[wdeerfield]

great video. what would you say was your total time to install? Im looking to tackle this in an evening or a morning on the weekend. Ive got vrsf FMIC and CP to do.

[the dope steez]

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

great video. what would you say was your total time to install? Im looking to tackle this in an evening or a morning on the weekend. Ive got vrsf FMIC and CP to do.

It does make it much easier to do each when you do both at once - you should be able to do both in less than 3 hours. Get a buddy to help support the weight of the IC and to help thread the CP up (one of you push from the bottom, one twist an pull from the top) and you could do it even quicker.

[JaredG_F30]

Took me about 4 hours by myself with moving the camera around for all the shots. You should be able to do it in 2 with a buddy, 3 by yourself.

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

great video. what would you say was your total time to install? Im looking to tackle this in an evening or a morning on the weekend. Ive got vrsf FMIC and CP to do.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

Took me about 4 hours by myself with moving the camera around for all the shots. You should be able to do it in 2 with a buddy, 3 by yourself.

What is so involved that it takes two hours or is that just a general estimate for folks who have no idea? Not sure I understand.

The charge pipe disconnecting part seems like the biggest PITA.

[the dope steez]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

What is so involved that it takes two hours or is that just a general estimate for folks who have no idea? Not sure I understand.

The charge pipe disconnecting part seems like the biggest PITA.

Took me 3 hours to do CP the first time on MT w/ x drive. Next time I did CP and FMIC in 90 minutes. I am factoring in the pain in the ass factor and also the relax and have a couple beers so you don't drive yourself crazy pace

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by the dope steez

Took me 3 hours to do CP the first time on MT w/ x drive. Next time I did CP and FMIC in 90 minutes. I am factoring in the pain in the ass factor and also the relax and have a couple beers so you don't drive yourself crazy pace

ahh of course!,

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by matty088

I did my fmic. I notice absolutely zero in performance gain. I said it once I'll say it again. These cars don't need upgraded ic unless u track them or live out in Cali and can run the mountains for thirty mins.

I am sure logs will show a small benefit but who cares.

Save your money

I have to respectfully disagree with you here... these cars stock FMIC heatsoaks quickly especially at elevated boost levels. These stock units suffer in the summer months and I'm in Ohio. Logging a few highway pulls on the stock unit you could watch iat's walk there way up to 120's+ all the way robbing power. With my upgraded VRSF Race I can litterally watch iat's drop during pulls in these very same scenarios. Almost the exact opposite happens during logging now. Where I could watch iat's tick up in degrees while in a pull, now they tick down during pulls. Not sure if you were tuned before and maybe you were on stock boost but there is quite a difference when you turn up the boost. The cooler you can keep these motors the better they will perform and it will thank you for it.

[JaredG_F30]

I'm also counting in time for unpacking parts, organizing tools, getting the car up on ramps then jacking up, removing the bottom cover, putting bottom cover back on, etc. Yes the biggest PITA is getting the old CP out. Manhandling the new IC is a bit of a bear if you don't have a helper.

Originally Posted by the dope steez

Took me 3 hours to do CP the first time on MT w/ x drive. Next time I did CP and FMIC in 90 minutes. I am factoring in the pain in the ass factor and also the relax and have a couple beers so you don't drive yourself crazy pace

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

I have to respectfully disagree with you here... these cars stock FMIC heatsoaks quickly especially at elevated boost levels. These stock units suffer in the summer months and I'm in Ohio. Logging a few highway pulls on the stock unit you could watch iat's walk there way up to 120's+ all the way robbing power. With my upgraded VRSF Race I can litterally watch iat's drop during pulls in these very same scenarios. Almost the exact opposite happens during logging now. Where I could watch iat's tick up in degrees while in a pull, now they tick down during pulls. Not sure if you were tuned before and maybe you were on stock boost but there is quite a difference when you turn up the boost. The cooler you can keep these motors the better they will perform and it will thank you for it.

ThSts impossible. Something is broken with your logging. An ic can’t drop iat. Physics are in the way.

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by matty088

ThSts impossible. Something is broken with your logging. An ic can't drop iat. Physics are in the way.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my testing or the sensors collecting the data. You need to have an open mind and not be so quick to judge. Believe it or not there is allot of knowledge floating around here. Notice where the initial pedal input is in reference to where the ambient Iat's start. Iats start at roughly 96d F. As pedal input increases to WOT you notice iats drop steadily through the powerband where they end at roughly 6000rpm and 80d F. For a total drop in iat's of 16d F. This was a 3rd to 4th gear pull M 235i 6MT FBO JB4 in map 2 VRSF Race FMIC. Given this same scenario on a stock FMIC the outcome would have been very different. If I can dig up some old logs I will post them as I held off on a FMIC until the race version launched thus was my last piece to FBO.

*image is distorted, may try google drive to post better res*

[Drpoomanchu]

In this pic you will notice after the pull the iats will come back to 87d F.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by matty088

ThSts impossible. Something is broken with your logging. An ic can’t drop iat. Physics are in the way.

Underboost and even idle sometimes,the job of a good IC is supposed to drop the temp of the boost charge making the air cooler and denser, so what usually happens to the iat’s as a result? Let you answer!!

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

I don't think there is anything wrong with my testing or the sensors collecting the data. You need to have an open mind and not be so quick to judge.

OUCH!!!

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

In this pic you will notice after the pull the iats will come back to 87d F.

Drop da mic moment!!!Boom! Thanks for the charts

[matty088]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Underboost and even idle sometimes,the job of a good IC is supposed to drop the temp of the boost charge making the air cooler and denser, so what usually happens to the iat’s as a result? Let you answer!!

OUCH!!!


Drop da mic moment!!!Boom! Thanks for the charts

Drop da mic. Grow up.

U are on crack rock if you think any ic is going to drop temps 15 degrees over a two or three gear run. Something is faulty with his analysis. An obvious fault is that he is wot for basically half a gear. Its meaningless. I have looked at dozens of logs (including my own with a top of the line fmic) and not one is lowering iat like that. I mean shit. Not even th manufactures are claiming this. U really need to get your head out of the sand. Just Bc someone says something it doesn’t make it right.

Also when I first read his post I thought he meant drop below ambient. THAT is what I meant by my physics comment. However now that I see what he is saying he’s still wrong and his tests are faulty. Just go in any mhd or bm3 or jb4 thread and read for yourself. Enough with this nonsense

U will get a dip of a few degrees when u go wot which is true for any ic. The stock one as well. . You get a rush of fast moving air through. but as you heat that air up with your turbo it’s going to rise and rise fast. Please wake up. And look at the plethora of logs on this forum or just use common sense.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Underboost and even idle sometimes,the job of a good IC is supposed to drop the temp of the boost charge making the air cooler and denser, so what usually happens to the iat’s as a result? Let you answer!!

OUCH!!!


Drop da mic moment!!!Boom! Thanks for the charts

And your wrong. The job of an ic isn’t to drop iat. Bc only a complete ignoramus would make that claim. The job of a fmic is to slow the rate at which iat climb as your turbo heats the air. I might have to start ignoring you. All your stuff is out of left field.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

I don't think there is anything wrong with my testing or the sensors collecting the data.

What you are capturing in your analysis is true for any car and therefore isn’t relevant to testing the performance of a fmic. When u go into wot you are basiclsly opening up the movement of air. This causes an immediate drop in iat. FOR ANY INTERCOOLER SETUP STOCK OR TOP OF THE LINE
However as you stay into wot and boost you’re going to heat up that air very quickly. If you want a scientific test to measure the performance of a fmic id say go into wot at 2500 rpms in 3rd and get into atleast the middle of 6th (assuming you are auto). You’ll see temps rising for sure. However the ic that shows the least amount of rise is your winner. Of course on a road course it’s a far different set up principles. But we all have street cars so we will look at that scenario.

I’d be happy to discuss this with you once you get that done or I can share my logs with you. However ceedawg isn’t invited. I am
Joking ceedawg. But yea. You’re nuts.

Here are more scientific tests

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5aac4e54d10b43251c8572b1



http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5aac4e1fd10b43251c8572af

[matty088]

FYI. The only time u are legitimately lowering charge temps is with meth.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by matty088

And your wrong. The job of an ic isn’t to drop iat. Bc only a complete ignoramus would make that claim. The job of a fmic is to slow the rate at which iat climb as your turbo heats the air. I might have to start ignoring you. All your stuff is out of left field.

Do you know how to read!! I said the purpose of an IC is to cool the charge air under boost so as a result you will also have cooler denser air intake temperatures which also lowers IATs! We both speak English right? You should put me on ignore because you don't read properly and your interpretations of what many folks say here is always incorrect!

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by matty088

FYI. The only time u are legitimately lowering charge temps is with meth.

Its definitely one good way to cool but not the only way and that is not the only use or benefit.

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by matty088

What you are capturing in your analysis is true for any car and therefore isnÂ’t relevant to testing the performance of a fmic. When u go into wot you are basiclsly opening up the movement of air. This causes an immediate drop in iat.
However as you stay into wot and boost youÂ’re going to heat up that air very quickly. If you want a scientific test to measure the performance of a fmic id say stay go into wot at 2500 rpms in 3rd and get into atleast the middle of 6th (assuming you are auto). YouÂ’ll see temps rising for sure. However the ic that shows the least amount of rise is your winner.

IÂ’d be happy to discuss this with you once you get that done or I can share my logs with you. However ceedawg isnÂ’t invited. I am
Joking ceedawg. But yea. YouÂ’re nuts.

Sure, there are more intense ways to test intercooler efficiency but my point was simply that it is definitely worth upgrading intercoolers when cranking up the boost. The stock cooler wasn't engineered to absorb the additional heat from added boost and effectively cool the charge. Checking multi gear pulls isn't even needed to prove this. Proving the inefficiency of the stock cooler at elevated boost isn't difficult. I wanted to show you that it is not "impossible", as you stated, for iat's to drop during a pull. Multi-gear pulls are a different story and you in a way prove your own remark incorrect for there have been test after test proving how inefficient the stock unit is when exceeding stock boost targets. It is inevitable that heat will continue to rise through a wot multi gear pull and there are multiple threads comparing FMIC's that show this but that wasn't my argument. Once again the differences between the stock intercooler and a good aftermarket intercooler are self evident. My intent was to show why I disagree with your "save your money" comment. I'm sorry but I think it is bad advise.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

Sure, there are more intense ways to test intercooler efficiency but my point was simply that it is definitely worth upgrading intercoolers when cranking up the boost. The stock cooler wasn't engineered to absorb the additional heat from added boost and effectively cool the charge. Checking multi gear pulls isn't even needed to prove this. Proving the inefficiency of the stock cooler at elevated boost isn't difficult. I wanted to show you that it is not "impossible", as you stated, for iat's to drop during a pull. Multi-gear pulls are a different story and you in a way prove your own remark incorrect for there have been test after test proving how inefficient the stock unit is when exceeding stock boost targets. It is inevitable that heat will continue to rise through a wot multi gear pull and there are multiple threads comparing FMIC's that show this but that wasn't my argument. Once again the differences between the stock intercooler and a good aftermarket intercooler are self evident. My intent was to show why I disagree with your "save your money" comment. I'm sorry but I think it is bad advise.

It’s more of a reliability mod in this car is my view. I also think the stocker is that bad unless you tracking the car.

Anyways what I said is right. An intercooler isn’t dropping temps unless you make a flawed test where u go wot for a couple thousand Rpms and in which case iat would drop for any ic.

If you go meth then yes you are dropping temps. But an ic, nope

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by matty088

It's more of a reliability mod in this car is my view. I also think the stocker is that bad unless you tracking the car.

Anyways what I said is right. An intercooler isn't dropping temps unless you make a flawed test where u go wot for a couple thousand Rpms and in which case iat would drop for any ic.

If you go meth then yes you are dropping temps. But an ic, nope

Once again, I believe you are giving bad advise and we could be here for a week arguing and twisting words but I refuse to as it isn't productive. It isn't why the forum was started. Moving forward we can agree to disagree on this subject.

[JaredG_F30]

OK let's talk physics. Your statement regarding an "ic can't drop iat" is completely false. In fact, the whole purpose of the IC is to drop IAT. An IC is just a simple heat exchanger. Hot air running through the charged air piping is cooled via ambient air (which is cooler) running past the fins of the intercooler. A more efficient heat exchanger will reduce the charged air temps lower than a less efficient heat exchanger. This is simple thermodynamics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler

Originally Posted by matty088

ThSts impossible. Something is broken with your logging. An ic can’t drop iat. Physics are in the way.