to 100% but there's presumably a reason for that as 80% also seemed to be the target when they did the second charge! However, from what I could see the driving was pretty sedate and that got me wondering what more enthusiastic motoring would do to the range? For instance, what would it look like if you were doing high 70's/low 80's on the motorway (as opposed to 70) and making progress across quite hilly A-roads? Could be wrong but I'm guessing on some of the trips I used to do I'd be needing a top-up charge to be sure of getting home and that potentially wouldn't be very convenient given most of the operating sites were out in the sticks and probably nowhere near a fast charging point!

In truth an EV would probably work for me with my current mileage profile but, unless my old employer has installed charging points at their operating sites, I don't think I'd entertain one if I was still doing my old job. Ok, I admit to being a bit of a chicken with these things but there's no way I'd want to be out in the middle of nowhere and having to eek out battery life to get to a charging point!

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I've just had a look at the above video and it got me thinking back to the days when I used to work for a living and some of the daily commutes I used to do. In a Regional role I quite often did round trips of over 200 miles in a day and, while a chunk of the driving was on motorways and/or dual carriageways, the location of most of our operating sites meant a fair bit of the driving was also on give and take A-roads across to places like Cumbria or Northumberland (and even on occasion just over the border into Scotland which was a round trip of roughly 250 miles).

The range of the Model Y seemed to be around 250 miles although if I understood correctly that was based on only an 80% charge - no idea why you wouldn't charge to 100% but there's presumably a reason for that as 80% also seemed to be the target when they did the second charge! However, from what I could see the driving was pretty sedate and that got me wondering what more enthusiastic motoring would do to the range? For instance, what would it look like if you were doing high 70's/low 80's on the motorway (as opposed to 70) and making progress across quite hilly A-roads? Could be wrong but I'm guessing on some of the trips I used to do I'd be needing a top-up charge to be sure of getting home and that potentially wouldn't be very convenient given most of the operating sites were out in the sticks and probably nowhere near a fast charging point!

In truth an EV would probably work for me with my current mileage profile but, unless my old employer has installed charging points at their operating sites, I don't think I'd entertain one if I was still doing my old job. Ok, I admit to being a bit of a chicken with these things but there's no way I'd want to be out in the middle of nowhere and having to eek out battery life to get to a charging point!

The 80% charge figure is regularly used as you can charge an EV quite rapidly to that point, but then charge slower to full

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The range of the Model Y seemed to be around 250 miles although if I understood correctly that was based on only an 80% charge - no idea why you wouldn't charge to 100% but there's presumably a reason for that as 80% also seemed to be the target when they did the second charge!

With ev's inc Teslas, the charging rate falls off substantially for the last 20%. so in practice the usable range away from home is say 10 to 80%, giving a realistic range of 70% of those quoted. I am assuming 10% is a sensible margin for events beyond drivers control like chargers out of order or police closing roads etc

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I've just had a look at the above video and it got me thinking back to the days when I used to work for a living and some of the daily commutes I used to do. In a Regional role I quite often did round trips of over 200 miles in a day and, while a chunk of the driving was on motorways and/or dual carriageways, the location of most of our operating sites meant a fair bit of the driving was also on give and take A-roads across to places like Cumbria or Northumberland (and even on occasion just over the border into Scotland which was a round trip of roughly 250 miles).

The range of the Model Y seemed to be around 250 miles although if I understood correctly that was based on only an 80% charge - no idea why you wouldn't charge to 100% but there's presumably a reason for that as 80% also seemed to be the target when they did the second charge! However, from what I could see the driving was pretty sedate and that got me wondering what more enthusiastic motoring would do to the range? For instance, what would it look like if you were doing high 70's/low 80's on the motorway (as opposed to 70) and making progress across quite hilly A-roads? Could be wrong but I'm guessing on some of the trips I used to do I'd be needing a top-up charge to be sure of getting home and that potentially wouldn't be very convenient given most of the operating sites were out in the sticks and probably nowhere near a fast charging point!

In truth an EV would probably work for me with my current mileage profile but, unless my old employer has installed charging points at their operating sites, I don't think I'd entertain one if I was still doing my old job. Ok, I admit to being a bit of a chicken with these things but there's no way I'd want to be out in the middle of nowhere and having to eek out battery life to get to a charging point!

You might for a 0% BIK versus a fairly horrendous value for a standard diesel or petrol these days. A few hundred quid a month in your pocket makes those short interludes on the way home much more bearable....

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

A lot of good mentions for the EV6 and Ioniq5 here, on looks I;d have the hyundai but there a lot more to it all than that. Car Mag this week on

T M3 LR for 'just' another £1500 this car is 0-60 3.7s
Ioniq5
Polestar 2
Audi eQ4

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...tesla-model-3/

so the tesla was the fastest, most efficient and best to drive. Still some catching up to do for the others then....

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

You might for a 0% BIK versus a fairly horrendous value for a standard diesel or petrol these days. A few hundred quid a month in your pocket makes those short interludes on the way home much more bearable....

EV's are certainly more tax efficient as company cars at the moment but who knows how long that will last?

I'm not sure a few quid in my pocket would be enough to overcome my range anxiety if I was regularly doing over 200 miles a day but in reality it's hypothetical as I don't ever see me being in that situation again. But I don't see me moving to an EV unless and until the charging network is much better than it is at the moment - in the meantime I'm more than happy to stick with my ICE car!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The 80% charge figure is regularly used as you can charge an EV quite rapidly to that point, but then charge slower to full

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

With ev's inc Teslas, the charging rate falls off substantially for the last 20%. so in practice the usable range away from home is say 10 to 80%, giving a realistic range of 70% of those quoted. I am assuming 10% is a sensible margin for events beyond drivers control like chargers out of order or police closing roads etc

So when manufacturers quote ranges based on a 100% charge is that ever so slightly misleading in the sense getting to that 100% isn't always going to be practical?

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by JNW1

So when manufacturers quote ranges based on a 100% charge is that ever so slightly misleading in the sense getting to that 100% isn't always going to be practical?

Generally it seems it's 'good' for the batteries to charge from sat 20-80% on daily/weekly basis.

If I had a trip to Edinburgh and back on the cards you would charge to 100% before leaving. (It would help to have a ca that's capable of 350+ miles out the box).

You would use the Invar say nav and it would suggest which services aka Superchargers to stop at for 20/30minutes to top up at a considerable range per minute.

No this is not technically as quick as a petrol fill up, but once at that speed of charge it doesn't need to be. Everyone should be ok with that stop on the way to Edinburgh from say North Wales.

Golf course exactly what you describe is range anxiety. How often will you travel that far, Joe likely you are to fail at the charge point and how quickly the car charges are all factors to mitigate that.

If you have 10 minutes it could be worth watching some people's trips form Manchester to Cornwall and back etc for a holiday. (Not quite as dull as it sounds).

It's not 100 convenient IMO yet.
It's not terrifying anymore though.
Only the Tesla supercharge network makes this possible.
Every other network seems a huge risk if the chargers will work or be busy.

This if ever, or once l, you are onboard with one of the Tesla designs, it finally ca n feasible.

I love a lot of other EVs, especially the EV6 and ioniq5 and maybe the M50i but they are only good for near home. Not a work car option for me as their network is so completely random as per any Shme150 video.

Finally some batteries are ok with charging all the way to 100% with I think iron on them replacing much of the nickel, as per the revised Standard Range Model3 so…nothing is simple and it's best to research a lot more than an ICE car!

[davyk31]

Do you not think the Network of Tesla super chargers is going to get a lot busier given the number of Model 3 being sold. That could start to cause availability issues.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Do you not think the Network of Tesla super chargers is going to get a lot busier given the number of Model 3 being sold. That could start to cause availability issues.

Yup maybe. Maybe not.

Rarely full at the moment but it's always expanding too.

[gangzoom]

JustChris s It really sounds like you at a point where you just need to own an EV. It really isn't that scary or worrying, at the end of the day its just a car if you don't like it just chop it in. We are all use to changing out of cars we don't like .

[Cilonen]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Do you not think the Network of Tesla super chargers is going to get a lot busier given the number of Model 3 being sold. That could start to cause availability issues.

Another Tesla advantage - the inbuilt Nav can tell you how many bays are available at each Supercharger location, and give you the option of navigating to a different one (if within range) Even if they fill up just as you arrive you'll be unlikely to wait long for a bay given how fast Tesla's can charge.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Cilonen

Another Tesla advantage - the inbuilt Nav can tell you how many bays are available at each Supercharger location, and give you the option of navigating to a different one (if within range) Even if they fill up just as you arrive you'll be unlikely to wait long for a bay given how fast Tesla's can charge.

That's a brilliant feature.

[davyk31]

There are apps that do the same for regular chargers as well. You can tell how many bays are occupied and when someone started to charge to give some gauge on when they may come free.

[Blacktemplar]

Went to the EV6 launch this evening and have to say I was very impressed. It’s a LOT bigger than it looks in pictures, almost the same footprint as an X3 but because it’s lower and quite muscular looking it carries its size well. I particularly liked the clamshell bonnet that makes it look like it's sneering/snarling from the side, and the rear haunches add a real air of purpose.

The matte grey is lovely looking - in a showroom - but I think it would be a nightmare to keep looking as good in a Scottish winter.

Interior was very well put together, quality as good as BMW or MB if a few steps behind Audi. Stepping into the X3 afterwards briefly felt like going back a few generations in terms of tech. The EV6 is very Enterprise-esque and feels more grown up than the slightly cartoonish Ioniq 5. There are a few areas of the lower plastics that feel a bit cheap but otherwise not a bad effort.

Driving position was good for me at 5’ 9” with tons of room behind. Only niggle there is with the front seats at their lowest height, there is literally no room for back seat passengers feet under the front seats. The other thing the EV lacks and the Ioniq has, is the ability to slide the back seats forwards to increase load space. Handy if you're carrying small children or Douglas Bader....

Rear is slightly claustrophobic with the dark interior and privacy glass, but I believe the higher spec UK models will get a sunroof as standard so that might help.

Compared to the X3 the boot space is a lot smaller. The way the rear 3/4 curves round looks good, but it makes the hatch entry a bit narrow and with the raised floor height at the back it’s not that roomy. That said with the seats down it’s every bit as long as the X3 if not as high overall. Not a deal breaker for me as I could count on one hand the number of times we’ve needed the full capacity of the BMW. The only niggle there would be the inability to use the tailgate as a perch after a swim. The other thing I noticed is that the lovely swoopy rear light cluster leaves a rather pointy bit of the assembly very exposed at the tailgate entry when it's open - you'd need to be careful loading bulkier or hard objects as I can see it getting clipped & damaged really easily.

The tailgate has no wiper, but has slots in the spoiler presumably to use airflow to clear the rear screen. Not sure if that will be effective enough in winter.

All in all a pretty impressive package, Kia have certainly shown the big boys they’re willing to push up into the premium sector.

I’ve got a test drive booked in the next few weeks so will let you know what it feels like on the road. Aiming to get myself into the quickest AWD version if it’s available to drive.

[JustChris]

That EV6 looks fantastic in that colour.

[Watsey]

If I was in the market right now for our next family car, and pure EV, the EV6 is pretty much the only car I'd consider.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Really like the look of the EV6, and if it is X3 size it looks good value, even in the top spec shown it's still around £7K less than the base iX3 which has less power and only 2WD.

It's maybe about 10-15cm narrower inside than the X3, plus the lower driving position and raked roofline makes the volume feel a fair bit smaller. In back of the X3 I can get 2 bulky kid's car seats and a thin wife in the middle perch - no way I could do that with the EV6. Length-wise from the tailgate lip to the back of the front seats it looks on a par with the X3, though again the sloping rear limits volume overall.

The back seats feel a bit claustrophobic by comparison, largely due to the rising window line and very chunky C-pillar. Rear view is not good to be honest, and you'll need all the camera/parking tech in that regard to avoid bumps.

RRP on the iX3 MSport Pro is a fairly hefty £63K, and as you say it's 2WD. The EV-6 in GT-Line S AWD guise is under £53K with the matte paint job, and has all the tech (and more) that the X3 has, is much quicker than the X3, charges more rapidly, has a 7-year warranty and looks a lot better IMO.

Where I think Kia will struggle a little may be with their financing. At the moment, the longest PCP term is 3 years, and with no dealer support at this stage monthlies are pretty hefty for the top-end models. Hyundai by contrast offer 4-year PCP's which will make the monthlies (if not the whole-life cost) more attractive to many.

[Bryans69]

Finally watched the carwow video of this. Thought it looked OK, although still not convinced about the back / roofline. However, I was less impressed with read seat and boot space, especially given the size of the car.

Looks like the IONIQ is more practical, although not a fan of the interior

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

It's maybe about 10-15cm narrower inside than the X3, plus the lower driving position and raked roofline makes the volume feel a fair bit smaller. In back of the X3 I can get 2 bulky kid's car seats and a thin wife in the middle perch - no way I could do that with the EV6. Length-wise from the tailgate lip to the back of the front seats it looks on a par with the X3, though again the sloping rear limits volume overall.

The back seats feel a bit claustrophobic by comparison, largely due to the rising window line and very chunky C-pillar. Rear view is not good to be honest, and you'll need all the camera/parking tech in that regard to avoid bumps.

RRP on the iX3 MSport Pro is a fairly hefty £63K, and as you say it's 2WD. The EV-6 in GT-Line S AWD guise is under £53K with the matte paint job, and has all the tech (and more) that the X3 has, is much quicker than the X3, charges more rapidly, has a 7-year warranty and looks a lot better IMO.

Where I think Kia will struggle a little may be with their financing. At the moment, the longest PCP term is 3 years, and with no dealer support at this stage monthlies are pretty hefty for the top-end models. Hyundai by contrast offer 4-year PCP's which will make the monthlies (if not the whole-life cost) more attractive to many.

I'm looking forward to seeing it the flesh when my local dealers event happens in October. He did say if the demo version comes in earlier I can take it for a test drive as well. My only worry is that it's not going to be big enough, however any EV that is currently comparable to the 5 series touring is nearer or over £100k when you spec it up. So I could get a Kia EV6 GT when it's released and maybe an older LR Defender for camping and lugging lots of stuff duty and still not hit anywhere near 100k. I do like the kia configuration page - model - colour - done. Much better than adding 25k of extras to your build.