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      05-23-2019, 10:58 PM   #67
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I feel like I dodged a bullet here. I've been following the issue for awhile and when I found out earlier this year that the repair program expanded to cover my August 2013 build 328i I took it to my dealer at 65,000 miles.

My car's repair timeline:
  • Tech confirmed the whirring noise.
  • Replaced the timing chain, guides, and oil pump gear train; still had the whirring noise.
  • Replaced the oil pump and counterbalance assembly; still whirring.
  • Shop foreman brought in and confirmed problem.
  • Dealer had a BMW field engineer come out to look at the car.
  • BMW authorized a new short block replacement at their cost.

From the work documentation:
Quote:
Cause: VERIFIED WHINING NOISE, REMV BELT, STILL NOISY, VERIFIED NOISE FROM TIMING CHAIN

Correction: REPLACE TIMING CHAIN & OIL PUMP MOD, REASSY & TEST OPERATION NOISE STILL PRESENT, LISTEN W/STETHOSCOPE, HEARD NOISE COMING FROM OIL PAN, REPLACE OIL PUMP & COUNTERBALANCE ASSY, REASSY & TEST OPERATION, FND NOISE STILL PRESENT, SHOP FOREMAN & TSE INVOLVED NOW, FURTHER INSP FND CHAIN & GUIDE WEAR CAUSED DAMAGE TO OIL PUMP WHICH DAMAGED ENGINE, PER TSE REPLACE ENGINE & RD TEST, TEST OPERATION ON COLD START- OK, RESET ADAPTATIONS, VEH I-LEVEL TOO LOW TO RESET ADAPTAT- IONS, PROGRAM & ENCODE TO LATEST LEVEL & RESET ADAPTS-OK, NO FURTHER ISSUES NOTED AT THIS TIME, SUBLET FOR FLUIDS COVERED UNDER 7/70 EXT WTY USED 0050000 FOR 51 FRU FOR OVERLAP OF ALL LOPS, HAD VEH PUT BACK TOGETHER EACH TIME
I tried to get this repair done a year or two ago but I was told the whirring noise was similar to other BMW of that vintage so it must just be normal.
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      05-24-2019, 12:32 AM   #68
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This is the first I've heard of any sort of sludge issue in an n20.

I mean, these engines have been out of a while and sludge build up is definitely NOT a "known issue".

Valve cover gaskets are somewhat common to replace on the n20 and I've never heard reports of anyone seeing sludge build up when the valve cover comes off. Furthermore, I've never heard of anyone reporting sludge being a factor, at all, on these timing chain failures, until just now. keep in mind deanmajidy bought his car used and doesn't know the history.

The fact is, no one has been able to correlate n20 oil change intervals to timing chain failures. There's been no evidence of that.

And, if the root problem was sludge related, it would be obvious and quite easy for BMW, or a BMW technician, to see that when they inspect the engine or replace timing components. And that's never been mentioned before. It also doesn't make sense that BMW would know sludge is the root cause and then design a new timing chain. And, furthermore, that the new timing chain revision would solve the problem.

Last edited by natesi; 05-24-2019 at 12:43 AM..
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      05-24-2019, 02:08 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natesi View Post
This is the first I've heard of any sort of sludge issue in an n20.

I mean, these engines have been out of a while and sludge build up is definitely NOT a "known issue".

Valve cover gaskets are somewhat common to replace on the n20 and I've never heard reports of anyone seeing sludge build up when the valve cover comes off. Furthermore, I've never heard of anyone reporting sludge being a factor, at all, on these timing chain failures, until just now. keep in mind deanmajidy bought his car used and doesn't know the history.

The fact is, no one has been able to correlate n20 oil change intervals to timing chain failures. There's been no evidence of that.

And, if the root problem was sludge related, it would be obvious and quite easy for BMW, or a BMW technician, to see that when they inspect the engine or replace timing components. And that's never been mentioned before. It also doesn't make sense that BMW would know sludge is the root cause and then design a new timing chain. And, furthermore, that the new timing chain revision would solve the problem.

Sludge has been a known issue, which is why everyone is going with shorter OCI.

@ Egon0119, you lucky lucky man, your car just had a new lease on life literally lol! I'm about 67.5k now, in about 2k miles i will schedule one last visit to see if i can get mine changed.
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      05-24-2019, 08:18 AM   #70
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Sludge is not a known issue. Im at 89k miles. I do roughly 10k oil changes life of the car. I do not have any sludge and i am not in the least concerned about sludge in my car.
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      05-24-2019, 08:24 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by RMachuca3d View Post
Sludge has been a known issue, which is why everyone is going with shorter OCI.
Where are all the posts of people finding sludge in their n20 then? You will be hard pressed to find anything. So, no, this not a "known issue" for the n20 -- particularly at the recommended OCI.

I scoured the web and this is all I could come up with:

Sludge, but due to turbo inlet leak -- not the norm: https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1289281

Sludge due to a 24,000 mile oil change?!? That doesn't count -- 24K is not the OCI and any engine will have sludge after severe neglect like that.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1276464

One report here, with little detail. This is another used car with unknown history and unknown OCI. It's the ONLY other sludge issue I could find on an n20 not attributed to neglect or a turbo inlet leak. This is an isolated report with little detail -- could easily be due to neglect, like the post above. Which is likely -- since no sludge has been reported with anyone at the recommended OCI.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1023545
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      05-24-2019, 01:14 PM   #72
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I actually received a call from BMW NA Exec Offices. (I Sent an email off to any execs i could find an email for online including CEO). Supposedly CEO read my email and forwarded to someone to look into. Explained my situation to this lady, said she would she what she could do. Again, they denied everything and told me they would give me $1000 loyalty cash if i went and bought another BMW

Well looks like I am going to go with the Indy shop for a motor swap. The only way I'm doing it though is if I can find a 2015 used motor with the updated timing chain components or if I can find a re-manufactured motor for a good price.
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      05-24-2019, 02:20 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post


Hey, leave my Gran Coupe out of this

Look, you have a beautiful car. I'm in a lowly 3er and each time I see a gran coupe I think, there is a nice looking car. But the fact is if you have 4 doors, it can't be a coupe. They can call it a coupe but it isn't really. The BMW super duper naming team could have called it a gran motorcycle, or a gran airplane, but that would not have been correct either.

What you've got is a really, really nice car with a name that sucks to those who care at all about accuracy. Just smile and enjoy your ride. We are just jealous.
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      05-24-2019, 04:01 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
Look, you have a beautiful car. I'm in a lowly 3er and each time I see a gran coupe I think, there is a nice looking car. But the fact is if you have 4 doors, it can't be a coupe. They can call it a coupe but it isn't really. The BMW super duper naming team could have called it a gran motorcycle, or a gran airplane, but that would not have been correct either.

What you've got is a really, really nice car with a name that sucks to those who care at all about accuracy. Just smile and enjoy your ride. We are just jealous.
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      05-25-2019, 05:48 PM   #75
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I'm going to say something that isn't very popular, but I think some guys baby these cars to much sometimes.

I had a 328 with 120k on it in 4 years. I beat on the car daily as far as acceleration and braking/traffic situations go. But I also changed the oil every 5k and changed the spark plugs every 50k - not that it matters with a timing chain.

I never had any issues with the car at all. No walnut blasting, no sludge, no burning oil, no timing chain problems, nothing.
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      05-25-2019, 07:20 PM   #76
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Would an N55 swap work directly with the transmission mated to the N20? (manual trans) The link a few posts up for the reman engines is not bad... 4k for a 335 engine
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      05-25-2019, 07:28 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
Would an N55 swap work directly with the transmission mated to the N20? (manual trans) The link a few posts up for the reman engines is not bad... 4k for a 335 engine
I like what this guy is thinking 🤔
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      06-08-2019, 01:17 PM   #78
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Sooooo, unfortunately, I am in the same exact boat. 134k Miles, never beat on the car (occasional spirited driving but nothing wild). I went to lunch yesterday and pulled back into the parking lot. The car made a weird clicking noise (which I now know was the chain slapping). Shut it off and let it cool off for 15 minutes. Went back to the car, took it around the block and when I was pulling back into the space (which I had to cross a main road to get to) the engine failed and the car stalled. I put my foot on the brake and it turned off and locked in park. I was luckily about 2 feet out of the road but completely in the way. Found out there was a neutral override screw under the car that I was able to access when a buddy brought a jack and some tools so I was able to move it out of the way. I contacted the class act lawyer earlier today and he responded and said to contact the dealer and let them know that I am aware of the class action suit and to see what they would do.

I also am a first time BMW owner and have owned the car for 2.5 years... Bought it pre-owned from a Luxury Dealer and haven't had any major issues (other than the valve cover recall that was fixed for free). I asked about the chain issue recall and they wouldn't do it because my car was over the allotted extended warranty mileage.

Regular oil changes have been completed and plugs were recently changed... The car did stall 2 times randomly over the last few months but no codes went along with the stall.

I've sourced a pre-owned motor with 65k and could put it in myself but may pay to have it installed... Pretty frustrating that this is such a widely known issue and BMW will not step up to the plate.

This is my first and will likely be my last BMW.
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      06-08-2019, 02:06 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandurante View Post
Sooooo, unfortunately, I am in the same exact boat. 134k Miles, never beat on the car (occasional spirited driving but nothing wild). I went to lunch yesterday and pulled back into the parking lot. The car made a weird clicking noise (which I now know was the chain slapping). Shut it off and let it cool off for 15 minutes. Went back to the car, took it around the block and when I was pulling back into the space (which I had to cross a main road to get to) the engine failed and the car stalled. I put my foot on the brake and it turned off and locked in park. I was luckily about 2 feet out of the road but completely in the way. Found out there was a neutral override screw under the car that I was able to access when a buddy brought a jack and some tools so I was able to move it out of the way. I contacted the class act lawyer earlier today and he responded and said to contact the dealer and let them know that I am aware of the class action suit and to see what they would do.

I also am a first time BMW owner and have owned the car for 2.5 years... Bought it pre-owned from a Luxury Dealer and haven't had any major issues (other than the valve cover recall that was fixed for free). I asked about the chain issue recall and they wouldn't do it because my car was over the allotted extended warranty mileage.

Regular oil changes have been completed and plugs were recently changed... The car did stall 2 times randomly over the last few months but no codes went along with the stall.

I've sourced a pre-owned motor with 65k and could put it in myself but may pay to have it installed... Pretty frustrating that this is such a widely known issue and BMW will not step up to the plate.

This is my first and will likely be my last BMW.
Wow ... just like that " my first and will likely be my last BMW ". Man if I be like that I won't be able to own a car at all. With car troubles stories from relative and friends... what else can I buy that will be a perfect. I know I sound crazy but shit this happened to my brother Toyota by all the most reliable brand out there.

To end this Knock on wood big time.
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      06-08-2019, 02:37 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Wow ... just like that " my first and will likely be my last BMW ". Man if I be like that I won't be able to own a car at all. With car troubles stories from relative and friends... what else can I buy that will be a perfect. I know I sound crazy but shit this happened to my brother Toyota by all the most reliable brand out there.

To end this Knock on wood big time.
Yeah, but nobody expects any modern engine to suddenly and unexpectedly die, at what is not really that high of mileage, by today's standards. Especially something like a timing chain.

Every car has problems, for sure -- some more than others, which could be luck of the draw. But the fact is, this is BMWs fault and they need to take accountability for it -- not pass their rushed R&D and lack of testing efforts onto the consumer. I mean, why would anyone buy another car from a company that has burned them and refuses to take accountability for what is clearly their own major, major, fuck up? I can't blame the guy -- it's totally unethical. We're not talking about valve cover gaskets, water pumps, coil packs, fuel pumps, etc -- we're talking about a grendaded engine. There's a big difference. It's BMWs shit-design and it is developing into an epidemic -- not one-off random issues.

Why should the consumer be held responsible for BMWs decision to perform shoddy work? There's a cost associated with better engineering, design, and testing -- and BMW decided to trade time and money savings for the added risk of component failure. That was their decision, yet the consumer suffers, and BMW wants to wash their hands of it

In other words, BMW wants all the advantages of taking high risk, with none of the accountability. Extending the timing chain warranty to 70K is a joke -- most people will experience failure after that, and they know this.
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      06-08-2019, 02:46 PM   #81
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I am new to BMW car ownership, I have an F30 that is 2012. 62k miles. If I have the timing belt replaced before it goes out, will it be of a different quality that won't have the same notorious history of breaking? Or will it just be a new timing chain of the same ilk?
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      06-08-2019, 03:03 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyEvo8u View Post
I actually received a call from BMW NA Exec Offices. (I Sent an email off to any execs i could find an email for online including CEO). Supposedly CEO read my email and forwarded to someone to look into. Explained my situation to this lady, said she would she what she could do. Again, they denied everything and told me they would give me $1000 loyalty cash if i went and bought another BMW

Well looks like I am going to go with the Indy shop for a motor swap. The only way I'm doing it though is if I can find a 2015 used motor with the updated timing chain components or if I can find a re-manufactured motor for a good price.
Any updates on this OP? Have you located a used post 01/15 N20 built date or get a N55? Ever since I got my Ď15 320i random ppl think itís the best thing since sliced bread and want one (I mean itís a 320, nothing special). I tell them to get one that is built 01/15 or newer to avoid issues
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So there is actually more of a chance to get more hp out of a 330 then a 335 in my opinion
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      06-08-2019, 03:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
I am new to BMW car ownership, I have an F30 that is 2012. 62k miles. If I have the timing belt replaced before it goes out, will it be of a different quality that won't have the same notorious history of breaking? Or will it just be a new timing chain of the same ilk?
It's not a belt. It's a chain -- and should last the life of the engine. To replace it, even preventively, along with the other defective components, is an exorbitant expense.
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      06-08-2019, 04:11 PM   #84
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This makes me super nervous too! guess we all have to be nervous with the N20 which really sucks. I literally think about something Failing all the time! Im on bm3 stage 2 93 and only drive in sport+ mode (I turn start/stop off everytime I start the car) but my car idles a little rough on start up alot (duration is about 30secs)
I have a lot into my car and it sucks I have to worry about the motor blowing up on me constantly, I rode my Motorcycle for 2 years daily to save money to buy this car outright because I planned on keeping it till I could save for an M3, I wish I had joined the forum sooner and found out all these N20 issues before buying one. just broke 80k, I guess I'm hoping to make it to 100k then I'll just sell this bia! This was supposed to get me by till the M
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      06-08-2019, 04:30 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastActionJax View Post
This makes me super nervous too! guess we all have to be nervous with the N20 which really sucks. I literally think about something Failing all the time! Im on bm3 stage 2 93 and only drive in sport+ mode (I turn start/stop off everytime I start the car) but my car idles a little rough on start up alot (duration is about 30secs)
I have a lot into my car and it sucks I have to worry about the motor blowing up on me constantly, I rode my Motorcycle for 2 years daily to save money to buy this car outright because I planned on keeping it till I could save for an M3, I wish I had joined the forum sooner and found out all these N20 issues before buying one. just broke 80k, I guess I'm hoping to make it to 100k then I'll just sell this bia! This was supposed to get me by till the M
I don't know what I'd do either -- it's a shitty situation for a lot of people and your options depend on how much disposable income you have, as well.

Not all n20 / n26 engines are affected though. Allegedly, those built after Jan 2015 will have the revised part. But who really knows exactly when they changed over to the new design, in the manufacturing process. I would guess the later into 2015 your car was built, the better chance you have of the revised timing chain. Certainly, anyone with a 2016 should be OK.
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      06-08-2019, 04:50 PM   #86
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@dandurante what year is the vehicle? How many miles have you personally put on it?
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      06-08-2019, 04:54 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natesi View Post
I don't know what I'd do either -- it's a shitty situation for a lot of people and your options depend on how much disposable income you have, as well.

Not all n20 / n26 engines are affected though. Allegedly, those built after Jan 2015 will have the revised part. But who really knows exactly when they changed over to the new design, in the manufacturing process. I would guess the later into 2015 your car was built, the better chance you have of the revised timing chain. Certainly, anyone with a 2016 should be OK.
Yeah mine is a 12, So first gen guinea pig year lol.
But theirs fault on my end too for not doing as much research as I could have I guess. I was just excited when I purchased and read only good things in articles because they predated these problems.
Guess I'll always drive with my fingers crossed on the steering wheel. I feel so bad for these guys, it's a real shame especially when you've trusted the brand in the past, I just hope I dont get added to the blown motor list
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      06-09-2019, 05:56 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyEvo8u View Post
Oh man I know, biggest regret is, I wish i just paid in advance to have the timing chain replaced since it is a known issue. My other issue is that I wonder if my timing chain took longer to go then normal because I babied the car and didn't over stress it.

I am just completely lost for words. Good luck with yours man! I always lived by that saying maintenance & not beating on your car all the time is key for a long living motor hahaha.
What is the cost of having it replaced under the warranty?
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