[dakeak]

Originally Posted by ChuckP49

I consider myself a "spirited" driver and I have never had any problems with handling (wet and dry) on the A/S 3+. Driven many a canyon and mountain pass, I have had them on a track, at about 60%, and they handled just fine. I was in Sport+ mode, with the T/C off. They are definitely quieter and smoother, and handle the sharp bumps much better than the run-flats I took off.

Are the Super Sport/4S louder than the A/S 3+?

[JamesWWIII]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Michelin Pilot Super Sport

+1

[natesi]

I couldn't stand the rock-hard flats and the horrid tram-lining of the SSRs either -- so I decided to go with the Pirelli All Season Plus (an ultra high performance all-season). I haven't got them installed yet, but if anyone is interested I can keep you posted.

Here's a review (using BMWs too):

On previous cars I tried the DWS (before the DWS 06 was out) and the tire had so much sidewall flex I actually returned them. It was terrible. Maybe the "06" improved things though.

I also had the Pilot Sport A/S 3 (before the "plus" was available) and I just thought they were OK. Kinda loud and a wee bit harsh. But I guess it depends on what you're going for -- all tires have compromises. As I get older I don't hoon as much -- and put more emphasis on comfort. Plus I do a lot of freeway travel now so noise can be an issue.

I decided to go with the Pirelli All Season Plus this time because they rate exceptionally high in all categories except snow/ice -- particularly high ratings regarding sound and comfort. And turn-in is not supposed to be too twitchy or too latent -- middle of the road -- which I hope will suite me well. Also: I have dedicated tires for winter -- which happen to be Pirelli Sottozero 3 -- and I've been extremely happy with them.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by natesi

I couldn't stand the run flats and the horrid tram-lining of the SSRs either -- so I decided to go with the Pirelli All Season Plus (an ultra high performance all-season). I haven't got them installed yet, but if anyone is interested I can keep you posted.

Here's a review (using BMWs too):

On previous cars I tried the DWS (before the DWS 06 was out) and the tire had so much sidewall flex I actually returned them. It was terrible. Maybe the "06" improved things though.

I also had the Pilot Sport A/S 3 (before the "plus" was available) and I just thought they were OK. Kinda loud and a wee bit harsh. But I guess it depends on what you're going for -- all tires have compromises. As I get older I don't hoon as much -- and put more emphasis on comfort. Plus I do a lot of freeway travel now so noise can be an issue.

I decided to go with the Pirelli All Season Plus this time because they rate exceptionally high in all categories except snow/ice -- particularly high sound and comfort. And turn-in is not supposed to be too sharp or too latent -- middle of the road -- which I hope will suite me well. Also: I have dedicated tires for winter -- which happen to be Pirelli Sottozero 3 -- and I've been extremely happy with them.

I'd like to know how the Pirellis feel once you get rolling on them. That was one of the tires I was considering. I wound up going with Driveguards. Got a good deal at Costco on them and the service was exemplary. After 500 miles, the tires are certainly a step up from the ContiSportContact SSRs I had. Much quieter and the bumps aren't as harsh. Handling seems the same as does the gas mileage. I still get a little roar when cornering. I presume this is because when cornering you're using more of the outside tread and that's the section closest to the stiff sidewall of the RFTs. I'm going to try and go from 32psi to 35 all around and see how that affects things.

[natesi]

Sounds good -- will keep ya updated.

Yes -- I run 35 psi on my 17 inch wheels (which will be upgraded to 18-inch as soon as the new Pirellis come in) and 36 psi on my 18 inch wheels (my winter Pirellis). I'm convinced the higher pressure saved me from blowing out a sidewall when I bottomed-out my suspension in a pot-hole going 40mph.

BTW -- I always have a hard time finding a good set of used BMW wheels, especially near me, and especially in good shape. Even if I could, people want a freaking fortune for them. So I went with the Rial x10 -- which look factory. These are exceptionally strong as well (have a set for my winter tires) -- would highly recommend them for anyone that can't find a good pair of 18 inch OEM wheels to buy near them. They even cost less than a USED set of scraped-up BMW wheels. Here's a pic of them as my winter wheels.

[spiff56747]

Originally Posted by LMK5

I'd like to know how the Pirellis feel once you get rolling on them. That was one of the tires I was considering. I wound up going with Driveguards. Got a good deal at Costco on them and the service was exemplary. After 500 miles, the tires are certainly a step up from the ContiSportContact SSRs I had. Much quieter and the bumps aren't as harsh. Handling seems the same as does the gas mileage. I still get a little roar when cornering. I presume this is because when cornering you're using more of the outside tread and that's the section closest to the stiff sidewall of the RFTs. I'm going to try and go from 32psi to 35 all around and see how that affects things.

I just had these put on, coming from original Cinturato P7 runflats back in 2012. The pluses are, they are extremely quiet and much more compliant: no jarring impacts over potholes, steering feel is decent as well for the electric system. The grip is a huge step up from the runflats although my fronts were extremely worn out before. The car seems significantly different.

The only minuses I see so far are the steering is a bit lighter in terms of effort, and the need for a flat tire kit and/or towing coverage.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by spiff56747

I just had these put on, coming from original Cinturato P7 runflats back in 2012. The pluses are, they are extremely quiet and much more compliant: no jarring impacts over potholes, steering feel is decent as well for the electric system. The grip is a huge step up from the runflats although my fronts were extremely worn out before. The car seems significantly different.

The only minuses I see so far are the steering is a bit lighter in terms of effort, and the need for a flat tire kit and/or towing coverage.

I assume you're talking about the Pirelli P Zero A/S plus? They've gotten good reviews. As far as the towing coverage, if you have a Visa Signature card there is a roadside assistance feature included. You pay $69.99 on an as-needed basis. No need to pay a yearly fee as you would with AAA.

[natesi]

He was talking about the Pirelli All Season Plus.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by natesi

He was talking about the Pirelli All Season Plus.

I figured. The comment about the lighter steering effort seems normal. Some have said that going to non-RFT also slows the turn-in response. Is this true with these Pirellis also?

[spiff56747]

Originally Posted by LMK5

I figured. The comment about the lighter steering effort seems normal. Some have said that going to non-RFT also slows the turn-in response. Is this true with these Pirellis also?

Yes I was talking about the Pzero A/S. I'll have to see about turn-in response. It's hard to think back now that I've had them for a week. My initial reaction on the first day was actually a bit negative due to the lighter steering.

However then I realized how much more compliant the ride was, which is something I really like. The steering effort being lighter is something that I am already getting used to. The heavy steering is not a good replacement for hydraulic steering with lots of feedback that is missing on these cars anyway, so not a big loss.

There is still some feedback with these tires and the grip is phenomenal. These tires are also almost silent compared to the RFTs (not sure if the better the grip and lower noise is because of how old the RFTs were).

[Gen13 F36]

So what have you decided to get?

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by Gen13 F36

So what have you decided to get?

In my case I got the Bridgestone Driveguards.

[Savageenterprise]

I had the DWS06 on myg37s and I took turns onto on ramps/off ramps at a high rate of speed without hearing a peep. I never had a wobbly feeling on them, they always felt solid (non rft) and capable. For the price you can't beat them

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

I had the DWS06 on myg37s and I took turns onto on ramps/off ramps at a high rate of speed without hearing a peep. I never had a wobbly feeling on them, they always felt solid (non rft) and capable. For the price you can't beat them

It seems lots of people here have had success with the DWS06. In the latest tirerack test though, they were not the highest rated when tested against 3 other choices.

[natesi]

Initial thoughts: I don't know what to make up the Pirelli All Season Plus, quite yet. I'm not in love though.

I bought the 225/45 18 inch size and was coming from the stock 17 inch Continental SSRs (which were utterly terrible).

At 35 lbs of pressure, the All Season Plus felt like I was riding on FOUR flat tires compared to the SSRs. All the feedback from tiny road bumps were lost and the steering felt SUPER numb.

I jacked it up to 39 lbs of pressure which seems like a nice trade off -- doesn't feel like all the tires are flat any more, turn-in responsiveness is good, and it gives better feedback with the road.

The All Season Plus has an odd combination of characteristics though: It feels squishy, soft, jello-y, and numb yet still more sensitive to road imperfections than you would expect and a little too twitchy on the freeway.

* Over road imperfections -- like when one side of the lane is patched, or like on grooved pavement, the tire is soft, squirmy, and jello-y -- jiggling me from side to side.
* The tire has a pretty soft ride, yet on the freeway, the car changes direction at the SLIGHTEST movement of the steering wheel -- as if it is a more hard-core tire with a much stiffer sidewall. I really didn't want something twitchy and this feels a hair too twitchy for me -- on the freeway, at least. I was thinking that maybe my alignment is off (even though I just got it done), but I was having a stubborn balancing issue with these new tires, and as a troubleshooting step, I threw my winter wheels/tires on the front of the car (Perilli Sottozero 3 -- 225/45 on 18 inch wheels also) -- and it was a DREAM to drive -- straight as a freaking arrow, smooth as glass, and didn't act stupid over ANY road imperfections, grooves on the freeway, etc. So, although it's possible it could be somewhat alignment related, it also seems to be a characteristic of this tire. And one other thing: Even though the Sottozero 3 is a winter tire, the steering wasn't as numb and at low speeds the steering wheel required A LOT, LOT, LOT more effort.

* In regards to tramlining: It doesn't really "tramline", per se. You know the grooves are there by the way the car behaves, but it is fairly minor. If I make a slight steering correction, while in grooved road, on the freeway, the tires are a little more sensitive though.

In summary:

• It's soft, squishy, and gives little feedback.
• Yet twitchy at highway speeds (70+ mph)
• Jello-y over road imperfections
• The steering effort is lighter than before
• Turn-in (cornering response) seems OK (I haven't done anything too stupid yet), but like I said, feedback is on the numb side.
• Ability to not tramline is acceptable
• So, a more comfort oriented tire -- yet very sensitive to the slightest change in steering at freeway speeds and will shuffle you side to side a bit over odd road imperfections (grooved roadways, pavement patches). But it's like you're being shuffled around on a cloud of jello with little communication as to what is going on with tires -- not like the runflats which might behave somewhat the same, but in a more direct and immediate manner -- so you know what is happening. The Jello-y effect is a bit unsettling.

I just find this an odd combination of characteristics -- soft and numb, yet sensitive at the same time. I don't think it does a good job at blending comfort and sportiness. I'll give it more time though and chime in later -- maybe I'll acclimate. Worst case scenario: I return them -- and try something different. Maybe I need a touring tire rather than an ultra-high-performance all season -- I do more freeway and much less hooning compared to when I was younger.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by natesi

Initial thoughts: I don't know what to make up the Pirelli All Season Plus, quite yet. I'm not in love though.

I bought the 225/45 18 inch size and was coming from the stock 17 inch Continental SSRs (which were utterly terrible).

At 35 lbs of pressure, the All Season Plus felt like I was riding on FOUR flat tires compared to the SSRs. All the feedback from tiny road bumps were lost and the steering felt SUPER numb.

I jacked it up to 39 lbs of pressure which seems like a nice trade off -- doesn't feel like all the tires are flat any more, turn-in responsiveness is good, and it gives better feedback with the road.

The All Season Plus has an odd combination of characteristics though: It feels squishy, soft, jello-y, and numb yet still more sensitive to road imperfections than you would expect and a little too twitchy on the freeway.

* Over road imperfections -- like when one side of the lane is patched, or like on grooved pavement, the tire is soft, squirmy, and jello-y -- jiggling me from side to side.
* The tire has a pretty soft ride, yet on the freeway, the car changes direction at the SLIGHTEST movement of the steering wheel -- as if it is a more hard-core tire with a much stiffer sidewall. I really didn't want something twitchy and this feels a hair too twitchy for me -- on the freeway, at least. I was thinking that maybe my alignment is off (even though I just got it done), but I was having a stubborn balancing issue with these new tires, and as a troubleshooting step, I threw my winter wheels/tires on the front of the car (Perilli Sottozero 3 -- 225/45 on 18 inch wheels also) -- and it was a DREAM to drive -- straight as a freaking arrow, smooth as glass, and didn't act stupid over ANY road imperfections, grooves on the freeway, etc. So, although it's possible it could be somewhat alignment related, it also seems to be a characteristic of this tire. And one other thing: Even though the Sottozero 3 is a winter tire, the steering wasn't as numb and at low speeds the steering wheel required A LOT, LOT, LOT more effort.

* In regards to tramlining: It doesn't really "tramline", per se. You know the grooves are there by the way the car behaves, but it is fairly minor. If I make a slight steering correction, while in grooved road, on the freeway, the tires are a little more sensitive though.

In summary:

• It's soft, squishy, and gives little feedback.
• Yet twitchy at highway speeds (70+ mph)
• Jello-y over road imperfections
• The steering effort is lighter than before
• Turn-in (cornering response) seems OK (I haven't done anything too stupid yet), but like I said, feedback is on the numb side.
• Ability to not tramline is acceptable
• So, a more comfort oriented tire -- yet very sensitive to the slightest change in steering at freeway speeds and will shuffle you side to side a bit over odd road imperfections (grooved roadways, pavement patches). But it's like you're being shuffled around on a cloud of jello with little communication as to what is going on with tires -- not like the runflats which might behave somewhat the same, but in a more direct and immediate manner -- so you know what is happening. The Jello-y effect is a bit unsettling.

I just find this an odd combination of characteristics -- soft and numb, yet sensitive at the same time. I don't think it does a good job at blending comfort and sportiness. I'll give it more time though and chime in later -- maybe I'll acclimate. Worst case scenario: I return them -- and try something different. Maybe I need a touring tire rather than an ultra-high-performance all season -- I do more freeway and much less hooning compared to when I was younger.

Wow, thanks for that great review. I've seen other reviews of posters who also mention that when they switch from RFTs to conventional tires the ride does feel more squishy or squirmy and they try to compensate with higher pressures. Lighter steering effort is also commonly noted. But the road manners that you mention seem out of place, although I'm not sure many on this forum have switched to the P Zero A/S Plus. On the tirerack.com review of this tire--which uses a BMW 4-series GC--they seem to praise the ride and road manners. It's interesting how your experience differs.

I assume you'll take them back? Would you then try a tire that has more votes on this forum, such as the Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ or the Continental DWS 06?

[metallicpea]

The DWS are know to have somewhat weak steering response.

What I can gather from your posts is that you want moderately sporty, but also quiet and comfortable. And all at a good value price point. A/S tires will be more quiet and comfortable and summer tires will be more sporty. So you are probably looking for a summer tire that gets the best noise and comfort ratings, or an A/S tire that gets the best performance ratings.

I wouldn't normally recommend Pirelli as they have always worn too quickly for me, but since you are only talking short use, maybe the P zero all season plus would be a good choice.
Otherwise, call your local Firestone corporate store (they have independents too, but likely have less access to these tires) and see if they can get the Indy 500s for you. If you are OK with the less sharp steering the DWS 06 is great.

I would consider a slightly wider front size. My Brother-In-Law went 235/45x18 front and stayed 255 rear.

I have a pretty used set of Michelin A/S 3. I didn't recommend them due to their high price point, but maybe you are interested to try these cheap. And with limited concern in the wet, they will still last a little bit. I liked the ride while I had these on. Quiet, responsive and not harsh like the stock RFTs.

[natesi]

Thanks.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I've had the Michelin Pilot A/S 3 AND the Continental DWS on previous cars before -- although not the revised versions of these tires (not the "3+" or the "06").

I thought the DWS was really latent to turn-in. It's like the sidewall had to "fold" and then the car turned a second or two later. But maybe this has been fixed with the "06" version. The Tire Rack review makes it sound like turn in might still be an issue though (slowest of the group). On the other hand, maybe the DWS 06 would mitigate the twitchiness I don't like on the freeway.

The A/S 3 was good, but not very comfortable -- and not quiet. Although, compared to runflats it is hard to say. Relatively speaking, it probably would be quieter and more comfortable. Hard to say.

It seems like new tires are a bit "oily", so maybe the Pirelli All Season Plus will improve after a little while. I think I have a month to try them out and make a decision.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by natesi

Thanks.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I've had the Michelin Pilot A/S 3 AND the Continental DWS on previous cars before -- although not the revised versions of these tires (not the "3+" or the "06").

I thought the DWS was really latent to turn-in. It's like the sidewall had to "fold" and then the car turned a second or two later. But maybe this has been fixed with the "06" version. The Tire Rack review makes it sound like turn in might still be an issue though (slowest of the group). On the other hand, maybe the DWS 06 would mitigate the twitchiness I don't like on the freeway.

The A/S 3 was good, but not very comfortable -- and not quiet. Although, compared to runflats it is hard to say. Relatively speaking, it probably would be quieter and more comfortable. Hard to say.

It seems like new tires are a bit "oily", so maybe the Pirelli All Season Plus will improve after a little while. I think I have a month to try them out and make a decision.

When you had the A/S 3 and the DWS were they on a car that previously had RFTs so you could make a direct comparison?

I have close to 1k miles on the Driveguards now. They are certainly an improvement over the ContiSportContacts I had, however, I still get some growl on 90 degree turns and more road noise over coarse pavement than I'd like. Hard to say how much of that is the fault of the tires vs. the F30's soundproofing.

[natesi]

Originally Posted by LMK5

When you had the A/S 3 and the DWS were they on a car that previously had RFTs so you could make a direct comparison?

No; those were other cars without runflats -- so hard to make a comparison. I would guess that virtually anything is an improvement over a runflat though. = )

I just took the Perelli All Season Plus up to the hills and drove like a maniac. I really like the turn in -- not too quick and not too slow. I intentionally went into corners a way too fast to see how the grip was, and the car never even understeered -- it just stuck. So the grip is really good IMO. More than I'll ever need, hopefully.

I might be able to get use to the freeway characteristics, or get the alignment changed a hair. I **do** keep having vibration issues with these, however. I had the fronts road force balanced and it seems a lot better, but now I'm getting a strange vibration, at times, in the seat. So this will be 3rd trip in to get them balanced. I guess I should have had them road force all of them, but I thought the vibrations were all in the front, last time I went in.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by natesi

No; those were other cars without runflats -- so hard to make a comparison. I would guess that virtually anything is an improvement over a runflat though. = )

I just took the Perelli All Season Plus up to the hills and drove like a maniac. I really like the turn in -- not too quick and not too slow. I intentionally went into corners a way too fast to see how the grip was, and the car never even understeered -- it just stuck. So the grip is really good IMO. More than I'll ever need, hopefully.

I might be able to get use to the freeway characteristics, or get the alignment changed a hair. I **do** keep having vibration issues with these, however. I had the fronts road force balanced and it seems a lot better, but now I'm getting a strange vibration, at times, in the seat. So this will be 3rd trip in to get them balanced. I guess I should have had them road force all of them, but I thought the vibrations were all in the front, last time I went in.

A seat vibration--if its tires--would likely be an issue in one of the rears. I bought my tires at Costco and the balance seems good. Were your's purchased at Discount Tires? You also mentioned you used new 18" wheels for the new tires so that's also an unknown.

[natesi]

Yeah; got both at Discount. I'll let them figure out if it is wheels or tires, I guess. They said a road force balance will tell them if the issue is the wheel or the tire.