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      06-26-2019, 01:29 PM   #155
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      06-26-2019, 01:57 PM   #156
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I don't think you can gauge the health of plastic guides by looking at them. I mean, how does one know what brittle plastic, which is about to break at any second, looks like? It probably looks just like plastic that will last another 100K. The chain is either stretched, or it isn't -- and the guides are whole one second, and broke another.

Yes, some people have won the lottery and suffered broken guides -- and managed to get it fixed before a piece blocks the oil pick-up and grenades the engine, or the timing chain skips. But other than to see if they've already broken, my guess is that inspecting the guides has very little, if any, value.
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      06-26-2019, 02:55 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsouth View Post
I have made an appointment to get my timing chain and oil chain replaced next Monday at an indy shop. Should I get water pump and oil pump done at the same time (116k miles)?

I plan to keep the car several more years and I do a lot of highway driving. It is cost-effective for me to spend even a few thousand on repairs. I priced trading to a newer 328i without this potential problem, but that would cost me $8-10k, so this repair is much cheaper and will give me peace of mid when I'm on a road trip a thousand miles from home.
Dunno about the oil pump, but you got solid use out of the water pump. Id change it out for sure.
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      06-26-2019, 05:27 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by jsouth View Post
I have made an appointment to get my timing chain and oil chain replaced next Monday at an indy shop. Should I get water pump and oil pump done at the same time (116k miles)?

I plan to keep the car several more years and I do a lot of highway driving. It is cost-effective for me to spend even a few thousand on repairs. I priced trading to a newer 328i without this potential problem, but that would cost me $8-10k, so this repair is much cheaper and will give me peace of mid when I'm on a road trip a thousand miles from home.
It looks like BMW does the oil pump chain and the timing chain, when they fix this.

Full procedure:
https://bmwtechnician.com/2019/01/31...ain-7-70-list/
https://bmwtechnician.files.wordpres...08/image1.jpeg
https://bmwtechnician.files.wordpres.../08/image.jpeg
https://bmwtechnician.files.wordpres...08/image2.jpeg
https://bmwtechnician.files.wordpres...08/image3.jpeg
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Last edited by natesi; 06-26-2019 at 05:35 PM..
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      06-26-2019, 05:39 PM   #159
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PS -- here's a site that allegedly tells you if your particular car is covered under the 7/70 extended warranty.

http://bmw-rp.com/production/bmw/rei...nsf/submit.xsp
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      06-26-2019, 06:15 PM   #160
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Great post! A lot of great info hear! Thanks to all!
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      07-01-2019, 11:20 AM   #161
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Dunno about the oil pump, but you got solid use out of the water pump. Id change it out for sure.
I did find out the water pump is electric and not under the front cover.

They are changing the timing chain and guides as well as the oil pump chain. I pick it up tomorrow.
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      07-02-2019, 01:34 PM   #162
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For those who wonder what gets done here's a invoice of mine getting done:
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      07-02-2019, 01:38 PM   #163
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I also asked the rate of these issues happening and to my surprise its a fair amount from what a Lead Tech and SA told me I think he mentioned 1:150-1:250

I immediately gave them this look like you couldn't be more specific lol
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      07-02-2019, 04:12 PM   #164
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I'm surprised they even told you that. If it's true it doesn't sound like good odds, to me.

I just hope the revised parts actually fix the problem because apparently my car is excluded from the extended warranty (built just 3 months after the cut off period).
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      07-02-2019, 05:44 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by natesi View Post
I'm surprised they even told you that. If it's true it doesn't sound like good odds, to me.

I just hope the revised parts actually fix the problem because apparently my car is excluded from the extended warranty (built just 3 months after the cut off period).
you have the updated timing chain then.

Today I passed the 70k miles on the ODO, i cried a little as im on the original TC and no EW for me.
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      07-02-2019, 06:40 PM   #166
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Yes, but we don't know if the updated timing chain even fixes the issue. These things take years to find out -- BMW didn't make a revision to the n20 timing chain until 2015 -- after the engine had been in production for 4 years! There's even an updated timing chain tensioner, which came out after that -- which my car doesn't have.

Only time will tell.

I think this was a MAJOR fuck up though, on BMWs part. I mean, who is going to buy a car, on the used market, that can self-destruct at any moment? I haven't had the problem, and hopefully won't, but I'm appalled at the measly 7 year / 70K extended warranty. I think that's just unethical -- obviously most failures will be after that and owners will be up-the-creek. The least they could do is 10 years / 120K -- to stand behind their product and take responsibility for their own rushed design and lack-luster testing efforts. No one should expect to have timing chain issues at such low mileage.

Last edited by natesi; 07-02-2019 at 06:49 PM..
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      07-02-2019, 10:27 PM   #167
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Here's a couple videos of people who did some level of documenting their timing chain replacement:



It looks pretty involved. The last video said it took him 40 hours so far, and thousands on tools and parts.
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      07-03-2019, 01:01 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natesi View Post
Yes, but we don't know if the updated timing chain even fixes the issue. These things take years to find out -- BMW didn't make a revision to the n20 timing chain until 2015 -- after the engine had been in production for 4 years! There's even an updated timing chain tensioner, which came out after that -- which my car doesn't have.

Only time will tell.

I think this was a MAJOR fuck up though, on BMWs part. I mean, who is going to buy a car, on the used market, that can self-destruct at any moment? I haven't had the problem, and hopefully won't, but I'm appalled at the measly 7 year / 70K extended warranty. I think that's just unethical -- obviously most failures will be after that and owners will be up-the-creek. The least they could do is 10 years / 120K -- to stand behind their product and take responsibility for their own rushed design and lack-luster testing efforts. No one should expect to have timing chain issues at such low mileage.
I couldn't agree more. From the ratio I stated above it would hurt their bottom line significantly if they offered '10 years / 120K'... I think there philosophy is 'No One Wins'
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      07-03-2019, 03:03 PM   #169
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BNW has one of the highest profit margins in the automotive industry. They can afford to warranty their mistake to 120K, or some other half-reasonable mileage.

Do they want to? Of course not.

BMW probably thought about it and figured: (1) their most profitable customers lease their cars and won't experience this issue -- and (2) the potential loss of future sales due to bad PR and pissed-off owners will not cost more than taking responsibility for their mistake. Plus, this way, (3) the true cost of their mistake is never fully realized on their books. Hence, everyone gets their annual bonus, stock holders are happy, deadlines were met, and everyone looks like a fucking hero after a paltry, and token, 7 year / 70k warranty extension is offered -- which allows BMW to re-assure themselves and pretend they did the right thing. It's a big corporate circle-jerk with no accountability. And it's also a business decision based on what they think will be most profitable in the short and long-run. So, I get all that -- but it is also unethical, IMO.
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      07-05-2019, 07:00 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by natesi View Post
BNW has one of the highest profit margins in the automotive industry. They can afford to warranty their mistake to 120K, or some other half-reasonable mileage.

Do they want to? Of course not.

BMW probably thought about it and figured: (1) their most profitable customers lease their cars and won't experience this issue -- and (2) the potential loss of future sales due to bad PR and pissed-off owners will not cost more than taking responsibility for their mistake. Plus, this way, (3) the true cost of their mistake is never fully realized on their books. Hence, everyone gets their annual bonus, stock holders are happy, deadlines were met, and everyone looks like a fucking hero after a paltry, and token, 7 year / 70k warranty extension is offered -- which allows BMW to re-assure themselves and pretend they did the right thing. It's a big corporate circle-jerk with no accountability. And it's also a business decision based on what they think will be most profitable in the short and long-run. So, I get all that -- but it is also unethical, IMO.
If I run into any more timing chain issues, I gotta fly you out here to be my representative... The attorney banter is strong with this one. I felt I just read a summary of the hit movie "The N20 Expendables" starring BMW's f*ckups
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      08-12-2019, 10:36 AM   #171
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I have 2013 BMW 328I xdrive with 82000 miles on it. It quit running. My independent mechanic tells the engine is toast. Called the BMW dealer that I bought it from used with 40000 miles on it. They pretty much said tough luck. Then I called BMW NA. They sounded like the wanted to help in some way but could not guarantee anything until officially diagnosed by BMW dealer. Since the original dealer is 80 miles away...I had it towed to a local BMW dealer. Then I started doing a ton of research. Apparently, this engine failure could not be avoided by me in any way. Meaning it was going to fail no matter how I treated the car. Obviously, there was the 70,000-mile recall. BMW knew that most of these engines would blow after 70,000 miles. I did some more internet digging...and guess what. There is a huge class-action lawsuit going on! I have spoken with 2 lawyers involved in that lawsuit. They both think BMW is going to settle in the next 30 days or so. Most likely with another extended warranty. I am beyond pissed off at this point. It's my wife's car. Even if BMW were to fix the motor free of charge....I don't think she wants it back. The bad news is that we still owe $14000 dollars on it....yuck! If anyone would like more info...hit me up..I have a good amount of it!
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      08-14-2019, 03:50 PM   #172
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I have 2013 BMW 328I xdrive with 82000 miles on it. It quit running. My independent mechanic tells the engine is toast. Called the BMW dealer that I bought it from used with 40000 miles on it. They pretty much said tough luck. Then I called BMW NA. They sounded like the wanted to help in some way but could not guarantee anything until officially diagnosed by BMW dealer. Since the original dealer is 80 miles away...I had it towed to a local BMW dealer. Then I started doing a ton of research. Apparently, this engine failure could not be avoided by me in any way. Meaning it was going to fail no matter how I treated the car. Obviously, there was the 70,000-mile recall. BMW knew that most of these engines would blow after 70,000 miles. I did some more internet digging...and guess what. There is a huge class-action lawsuit going on! I have spoken with 2 lawyers involved in that lawsuit. They both think BMW is going to settle in the next 30 days or so. Most likely with another extended warranty. I am beyond pissed off at this point. It's my wife's car. Even if BMW were to fix the motor free of charge....I don't think she wants it back. The bad news is that we still owe $14000 dollars on it....yuck! If anyone would like more info...hit me up..I have a good amount of it!

Well just got off the phone with the dealership. The engine is toast and its the timing chain issue. Did I mention the service manager is an absolute jackass! He ripped my wifes head off yesterday for no reason. Anyway, BMW apparently offered $2500 dollars toward the repair. Comical at best! I guess I am waiting things out till the lawsuit is settled. If anyone has any suggestions...I would love to hear them at this point. The repair is 10 grand...I owe 14 grand on it!!! Gonna be one hell of a battle!!!
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      08-14-2019, 07:40 PM   #173
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That blows. Sorry no one has chimed in about your blown engine -- the topic has been beat to death and it's just a shitty situation. BMW has lost a lot of credibility and loyal customers by not holding themselves accountable for their own mistakes. I mean, most timing BELTS will last 82K (as in your case) -- so it's obviously their screw up if timing CHAIN assemblies are going bad in as much time -- grenading the engine.

My engine is allegedly unaffected (with the "revised" parts), but even I'm appalled and at how they are handling this and not sure if I ever want to buy a BMW again -- not sure if I can support a company with such horrifyingly bad moral behavior.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do -- it's a tough decision. Keep us posted.
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      08-14-2019, 07:46 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by natesi View Post
That blows. Sorry no one has chimed in about your blown engine -- the topic has been beat to death and it's just a shitty situation. BMW has lost a lot of credibility and loyal customers by not holding themselves accountable for their own mistakes. I mean, most timing BELTS will last 82K (as in your case) -- so it's obviously their screw up if timing CHAIN assemblies are going bad in as much time -- grenading the engine.

My engine is allegedly unaffected (with the "revised" parts), but even I'm appalled and at how they are handling this and not sure if I ever want to buy a BMW again -- not sure if I can support a company with such horrifyingly bad moral behavior.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do -- it's a tough decision. Keep us posted.
Oh...im gonna fight this if it means I have to learn German and fly to Germany! The service manager involved is a total asshole and worthless! I have filed a complaint with BMW and the store GM. Would you believe when he called today....he did not even apologize? All of this has nothing to do with the dealer....its about BMW NA. Its horrible, and I am not gonna give up!
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      08-14-2019, 08:26 PM   #175
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmac850 View Post
I have 2013 BMW 328I xdrive with 82000 miles on it. It quit running. My independent mechanic tells the engine is toast. Called the BMW dealer that I bought it from used with 40000 miles on it. They pretty much said tough luck. Then I called BMW NA. They sounded like the wanted to help in some way but could not guarantee anything until officially diagnosed by BMW dealer. Since the original dealer is 80 miles away...I had it towed to a local BMW dealer. Then I started doing a ton of research. Apparently, this engine failure could not be avoided by me in any way. Meaning it was going to fail no matter how I treated the car. Obviously, there was the 70,000-mile recall. BMW knew that most of these engines would blow after 70,000 miles. I did some more internet digging...and guess what. There is a huge class-action lawsuit going on! I have spoken with 2 lawyers involved in that lawsuit. They both think BMW is going to settle in the next 30 days or so. Most likely with another extended warranty. I am beyond pissed off at this point. It's my wife's car. Even if BMW were to fix the motor free of charge....I don't think she wants it back. The bad news is that we still owe $14000 dollars on it....yuck! If anyone would like more info...hit me up..I have a good amount of it!

Well just got off the phone with the dealership. The engine is toast and its the timing chain issue. Did I mention the service manager is an absolute jackass! He ripped my wifes head off yesterday for no reason. Anyway, BMW apparently offered $2500 dollars toward the repair. Comical at best! I guess I am waiting things out till the lawsuit is settled. If anyone has any suggestions...I would love to hear them at this point. The repair is 10 grand...I owe 14 grand on it!!! Gonna be one hell of a battle!!!
Sorry about your situation. It really does suck and I hope BMW does the right thing. They obviously know there's an issue and until something really unfortunate happens and the media gets a hold of it, like an entire family dying in a crash because the TC fails on the highway, they probably won't issue a recall. It would cost them way too much money to recall every n20/26 engine. At the end of the day they are a company that really only cares about their bottom line. I have a n26 with the affected TC and I feel like I'm driving a ticking time bomb. I hope BMW does something more than the extended warranty they already issued. I wish you the best and hope everything works out. Please keep us posted.
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      08-14-2019, 09:06 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmac850 View Post
I have 2013 BMW 328I xdrive with 82000 miles on it. It quit running. My independent mechanic tells the engine is toast. Called the BMW dealer that I bought it from used with 40000 miles on it. They pretty much said tough luck. Then I called BMW NA. They sounded like the wanted to help in some way but could not guarantee anything until officially diagnosed by BMW dealer. Since the original dealer is 80 miles away...I had it towed to a local BMW dealer. Then I started doing a ton of research. Apparently, this engine failure could not be avoided by me in any way. Meaning it was going to fail no matter how I treated the car. Obviously, there was the 70,000-mile recall. BMW knew that most of these engines would blow after 70,000 miles. I did some more internet digging...and guess what. There is a huge class-action lawsuit going on! I have spoken with 2 lawyers involved in that lawsuit. They both think BMW is going to settle in the next 30 days or so. Most likely with another extended warranty. I am beyond pissed off at this point. It's my wife's car. Even if BMW were to fix the motor free of charge....I don't think she wants it back. The bad news is that we still owe $14000 dollars on it....yuck! If anyone would like more info...hit me up..I have a good amount of it!
Where'd you find info about the lawsuit? Can you provide a link?
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