[....,,,,..,,..]

It's a hard drive ne to actually do.

Irrespective what people say, it is religion based and the solution to SOME of it must come from the top echelon of their respective faith - mainly Sunni.

Additionally countries such as Saudi Arabia must be made to go after its home grown terrorists, rather than just keep bombing Shia's.

I also (strangely it may seem) believe we need closer ties to Iran to help it back on its road to democracy albeit in a religiously controlled country, however empowering its moderates is a good start.

Utterly utterly pointless trying to impose a pathetic ban like the US has, they simply do not have a clue, they fail to ban the likes of Saudi and Pakistan and other actual high risk countries - mental.

Also remember the last attacks in Manchester and Warington ? They were by the IRA, whose political arm have been funded to 10s of millions by the Americans! Pot and kettle anyone?

With immigration we need to stop pushing every fucker in to the same bit of our cities, expand them out, shove more in to Scotland, more in to Wales, actually use the land we have.

Actually enforce the learning of english (bugger for us geordies).

It needs to be a hearts and mind but with a fucking big stick if required.

We cannot get too 1984 on everyone, that will likely alienate people further.

In th scheme of things we do not actually get that many immigrants and those we do get most are fine.

Now anyone that has been away fighting for ISIS or in Sudan. Etc should not be allowed back in the country - ever.

If it is found out people here are actively supporting the likes of ISIS, then deport them, send them to country of birth irrespective of time sent here.

Above it's hard and no simple solution, these apologists and foaming at the mouth kill and ban all Muslims just do not help, they are part of the problem.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Ahh, if exposed as a fraud, quote wikileaks, or say "It's all over the internet", rather than link to real, reliable, sourced articles.

As per your other 'answers' (which are basically deflections, pretending to make a point whilst avoiding the hard questions)

The black death is THOUGHT most likely to have come from central Asia. But no definitive proof. In fact, the black death brought about the renaissance in Europe, as the shortage of workers meant wages rose, people became wealthier. Unlike in North America, where the introduction of diseases was combined with turfing the natives off their best hunting grounds, leading to starvation and a higher mortality rate due to malnourishment.
'The next biggest killed (sic) of native was native', again, classic 'whataboutery'. Ignore this, look at that instead, even though it's tiny in comparison !

As to the europeans not getting free shelter and food when they came to the Americas, I suggest you research a little bit of your own history. On any number of recorded occasions, tribes supplied food to the settlers in winter to help prevent starvation. Jamestown in 1608, for example. What was their reward ? To be thrown off their land and exterminated a few years later.

Your ignorance is truly staggering. I can understand you being ignorant of the UK and Europe, and the Middle East. But your stupidity extends to your own country and it's history as well.

The saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing", seems appropriate for you. And you've certainly only got a little knowledge.

Wages have nothing to do with the fact that the Indiana's died from plague and you faulting European for that is the same as blaming Asian for black plague.

You are aware that the Spanish and Portuguese already landed and colonize way before the British without aid from the population

Now are you done cherry picking your history in order to manipulated to push your failed view point. Heck you never return to the other topic where I absolutely educated you on islamic aggression, crusades, and reconquista and it effects in Natives.

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Wages have nothing to do with the fact that the Indiana's died from plague and you faulting European for that is the same as blaming Asian for black plague.

You are aware that the Spanish and Portuguese already landed and colonize way before the British without aid from the population

Now are you done cherry picking your history in order to manipulated to push your failed view point. Heck you never return to the other topic where I absolutely educated you on islamic aggression and reconquista and it effects in North America

The day you educate anyone is the day the world ends. How is your new internet bride/sister btw?

[mcoops]

I'm finding myself agreeing with quite a bit of Brigand's post. Very concerning

A few thoughts in response:

- Agree religious leaders have to play a role
- That said, there is evidence that many of those recruited are more disaffected than particularly devout
- Wholeheartedly agree that foreign policy is not 'optimised' to address the threat - other interests (trade, regional stability) tend to cloud things
- I do hope and think it's possible to say that integration to host culture is needed without this being judged as prejudice
- Apparently the restrictions on entry and exit are starting to bite, but the knock on effect is that ISIS are telling home-grown radicals to cause chaos at home instead of trying to travel to Syria. You can't win!

[MashinBenzin]

Whilst I haven't got time to reply properly, I also thought that Brigand's post contained a lot that I agree with. In particular , bringing Iran back into the fold by supporting the moderates and getting realistic with Saudi Arabia.

Darth Helmut made a good and succinct point too

[Andrewthefirst]

I think we as a society need to get less tolerant! Tougher laws, and empower the police to deal with guys like this. Less concern on offending others. This is the UK, accept our ways or f*ck right off. Our whole welcoming liberal attitude and our fear of offending anyone is going to be the ruin of our society.

Why do we tolerate the below? The police just fence these guys in, and instead will arrest the EDL or suchlike for turning up to take them on. Why do we let these f*ckers away with stuff like this? Remove the right of these nut jobs to live here instead of putting them on a watch list!

We are far too soft and are becoming a laughing stock.

[TodmordenLad]

I don't have a solution which addresses the root causes of the kinds of terrorism which we are now witnessing in Britain

I do however think that the govt's security services need to be given the wherewithal and resources to do their jobs properly - and if this meant that we lost some of our civil liberties in terms of privacy of information in order to prevent the kind of atrocities which took place on Monday night, I for one wouldn't give a damn!!

[rich100]

Donald Trumps's election pledge to destroy Isis the specifics of which were I believe to "bomb the shit out of them" do not appear yet to have materialised.

Wish he'd hurry up with that one, if he was by some miracle able to purge them from the planet it might start to change my view point of him. Probably needs more fine tuning though given that the cowardly bastards for the most part operate from the shadows.

[Edinburra]

Originally Posted by Andrewthefirst

I think we as a society need to get less tolerant! Tougher laws, and empower the police to deal with guys like this. Less concern on offending others. This is the UK, accept our ways or f*ck right off. Our whole welcoming liberal attitude and our fear of offending anyone is going to be the ruin of our society.

Why do we tolerate the below? The police just fence these guys in, and instead will arrest the EDL or suchlike for turning up to take them on. Why do we let these f*ckers away with stuff like this? Remove the right of these nut jobs to live here instead of putting them on a watch list!

We are far too soft and are becoming a laughing stock.

Thank you for putting these point so well, I echo the sentiments entirely.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

Penis-breath, the day you educate anyone is the day the world ends. How is your new internet bride/sister btw?

O it the queen lizard jester.

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

O it the queen lizard jester.

Retard.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

Retard.

Fuck me, you are being overly nice to the Pond life.

I never realised he had actually reached retard level.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

Retard.

Per member request I remove the post.

I would hope all insult post towards me will be remove as a show of respect to one another.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by Brigand

@Mods can you delete the above post by Jaghave, as it is utterly sick and disgusting in light of the recent attacks, we do have forum members with friends relations that were impacted by this terrorist attack.

This is a step too far from the Troll known as Jaghave.

Was anything I stated false. Sooner or later instead of insulting people you have to face the reality that this has been going on since the 60s and insulting people who are pointing to the fact that ignoring, appeasing, welcoming, and giving money not working and it only resulting in the death of innocent citizen. I lost a friend on 9/11 and I've witness terrorism only worse since and the west leadership as one of the main cause and the complentcy of the vast public allow it. So if I have to point to how insulting me for ring the alarm bell doesn't change the fact that we have young dead kids in britian due to islamic political ideology and western leadership flooding our nation with radical then i will.

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Was anything I stated false. Sooner or later instead of insulting people you have to face the reality that this has been going on since the 60s and insulting people who are pointing to the fact that ignoring, appeasing, welcoming, and giving money not working and it only resulting in the death of innocent citizen. I lost a friend on 9/11 and I've witness terrorism only worse since and the west leadership as one of the main cause and the complentcy of the vast public allow it. So if I have to point to how insulting me for ring the alarm bell doesn't change the fact that we have young dead kids in britian due to islamic political ideology and western leadership flooding our nation with radical then i will.

Thirded @moderators. I got banned for less. He has proven beyond any doubt he has no restraint or comprehension of reality.

Get rid please.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Was anything I stated false. Sooner or later instead of insulting people you have to face the reality that this has been going on since the 60s and insulting people who are pointing to the fact that ignoring, appeasing, welcoming, and giving money not working and it only resulting in the death of innocent citizen. I lost a friend on 9/11 and I've witness terrorism only worse since and the west leadership as one of the main cause and the complentcy of the vast public allow it. So if I have to point to how insulting me for ring the alarm bell doesn't change the fact that we have young dead kids in britian due to islamic political ideology and western leadership flooding our nation with radical then i will.

The fact that you assume it was a false statement that was wrong proves exactly how utterly low you are prepared to go for your Troll points.

You are an utterly sick individual and really need banned.

Can anyone that has reported others in the past please report Jaghave and get that sick post deleted.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by Brigand

The fact that you assume it was a false statement that was wrong proves exactly how utterly low you are prepared to go for your Troll points.

You are an utterly sick individual and really need banned.

Can anyone that has reported others in the past please report Jaghave and get that sick post deleted.

So then what the objection, I get insulted for ring the alarm bell and then point out the result of ignoring the alarm bell.

Out of respect I remove the post I would hope all insults prior to my post will be remove as well as a sign of respect for one another.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

So then what the objection, I get insulted for ring the alarm bell and then point out the result of ignoring the alarm bell.

You seriously are unhinged and utterly sick.

That you fail to realise this just shows you for the person that you are.

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

So then what the objection, I get insulted for ring the alarm bell and then point out the result of ignoring the alarm bell.

You get insulted because you are an idiot. You respond with the sort of post you posted above and still dont understand in adult company that it is unacceptable.

You'll be gone soon thankfully.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by Brigand

You seriously are unhinged and utterly sick.

That you fail to realise this just shows you for the person that you are.

How am I sick when I notice the pattern we been going on about is not working and resulting in dead innocent civilian

As I stated I pull the post out of respect for you and other member I would hope you will show the same amount of respect and return to discussing facts and not resort to insults as this forum normally does

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Per member request I remove the post.

I would hope all insult post towards me will be remove as a show of respect to one another.

No because you fail to realise what an utterly sick minded American you are.

A great example of being American.

[AlfaM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Rather than replying in the Manchester thread, I thought I would start a new one for the debate. There was pretty wide agreement that that thread was not the right place yesterday; if that's changed then my thread can be safely ignored.

Some people are advocating punishing the bomber's family, taking Nobby's comment as a starting point...

I'm guessing you see this as a deterrent rather than a punishment, i.e. less likely to commit the crime if your family would be endangered.

Ahhhh... The North Korean 'Three Generation' Punishiment Rule... it's already in the small print of the Labour Manifesto. (The next two generations born in the camp must remain there for life too).