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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Timing corrections 435i bm3 stage 2 91
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      10-21-2020, 03:47 AM   #1
lucasborka
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Hi, wonder if someone could look into my logs. The timing is not stable, new coils and ngk 95770 gapped to 0.6mm.

Slight hesitation at high rpms..

Bmw 435i 2015 ewg with 11200miles

Vrsf catless dp
Vrsf 5" hd Intercooler
Latest bm3 91 octane map

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f81...90c66c1601b315

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f81...90c66b7ec5f86b
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      10-21-2020, 02:42 PM   #2
thejeremyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasborka View Post
Hi, wonder if someone could look into my logs. The timing is not stable, new coils and ngk 95770 gapped to 0.6mm.

Slight hesitation at high rpms..

Bmw 435i 2015 ewg with 11200miles

Vrsf catless dp
Vrsf 5" hd Intercooler
Latest bm3 91 octane map

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f81...90c66c1601b315

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f81...90c66b7ec5f86b
Yeah, the timing isnt great, especially given that IATs are low and the timing targets are already quite conservative. Not sure what you mean by slight hesitation because timing isnt THAT bad to where i think you could feel it in the car. You also have 2 knocks in one log and one in the other log. It's most likely fuel quality. What fuel are you running?

Aside from that, boost control, fuel trims, etc, all look good. You do have a throttle closure in one log but not the other so it could have been a fluke.
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      10-21-2020, 03:08 PM   #3
lucasborka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post

Yeah, the timing isnt great, especially given that IATs are low and the timing targets are already quite conservative. Not sure what you mean by slight hesitation because timing isnt THAT bad to where i think you could feel it in the car. You also have 2 knocks in one log and one in the other log. It's most likely fuel quality. What fuel are you running?

Aside from that, boost control, fuel trims, etc, all look good. You do have a throttle closure in one log but not the other so it could have been a fluke.
When the rpms are in the high range it feels like the engine is holding itself back, could feel minimal powerloss and slight jerk. Only if you really feel after it.

I run 91 octane fuel with 5% in it

I have tried different fuel stations but all are the same. When i put stock tune in the timings har 100% even. Here is a pull on stage 1 93 ron to compare with

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f22...0b4326f0572a0f
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      10-21-2020, 03:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasborka View Post
When the rpms are in the high range it feels like the engine is holding itself back, could feel minimal powerloss and slight jerk. Only if you really feel after it.

I run 91 octane fuel with 5% in it

I have tried different fuel stations but all are the same. When i put stock tune in the timings har 100% even. Here is a pull on stage 1 93 ron to compare with

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f22...0b4326f0572a0f
Well yeah, power loss up top can be due to timing being pulled, and it's always just the nature of the stock turbo to a certain extent.

There's plenty of people here that have trouble getting clean/even timing on the 91 map even running 93 octane pump gas. The pursuit of perfect timing will only drive you crazy; don't expect to have 100% even timing across all cylinders unless you are running fuel with significantly higher octane than the tune you are running (or have WMI, etc). The fact that you have even timing on the stock map is likely just because its running much less boost. It doesn't mean there's a problem with the stage 1 map causing the timing to be like that, its likely just that your fuel quality cant support the boost and timing targets of the stage 1 map. If you email PTF support, they will probably tell you to run the ACN map.

I'm not sure what else you are looking for here. I don't see anything else in the logs that you suggest an underlying issue with the tune or car. You can always email PTF to confirm.
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      10-21-2020, 03:33 PM   #5
lucasborka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasborka View Post
When the rpms are in the high range it feels like the engine is holding itself back, could feel minimal powerloss and slight jerk. Only if you really feel after it.

I run 91 octane fuel with 5% in it

I have tried different fuel stations but all are the same. When i put stock tune in the timings har 100% even. Here is a pull on stage 1 93 ron to compare with

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f22...0b4326f0572a0f
Well yeah, power loss up top can be due to timing being pulled, and it's always just the nature of the stock turbo to a certain extent.

There's plenty of people here that have trouble getting clean/even timing on the 91 map even running 93 octane pump gas. The pursuit of perfect timing will only drive you crazy; don't expect to have 100% even timing across all cylinders unless you are running fuel with significantly higher octane than the tune you are running (or have WMI, etc). The fact that you have even timing on the stock map is likely just because its running much less boost. It doesn't mean there's a problem with the stage 1 map causing the timing to be like that, its likely just that your fuel quality cant support the boost and timing targets of the stage 1 map. If you email PTF support, they will probably tell you to run the ACN map.

I'm not sure what else you are looking for here. I don't see anything else in the logs that you suggest an underlying issue with the tune or car. You can always email PTF to confirm.
Thank you for the awesome answers!

I just tought is was more serious problem with all the timing corrections when I have changed the plugs and coils.

Can I increase the octane a bit with 1-2litres of E85 to see if the timings Will be better?
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      10-21-2020, 03:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasborka View Post
Thank you for the awesome answers!

I just tought is was more serious problem with all the timing corrections when I have changed the plugs and coils.

Can I increase the octane a bit with 1-2litres of E85 to see if the timings Will be better?
Its really only serious if you corrections to the point of negative timing on cylinders (or near zero) all the time. Some amount of corrections is normal. Also, those plugs with smaller gap do not necessarily even improve timing, especially on just a stage 1 tune. Plenty of people, myself included, run OEM plugs with OEM gap. But i wouldn't necessarily go changing the plugs back to OEM just to try to get better timing in your situation, unless you wanted to DIY it just for the experiment, since its probably fuel quality.

Yes, adding some E85 is common to improve octane and timing. 1-2L is basically negligible when added to a full tank of gas... you will need more like 1-2 gallons to probably make any difference at all. If you are unsure about your ethanol content, i suggest getting a kit like the link below or equivalent to test both your pump gas and E85 for E% to take some guesswork out. Otherwise, just add 2 gallons, fill the rest with pump gas, log again, and watch your timing and fuel trims.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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      10-21-2020, 04:07 PM   #7
lucasborka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasborka View Post
Thank you for the awesome answers!

I just tought is was more serious problem with all the timing corrections when I have changed the plugs and coils.

Can I increase the octane a bit with 1-2litres of E85 to see if the timings Will be better?
Its really only serious if you corrections to the point of negative timing on cylinders (or near zero) all the time. Some amount of corrections is normal. Also, those plugs with smaller gap do not necessarily even improve timing, especially on just a stage 1 tune. Plenty of people, myself included, run OEM plugs with OEM gap. But i wouldn't necessarily go changing the plugs back to OEM just to try to get better timing in your situation, unless you wanted to DIY it just for the experiment, since its probably fuel quality.

Yes, adding some E85 is common to improve octane and timing. 1-2L is basically negligible when added to a full tank of gas... you will need more like 1-2 gallons to probably make any difference at all. If you are unsure about your ethanol content, i suggest getting a kit like the link below or equivalent to test both your pump gas and E85 for E% to take some guesswork out. Otherwise, just add 2 gallons, fill the rest with pump gas, log again, and watch your timing and fuel trims.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UTF8&psc=1
I think I Will test oem plugs when it is time to change, the stock will probably be fine on samt current stage 2 also😁

I will definitely invest in a E85 tester kit since I am interested in bm3 e30 map
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