[-AndyH-]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone here has had the same problem as me.

I had the grommets removed as part of the quality enhancement and now I am getting a diesel/engine smell in the cabin for the first few miles I am using the car which is rather unpleasant.

Has anyone else found the same?

Does anyone know exactly where they removed the grommets?

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

Hi

Just wondering if anyone here has had the same problem as me.

I had the grommets removed as part of the quality enhancement and now I am getting a diesel/engine smell in the cabin for the first few miles I am using the car which is rather unpleasant.

Has anyone else found the same?

Does anyone know exactly where they removed the grommets?

That's awful. Fortunately, no such problems with my car. Hope you get it sorted.

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by F30AM

That's awful. Fortunately, no such problems with my car. Hope you get it sorted.

Thanks mate

Unfortunately the cause has been identified: it's the diesel particulate filter clip (was also a Quality Enhancement that was done on Monday).

There is potentially an issue where the clip can cause issues with the steering column heat protector so the QE advises that the clip is checked and the bolt is rotated slightly away from the heat protector.

It seems like the service technician failed to properly tighten the bolt meaning exhaust fumes have been pouring in the cabin of the car for the last 36 hours. BMW Assist have been out and shown me how the bolt securing the clip was not tightened and it was loose.

As a result, fumes have been leaking and soot has built up around the joint for the particulate filter. This now means that the whole particulate filter needs to be stripped out and cleaned (which is a major job because they need to drop the entire exhaust system and part of the engine).

To say I was irate would be an underestimate. For what should have been a simple 30 minute job, the technician has caused a major problem and potentially put the lives of me and my family in danger. I would imagine there could have been a very distinct chance of carbon monoxide poisoning (I was beginning to wonder why I had a headache for most of yesterday!!).

[M4dski11z]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

Thanks mate

Unfortunately the cause has been identified: it's the diesel particulate filter clip (was also a Quality Enhancement that was done on Monday).

There is potentially an issue where the clip can cause issues with the steering column heat protector so the QE advises that the clip is checked and the bolt is rotated slightly away from the heat protector.

It seems like the service technician failed to properly tighten the bolt meaning exhaust fumes have been pouring in the cabin of the car for the last 36 hours. BMW Assist have been out and shown me how the bolt securing the clip was not tightened and it was loose.

As a result, fumes have been leaking and soot has built up around the joint for the particulate filter. This now means that the whole particulate filter needs to be stripped out and cleaned (which is a major job because they need to drop the entire exhaust system and part of the engine).

To say I was irate would be an underestimate. For what should have been a simple 30 minute job, the technician has caused a major problem and potentially put the lives of me and my family in danger. I would imagine there could have been a very distinct chance of carbon monoxide poisoning (I was beginning to wonder why I had a headache for most of yesterday!!).

wow that's crazy. Are you going to complain?

[brommy]

Just repeating what Ray said but that situation really is bad. I'm not a fan of the compensation culture but surely an official complaint and recompense should be made.

[-AndyH-]

I've already complained and spoken to the dealer principal.

He's very apologetic and embarrassed by what has happened, but this should not negate from the fact that this could have put our lives and those of other people in danger. Something as minor as repositioning a clip has resulted in a significantly more serious problem.

I've attached the BMW QE to show what should have been done.

[F30AM]

@AndyH:

Good God. That is a most shocking bit of rubbish workmanship. The technician is a total prat and a total idiot. Yes, this is a very good case for some form of compensation. Very serious what has happened and even more serious what could have happened to your health and that of your family. You should definitely pursue it with a vengeance.

[-AndyH-]

@ F30AM

Thanks, I certainly am pushing for answers how this could ever even happen.

The dealer has been quite good about things. BMW UK on the other hand ...

BMW UK said it was a matter between me and the dealer. I think BMW UK's after-sales customer service is truly terrible. If I was a manager there, I would be calling the customer and offering a full apology with a promise to investigate. It could be the case that this Quality Enhancement needs to be looked at (loosening that clip might mean it does not seal again properly when tightened up). But they really couldn't care in the slightest.

At times it does not surprise me how they act.

[edz_f06]

That's really bad Andy good job you spotted it and something for everyone else to be aware of. Hope you can reach a suitable conclusion with your dealer.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

@ F30AM

Thanks, I certainly am pushing for answers how this could ever even happen.

The dealer has been quite good about things. BMW UK on the other hand ...

BMW UK said it was a matter between me and the dealer. I think BMW UK's after-sales customer service is truly terrible. If I was a manager there, I would be calling the customer and offering a full apology with a promise to investigate. It could be the case that this Quality Enhancement needs to be looked at (loosening that clip might mean it does not seal again properly when tightened up). But they really couldn't care in the slightest.

At times it does not surprise me how they act.

Their quality management should pick up on this instantly.

If you get no joy at dealer ring / write to BMW U.K. and explain issue, mention dreadful headaches and how this may have been due to carbon monoxide poisoning etc.

If the rework for the quality enhancement risks this, then they should instantly suspend all quality enhancements until it is looked at. If one person can fuck up it means others can and will.

[Torquein]

This is shocking, glad you got it fixed before anything serious happened. I wouldnt let it lie until I had my pound of bmw flesh

[davethefish]

after what amounts to potentially killing you and your family.
doesn't the BMW dealer as a business,
have a responsibility to report this to the HSE as it would constitute a RIDDOR?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by davethefish

after what amounts to potentially killing you and your family.
doesn't the BMW dealer as a business,
have a responsibility to report this to the HSE as it would constitute a RIDDOR?

Pretty much so, this occurrence should have been highlighted internally as a major risk.

[HighlandPete]

I agree this is a serious issue, but don't you guys think this could simply be a failure of a technician to check his own work, or even a mistake by one technician.

The clamp illustrated in the document isn't anything out of the ordinary. So any competent technician ought to be able to do this modification without messing up.

I'd imagine "internally" the garage will be taking the necessary action, but clearly see why BMW would put it back in the court of customer/garage.

Easy to want to escalate an issue on a forum discussion, but where do we see BMW needing to intervene? Unless of course the garage involved see a problem... then they may well inform BMW there needs to be more clarity in the modification procedure, or alerts/warnings being added to any documentation.

HighlandPete

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I agree this is a serious issue, but don't you guys think this could simply be a failure of a technician to check his own work, or even a mistake by one technician.

The clamp illustrated in the document isn't anything out of the ordinary. So any competent technician ought to be able to do this modification without messing up.

I'd imagine "internally" the garage will be taking the necessary action, but clearly see why BMW would put it back in the court of customer/garage.

Easy to want to escalate an issue on a forum discussion, but where do we see BMW needing to intervene? Unless of course the garage involved see a problem... then they may well inform BMW there needs to be more clarity in the modification procedure, or alerts/warnings being added to any documentation.

HighlandPete

The process BMW. Should be following is that if someone can fail to carry out a documented process and introduce a potential RIDDOR situation, then they should be internally sending out an alert to highlight this issue.

However, from experience, places tend to not report and deal with internally, therefore, repeat issues occur and ends up very costly in either recalls, image etc.

This is why putting something like this on BMW Twitter page etc works very well, stops dealers 'hiding' information.

[-AndyH-]

One of the other things I found out, from speaking to the service department, was that the instructions for the QE were in German.

I raised this with the dealer principal and he said he was sure they would have been an english translation. But he was quite cagey about what he said and didn't want to go into any detail.

I do feel strongly that BMW need to look at it - even if it is just an error by a mechanic. There is still the chance that in removing/repositioning that clip, that the seal will never be the same again unless the joints are cleaned (which is a big job).

From a customer service viewpoint, the repeatedly fail on things like this. It wouldn't take much for a phone call. It's a premium car brand and you expect premium service.

BMW have a habit of shifting responsibility to dealer - but at the end of the day, we have to go to their approved dealers. I can't go to my local dealer any more because of a long catalogue or errors/delays/mistakes/damage caused to my car (BMW UK also wanted nothing to do with this).

[NISFAN]

I'm with Pete on this one, this is a simple 'technician not completing his job' situation. The item is a very common V Band turbo clamp. The modification involves loosening the clamp until the band is loose enough to rotate. Rotate to correct position. Re-tighten. 3 Steps. One or two steps weren't done correctly (depending on whether the clamp was in the right position).

What concerns me more is that there seemed to be more fumes entering the cabin than I would expect.

Engines do give off fumes from oil seepage onto hot parts vapourising the oil/coolant/fuel, etc. , surface coatings burning off, V Bands leaks (V Bands in particular do not have a compression seal, there is usually no gasket at the joint, so are likely to leak a small amount), etc. All these things mean there is the potential for toxic fume emission in the engine compartment.

It is the design of the car to not let these vapours into the cabin. The fact that they get in so easily is of major concern. This would affect ALL OF US if there isn't something 'different' about AndyH's car.

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

It is the design of the car to not let these vapours into the cabin. The fact that they get in so easily is of major concern. This would affect ALL OF US if there isn't something 'different' about AndyH's car.

This is what the BMW Assist engineer was saying and he was confused how the fumes were getting into the cabin through the a/c. He tested it out as well, smelt the fumes and could not answer why it was happening.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

This is what the BMW Assist engineer was saying and he was confused how the fumes were getting into the cabin through the a/c. He tested it out as well, smelt the fumes and could not answer why it was happening.

I would ask BMW to look into this. There might be a breach in the firewall, bungs, or engine compartment seals, that is allowing gas into the cabin. It doesn't sound normal.

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I would ask BMW to look into this. There might be a breach in the firewall, bungs, or engine compartment seals, that is allowing gas into the cabin. It doesn't sound normal.

I will also ask them this.

The car has been repaired and I spoke to the engineer who did the work. He was very pleasant and explained that he had to drop the exhaust, remove the DPF, put on a new gasket, re-connect the DPF and tighten the clip.

He said that the clip had to be torqued to 15Nm which isn't overly tight (if it was too tight, it would break as the exhaust gases/DPF get very hot). I think he's of the opinion that they followed the QE instructions and it's the repair method itself that is flawed. The proper repair would be to do what I've listed above, but that would cost BMW a day's labour.

He said the problem is as soon as you loosen a clip like this, there is a potential that you won't get the same seal as before. It's under tension and can move slightly etc.

I am going to raise all of this with BMW UK.

[MikeMinh]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

To say I was irate would be an underestimate. For what should have been a simple 30 minute job, the technician has caused a major problem and potentially put the lives of me and my family in danger. I would imagine there could have been a very distinct chance of carbon monoxide poisoning (I was beginning to wonder why I had a headache for most of yesterday!!).

Ok guys, there was a problem. But it wasn't "carbon monoxide poisoning". A diesel engine produces very very little of that. Lives in danger? Really?

Easy to rev yourself into a frenzy, eh?

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by MikeMinh

Ok guys, there was a problem. But it wasn't "carbon monoxide poisoning". A diesel engine produces very very little of that. Lives in danger? Really?

Easy to rev yourself into a frenzy, eh?

Not really - it was bad enough that we were unable to do a 5 mile trip to the supermarket because the gases in the cabin made us nauseous.

Even the BMW Assist technician could not stay in the car when trying it out (he wanted us to see if we could drive the car to the dealer).

The burning of any hydrocarbon in a confined space produces carbon monoxide. You only have to look at the long list of carcinogens to see how toxic the gases are from the combustion of diesel. Everything we were breathing in was extremely toxic.

You're more than welcome to stick a hosepipe on the end of your exhaust and run it into your car window. See how long you can stay in the car for.