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      08-31-2018, 04:32 AM   #67
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The legal forum on pistonheads has some tame lawyers, might be worth a look

All the best
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      08-31-2018, 04:42 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
This is good news, in that it supports your case for rejecting the car.

In your shoes I'd still want to have an independent vehicle inspection carried out to identify whether the DPF has been modified or removed; basically to find the root cause of the problem. If it's the case that the dealer has sold an illegal vehicle and with a dodgy MOT, I'd inform Trading Standards and the DVSA.
This^

I would get it inspected now it's failed an emissions test to see if the DPF is modified/removed etc. If it is reject it before the 30 days is up.
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      08-31-2018, 04:44 AM   #69
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Come on name and shame them OP get on to the finance company and tell them the car isn't fit for purpose or road legal and they asset they have funded isn't as described.
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      08-31-2018, 04:47 AM   #70
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Any garage worth their salt would be able to tell if your DPF is hollowed in minutes.

Pulling one of the sensor pipes from under the car and throwing in a scope or heck, even a fine screwdriver

That is a priority now as that is a key part to your legal stance

Do it today!

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      08-31-2018, 05:10 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0nn0r91 View Post
I have informed the dealer along with a copy of the emissions printout, told them I'll be informing the finance company which I will do this morning.

Dealer got back to me saying if the car has an issue it needs to be repaired. And asked whether my garage had diagnosed the cause. And that there is a warranty for this.
he is kinda right. 1 you have a warranty to fix things that go wrong and 2 you still dont know what is wrong. all you know is that it failed emissions. you need to get it diagnosed.

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Originally Posted by jinjur View Post
This is not about repair buddy............the car was sold to you in a bad state without your knowledge

DPF gutted and MOT doctored...............just makes me think what else is a bodge on the car to get it sold?

It's not a Ford, it's a BMW and all repairs are frighteningly expensive. I would be erring on the side of caution friend and return the car

Flip, there will be (are already) LOADS of 335d's appearing because of the new model coming out

Trust us

Plenty here have seen pain with a lemon or abused car, it is NOT fun.

J
dealer might not of known of this stuff being done. lets be honest i bet they dont know the ins and outs of every car on the forecourt.

also just because its had a DPF gut doesnt make it a lemon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by C0nn0r91 View Post
Dealer has now phoned up the mot station I had it tested by and said its not a huge difference in the values, and that my mot tester apparently said it likely only needs a dpf regeneration which is normal for these. So me sitting at 3000 rpm on a motorway for 25 miles probably wasn't enough I guess?
tbh without it being on a diagnostic machine you arent going to know anything about a regen. the DPF could be full and no amount of Regen will fix it.

as been mentioned. get the garage to drop the sensor and inspect the DPF. if its been gutted you have 2 options

1) go back to the dealer explain that you are rejecting the car as it was explained that it was DPF deleted with means the car is not road worthy and that it would of had a Remap applied to code out the DPF.

or

2) if you really like the car. get them to supply and a new DPF (Expensive and wont be covered by your warranty) and then they will need to flash the car back to stock.

again i will say it again just because it has a DPF delete and Map doesnt make it a lemon but at the end of the day its what you want. either way if it was me that dealer needs to replace DPF and remap the car again
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      08-31-2018, 05:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smee View Post
stuff
I didn't implicitly say his car was a lemon btw

My biggest point is the dealers magic soot test that was fine. When it obviously isn't

And if it is as bad as the OP says re:smoke output.........the dealer knows. Of course they do. It would be naive to think not.

This is all just IMO op but i think a fair few of us are getting a bad feeling from this, that is what we are getting at.
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      08-31-2018, 06:00 AM   #73
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I wouldn't want to touch that car with a bargepole.

Dealer is being a cock.

You have rights, reject it, stuff the crappy warranty these places put on cars.
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      08-31-2018, 06:18 AM   #74
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No warranty covers pre-existing faults, even less so removed components

Get it rejected today.

You will have a world of pain with this car, get out while you can and buy a decent unmolested example, as has already been said, there are plenty out there
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      08-31-2018, 06:21 AM   #75
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Yep ^

And we know rejecting it will be super duper sucky..........especially if you really love the car and it's spec

But that love will soon fade if (perhaps, when) other issues arise
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      08-31-2018, 06:55 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0nn0r91 View Post
Dealer has now phoned up the mot station I had it tested by and said its not a huge difference in the values, and that my mot tester apparently said it likely only needs a dpf regeneration which is normal for these. So me sitting at 3000 rpm on a motorway for 25 miles probably wasn't enough I guess?
That is either nonsense or worrying (and I think most of us would vote for the former)! If the emissions test failed coupled with visible smoke it is a major fail and makes the car unroadworthy. Surely the DPF regen will have triggered long before it got to that stage - in effect if the dealer is to be trusted () he is saying that when we all take our cars in for MOTs now we are in the lap of the gods as to whether they will pass or fail based on how long ago a regen happened - I suspect BMW might have view on that but I would hope you get this sorted without having to bring them in to help.

To be fair to the dealer he can't necessarily have known that he was sold a dodgy car and strictly he should be given one chance to fix it... Though given the cost which I assume would be over £1000 I would think he'd be better to take it back and see if can find someone else to sell it to who doesn't know of this forum if he is as dodgy as he is sounding...

Really hope you do get to a speedy resolution - I would think once he realises that you aren't going to let the matter drop he'll cut his losses and take the car back... Return it to him now with the full support of the finance company - why should you be running around trying to diagnose the fault - that's his problem... Also list off all the other issues so he knows he's got a mountain to climb to keep you happy - should help him to make his mind up to accept your rejection...
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      08-31-2018, 09:15 AM   #77
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OP, it's beyond any reasonable doubt that the car isn't as described and the MOT results by the dealer don't match the same emissions test carried out a few weeks later.

The one thing I would say about this forum is that it has a wealth of knowledge and experience with BMW; technical, legal and commercial. You need to listen to the guys on here mate and reject the car.
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      08-31-2018, 10:46 AM   #78
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so whats the latest i am intrigued and want to see how this pans out!! updates updates and more updates
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      08-31-2018, 10:52 AM   #79
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Would it be worth recording conversations with the dealer or does that start to get a bit sketchy?
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      08-31-2018, 11:31 AM   #80
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You need to get ista connected up, it'll tell you when it last regenerated it should be every 300-600 miles, if it's more than this either it's been coded out or egt sensors or pressure are knackered causing it to be smoke hence clogged dpf, black smoke and no regens as ecu will not initiate a regen.
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      08-31-2018, 04:03 PM   #81
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Thanks everyone for the responses!


So the latest is, that messages have been exchanged with the dealer. I mentioned that the difference in emission values from the test he had done to what I had done was a 365% increase so it was a huge difference.
I have the car booked in with an ex bmw service engineer on the 5th and he's fitted many acs springs to 335d xdrives. He knew exactly what I was talking about in regards to possibly having a remap and or dpf internals removed. He also said he can check the pressures of the dpf via diagnostics using a laptop and determine whether the dpf internals have been removed and whether the coding has been altered to stop the engine light coming on etc. So no removing of the sensor for a borescope is necessary, which is good.
Plus he could look at the car quicker than my local bmw dealer so I was pleased about that.

So I told the dealer that I'll let him know the outcome and if its bad then that will be the decider as to whether I reject the car since I'm well within my consumer rights to do so, especially if I've been sold an illegal car.

He just replied with please free to do the inspection and that he hasn't sold an illegal car.

I haven't responded to that since I'll see what happens on Wednesday.

The car is a really nice spec though but I don't know the history even though the dealer said he knows the car after selling it before.

I've informed the finance company of the fail and of the inspection on Wednesday. I said I'll keep them updated once I know the outcome. They just said thanks for letting them know and they'll do what they can to help.

I thought about recording conversations, but our exchanges have been via email today which is preferable to have them as proof.

The dealership is apex performance cars in Huddersfield. They also have a much larger site called shaks specialist cars.

Thanks,
Connor.
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      08-31-2018, 04:20 PM   #82
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Thanks for keeping us all updated.

My own opinion here is if it is just a blocked DPF that needs replacing and the dealer says he'll get a new DPF fitted if you really like the car give him 1 chance to get the car put right.

If as we suspect though it's been tampered with and mapped out I would just reject the car as sold not road legal.
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      08-31-2018, 04:20 PM   #83
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Connor, please tell us you'll do everything you can to reject this car.
An independent dealer in West Yorkshire is probably the worst place you could go to get an honest car.
Get a refund and maybe spend a little more at a BMW dealer and you'll be able to enjoy the proper experience that a BMW should bring
Don't be fobbed off. They haven't got a leg to stand on.
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      08-31-2018, 04:21 PM   #84
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Tbh if you like the car. Get the dpf put back in and remapped again safely.

The specialist will let you know if you bought a pup
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      08-31-2018, 05:29 PM   #85
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is this the car still being advertised on their site?
He's either still got it up to attract customers or re-advertised because he's expecting it to be returned.
Ready for the next unsuspecting customer.
They could genuinely have known nothing about it.... If it has had the dpf gutted that is.
I guess the inspection will give you the answers.
Lovely looking car with a great spec too!
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      08-31-2018, 06:20 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0nn0r91 View Post
Thanks everyone for the responses!

The dealership is apex performance cars in Huddersfield. They also have a much larger site called shaks specialist cars.

Thanks,
Connor.
They have got some great looking cars in there and the main site has even better ones. I feel sure that you will get sorted out and an amicable outcome, one way or another.
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      08-31-2018, 06:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo.G View Post
is this the car still being advertised on their site?
He's either still got it up to attract customers or re-advertised because he's expecting it to be returned.
Ready for the next unsuspecting customer.
They could genuinely have known nothing about it.... If it has had the dpf gutted that is.
I guess the inspection will give you the answers.
Lovely looking car with a great spec too!
Yes, that's the one. Didn't realise it was still up on their website, it's been removed from the other ad sites which I saw it on when I last checked.
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      08-31-2018, 10:08 PM   #88
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Please tell me it has service history?
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