[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Actually Audi wasn't the only manufacturer to have problems; apparently 17% of Tesla Model S owners also needed a battery replacement while for the Model X the figure was 37% - presumably gangzoom's one of the 63% who've been ok!

Where did these random numbers come from? The S has been sale in the US since 2013, loads of them are out of the battery warranty, the noise on battery replacments on the Tesla forum is pretty low level.

The X has on sale since 2016, it's only this year the earliest cars are out of battery warranty, so unless that data is from Tesla direct regarding warranty replacements those numbers are as reliable as what ever our latest PM says .

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Where did these random numbers come from? The S has been sale in the US since 2013, loads of them are out of the battery warranty, the noise on battery replacments on the Tesla forum is pretty low level.

The X has on sale since 2016, it's only this year the earliest cars are out of battery warranty, so unless that data is from Tesla direct regarding warranty replacements those numbers are as reliable as what ever our latest PM says .

Yep I agree. Wherever that number came from sounds like BS!

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by D69GMB

Thanks very much for the insight. It all makes perfect sense and I honestly love the X3 M40d, we are on our second one now but my wife’s work has started a salary sacrifice scheme and are offering the X5 50d for £700 a month with no deposit,insurance,tyres or maintenance to pay for. We can cancel up to just before delivery for a small fee and at that price I can’t even get close to a new 40d for that never mind paying for the insurance etc.

I’d take that deal (and possibly your wife too!)

My Forces 40i (I’m a twat for getting an i and not the d) was more than that with a deposit, just for the lease.

My employer has a SalSac but only for EVs, so I traded down for an iX3, which I will be glad to be rid of on 14 April 2026

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Yep I agree. Wherever that number came from sounds like BS!

The numbers come from owner's responses to the Which? reliability survey; therefore, if you believe them to be BS either you think the owners haven't responded honestly and/or Which? have misrepresented their responses. Neither of those things seems terribly likely to me so no, personally I don't think the figures are BS!

However, what I do think it's fair to ask is what were the sample sizes for the various vehicles? There were over 50k responses in total but I can't see where it breaks that down by individual vehicle so, if the samples for some were very small - quite possible for expensive cars like the Model S and Model X - you could argue quite fairly that the results aren't necessarily representative of the population as a whole. I will ask the question of Which? and report back if and when I get an answer!

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Where did these random numbers come from? The S has been sale in the US since 2013, loads of them are out of the battery warranty, the noise on battery replacments on the Tesla forum is pretty low level.

The X has on sale since 2016, it's only this year the earliest cars are out of battery warranty, so unless that data is from Tesla direct regarding warranty replacements those numbers are as reliable as what ever our latest PM says .

Originally Posted by E60525d

Yep I agree. Wherever that number came from sounds like BS!

Originally Posted by JNW1

The numbers come from owner's responses to the Which? reliability survey; therefore, if you believe them to be BS either you think the owners haven't responded honestly and/or Which? have misrepresented their responses. Neither of those things seems terribly likely to me so no, personally I don't think the figures are BS!

However, what I do think it's fair to ask is what were the sample sizes for the various vehicles? There were over 50k responses in total but I can't see where it breaks that down by individual vehicle so, if the samples for some were very small - quite possible for expensive cars like the Model S and Model X - you could argue quite fairly that the results aren't necessarily representative of the population as a whole. I will ask the question of Which? and report back if and when I get an answer!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The numbers come from owner's responses to the Which? reliability survey; therefore, if you believe them to be BS either you think the owners haven't responded honestly and/or Which? have misrepresented their responses. Neither of those things seems terribly likely to me so no, personally I don't think the figures are BS!

As I've said, the X is a newer car than the S, it's running the same battery tech as the S, so how can a newer car suffer more battery issues than an older car? Data is only as good as how it's presented and bias understood. The Which data you present seems to be the kind of data our government likes to use to make national decisions .

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

I’d take that deal (and possibly your wife too!)

My Forces 40i (I’m a twat for getting an i and not the d) was more than that with a deposit, just for the lease.

My employer has a SalSac but only for EVs, so I traded down for an iX3, which I will be glad to be rid of on 14 April 2026

Out of interest, why don't you like the iX3? Always seemed one of the more appealing EVs currently in sale.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

Out of interest, why don't you like the iX3? Always seemed one of the more appealing EVs currently in sale.

It had physical HVAC controls and I wanted a BMW but not the iX, which is why I chose it.

It’s lower than a standard X3 in terms of comfort as I think the ICE had better leather options and no air suspension.

It’s not a bad car in itself, but when you go from a specced X5 to that, it’s a very noticeable downgrade.

There also missing tech in the iX3 as well.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The numbers come from owner's responses to the Which? reliability survey; therefore, if you believe them to be BS either you think the owners haven't responded honestly and/or Which? have misrepresented their responses. Neither of those things seems terribly likely to me so no, personally I don't think the figures are BS!

However, what I do think it's fair to ask is what were the sample sizes for the various vehicles? There were over 50k responses in total but I can't see where it breaks that down by individual vehicle so, if the samples for some were very small - quite possible for expensive cars like the Model S and Model X - you could argue quite fairly that the results aren't necessarily representative of the population as a whole. I will ask the question of Which? and report back if and when I get an answer!

I was not doubting you, it was the source. So apologies if you felt that way.

If that 25% figure is correct, it would be 1000's of cars and the internet would be awash with with owners experiences. Actually it would be even higher as I would assume the Audi battery tech is common on VW group cars.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

:

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

As I've said, the X is a newer car than the S, it's running the same battery tech as the S, so how can a newer car suffer more battery issues than an older car? Data is only as good as how it's presented and bias understood. The Which data you present seems to be the kind of data our government likes to use to make national decisions .

I'm not privy to the underlying data so can't comment on the apparent anomaly between the Model S and the Model X.

As I say, I do think there's a legitimate question to answer on sample size - and how representative the figures might be of the population as a whole - but I've no reason to think an organisation like Which? are deliberately trying to present figures that are either false or misleading. Maybe that's your own bias coming into play?!

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I'm not privy to the underlying data so can't comment on the apparent anomaly between the Model S and the Model X.

As I say, I do think there's a legitimate question to answer on sample size - and how representative the figures might be of the population as a whole - but I've no reason to think an organisation like Which? are deliberately trying to present figures that are either false or misleading. Maybe that's your own bias coming into play?!

Speaking of Which?, article here saying battery degradation is not really on issue on recent newer EV's https://www.which.co.uk/news/article...n-apYqu1y6IYnr

No mention of battery replacements!

[six]

I'm a few months into 50e ownership and I'm delighted with it. Previously I've had 3 X5's, a 30d then 40d on to petrol with a 40i and now the 50e. Didn't set out to get a PHEV but BMW UK don't offer a non-M60i petrol variant.

The purchase price is mental these days (as is the insurance), I spent just shy of £100K on it which I think is horrendous. But I buy one car that does it all so it needs to be fast and fun to drive when I'm on my own but super comfortable and safe on family trips and I need to tow. I could have two cars to meet the different needs but actually the X5 does a brilliant job at being in the middle and bringing it all together in one.

Surprisingly to me the 50e is absolutely able to hold it's own in elec only mode, I'm still the fastest thing on the road and it's pretty much like having a normal EV (but it is less efficient by comparison). I tend to get 45 ish miles driven this way. Then in Hybrid you have great range and I find the torque and delivery more than adequate. In sport it is absolutely crazy but there isn't a place for people driving that way on UK roads. However, in sport it's a monster towing, hands down better than any of my previous diesel X5's. The way the elec motor feeds it's torque into the transmission to compliment the in line 6 is genius. Also you get the full benefit of 4x4 traction and even gearing when the elec motor is supporting.

I was concerned about getting a PHEV but have no complaints now I have one

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by six

I'm a few months into 50e ownership and I'm delighted with it. Previously I've had 3 X5's, a 30d then 40d on to petrol with a 40i and now the 50e. Didn't set out to get a PHEV but BMW UK don't offer a non-M60i petrol variant.

The purchase price is mental these days (as is the insurance), I spent just shy of £100K on it which I think is horrendous. But I buy one car that does it all so it needs to be fast and fun to drive when I'm on my own but super comfortable and safe on family trips and I need to tow. I could have two cars to meet the different needs but actually the X5 does a brilliant job at being in the middle and bringing it all together in one.

Surprisingly to me the 50e is absolutely able to hold it's own in elec only mode, I'm still the fastest thing on the road and it's pretty much like having a normal EV (but it is less efficient by comparison). I tend to get 45 ish miles driven this way. Then in Hybrid you have great range and I find the torque and delivery more than adequate. In sport it is absolutely crazy but there isn't a place for people driving that way on UK roads. However, in sport it's a monster towing, hands down better than any of my previous diesel X5's. The way the elec motor feeds it's torque into the transmission to compliment the in line 6 is genius. Also you get the full benefit of 4x4 traction and even gearing when the elec motor is supporting.

I was concerned about getting a PHEV but have no complaints now I have one

Sounds very positive. I presume your previous X5 were G05 too? If so, how do you find the newer idrive and no HVAC physical buttons compared to the pre facelift?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Speaking of Which?, article here saying battery degradation is not really on issue on recent newer EV's https://www.which.co.uk/news/article...n-apYqu1y6IYnr

No mention of battery replacements!

That looks to be based on their 2022 survey? The figures I quoted are from their 2023 equivalent which (presumably) has more up to date information for EV's.

[six]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Sounds very positive. I presume your previous X5 were G05 too? If so, how do you find the newer idrive and no HVAC physical buttons compared to the pre facelift?

F15 and G05’s. TBH hated the idea of no buttons. I get on with it perfectly fine though. Given the choice I’d have the climate and seat heating/cooling buttons back. I also think the loss of the buttons and layers and textures in the LCI doesn’t make the cabin feel special at all. The GLE is much better in this regard but overall I still prefer the X5.

Love ID 8.5, it’s moved on a long way in my opinion. Even simple things like watching YouTube on it full screen is brilliant, perfect if stuck waiting in the car for some reason… Again BMW have gone with a very simple approach compared to others, there is a lack of user customisation available which is a shame.

[Sennen]

The bottom line is are we going to trust 'Which' who have a reputation going back decades of providing accurate consumer feedback or a few posters on here who have realised they have bought a 'Pup' but will continue to defend there poor decision despite the mounting evidence.

Go figure

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by six

F15 and G05’s. TBH hated the idea of no buttons. I get on with it perfectly fine though. Given the choice I’d have the climate and seat heating/cooling buttons back. I also think the loss of the buttons and layers and textures in the LCI doesn’t make the cabin feel special at all. The GLE is much better in this regard but overall I still prefer the X5.

Love ID 8.5, it’s moved on a long way in my opinion. Even simple things like watching YouTube on it full screen is brilliant, perfect if stuck waiting in the car for some reason… Again BMW have gone with a very simple approach compared to others, there is a lack of user customisation available which is a shame.

Thanks

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by Sennen

The bottom line is are we going to trust 'Which' who have a reputation going back decades of providing accurate consumer feedback or a few posters on here who have realised they have bought a 'Pup' but will continue to defend there poor decision despite the mounting evidence.

Go figure

Where is this 'Which' article?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Where is this 'Which' article?

I've read it as part of their 2024 Car Guide (which as a subscriber I received as a hard copy in the post). I've had a quick look on their website but can't immediately see the relevant article online on there; however, I'll have another look later and post it up if I can find it!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Sennen

The bottom line is are we going to trust 'Which' who have a reputation going back decades of providing accurate consumer feedback or a few posters on here who have realised they have bought a 'Pup' but will continue to defend there poor decision despite the mounting evidence.

Go figure

So you believe upto 37% of cars Tesla build have battery problems in less than 6 years ?

[D69GMB]

Originally Posted by six

I'm a few months into 50e ownership and I'm delighted with it. Previously I've had 3 X5's, a 30d then 40d on to petrol with a 40i and now the 50e. Didn't set out to get a PHEV but BMW UK don't offer a non-M60i petrol variant.

The purchase price is mental these days (as is the insurance), I spent just shy of £100K on it which I think is horrendous. But I buy one car that does it all so it needs to be fast and fun to drive when I'm on my own but super comfortable and safe on family trips and I need to tow. I could have two cars to meet the different needs but actually the X5 does a brilliant job at being in the middle and bringing it all together in one.

Surprisingly to me the 50e is absolutely able to hold it's own in elec only mode, I'm still the fastest thing on the road and it's pretty much like having a normal EV (but it is less efficient by comparison). I tend to get 45 ish miles driven this way. Then in Hybrid you have great range and I find the torque and delivery more than adequate. In sport it is absolutely crazy but there isn't a place for people driving that way on UK roads. However, in sport it's a monster towing, hands down better than any of my previous diesel X5's. The way the elec motor feeds it's torque into the transmission to compliment the in line 6 is genius. Also you get the full benefit of 4x4 traction and even gearing when the elec motor is supporting.

I was concerned about getting a PHEV but have no complaints now I have one

That is a great write up. The spec of your car looks identical to what I have ordered.
The only part of the car I am not keen on is the lack of buttons but hopefully I will get used to this and it won’t annoy me too much. Looking forward to getting delivery but this has slipped from an estimated April to the end of May unfortunately.