[Britton]

I have a 2013 335i and have been having issues with the car stalling around 1/4 tank of fuel. This issue does not always happen but happens more frequently when on longer road trips. There is no warning and the only light that comes on is the transmission malfunction light. I had my LPFP replaced before the issues started by BMW for the recall in 2017 and 20,000 miles later I am stranded on the side of the interstate. BMW towed my car to a dealership who advised me that the full pump was not the issue, it was the built in level sensor that you cannot replace unless you replace the entire fuel tank! They advised me that my car was in fact out of fuel, even though my gauge was reading 1/4 tank. I have since been keeping my car above 1/4 tank but would love to get this fixed once and for all.
Does anyone know how to do a DIY diagnosis to see if it is the fuel level sensor or if its the LPFP. I have accessed the hidden features on my cluster and have been monitoring fuel levels on both sides of the tank but not sure where to go from here. Anyone?

[M248]

Oh man that’s a random problem to have. I might first try verifying that it’s physically empty. Best way to do that would be run it until it stalls. Then count how many gallons it takes to fill to the top. Compare this to the manufacturer tank size specs.

If it’s indeed empty while reading 1/4 full, it may be possible (and less costly) to pay someone to remotely code your car to change the empty and full sensor values. I’m not 100% certain this is possible however. I might make a post asking that question in the coding section of the forum.

[Britton]

Originally Posted by M248

Oh man that’s a random problem to have. I might first try verifying that it’s physically empty. Best way to do that would be run it until it stalls. Then count how many gallons it takes to fill to the top. Compare this to the manufacturer tank size specs.

If it’s indeed empty while reading 1/4 full, it may be possible (and less costly) to pay someone to remotely code your car to change the empty and full sensor values. I’m not 100% certain this is possible however. I might make a post asking that question in the coding section of the forum.

That would be awesome. I also have been looking into coding with esys but haven't came across that. Its weird because the car doesn't stall every time I hit 1/4 tank.

[Britton]

Update: I ran my car this weekend until it stalled. I put in 5 gallons of gas because I was in a hurry and couldn't fill up all the way. Yesterday after burning those 5 gallons up, I filled my car up right before it stalled and could only get a max of 11.2 gallons. Any suggestions? I don't think its the sensor because if it was and it truly was empty, I would have put in around 15 gallons.

[_bdiddyb_]

Britton , had this happened to me last year. Same car: 2013 335i. Stalled on a 3-lane intersection at rush hour. So goddamn embarrassing (all show-but-no-go, you know what i mean?). Gauge showed 1/4 tank full and never dipped below that. No empty cel nor drivetrain error. Had the car towed "home" because i was just 2 blocks away. Dead giveaway that I was empty was the total miles driven: past 325 miles since last fillup. I replaced the lpfp (new model) and also updated i-level since then. The needle does go below 1/4 now but the incident spooked me enough to always refill at 1/4 empty.

[Britton]

Originally Posted by _bdiddyb_

Britton , had this happened to me last year. Same car: 2013 335i. Stalled on a 3-lane intersection at rush hour. So goddamn embarrassing (all show-but-no-go, you know what i mean?). Gauge showed 1/4 tank full and never dipped below that. No empty cel nor drivetrain error. Had the car towed "home" because i was just 2 blocks away. Dead giveaway that I was empty was the total miles driven: past 325 miles since last fillup. I replaced the lpfp (new model) and also updated i-level since then. The needle does go below 1/4 now but the incident spooked me enough to always refill at 1/4 empty.

The crazy thing is the dealership preplaced the LPFP last year. I am trying to get them to replace the one they already replaced. The issues didn't start happening until after the recall. I had mine towed to a dealership after the recall but I believe they are incorrectly diagnosing the issue. If they were right, this last time I stalled, the tank would have been empty. Also, what do you mean by updating the i-level? Any suggestions on what I should do with the dealership?

[Britton]

the car is way out of warranty as well. So if I can prove it is the lpfp then they will replace it at no cost.

[_bdiddyb_]

Don't know what to tell you. Not happy with current dealership, take it to another. I don't trust my local dealer. 1/4 tank (by your measurement) and it still stalls out with supposedly new pump. Bad install / bad part maybe? Going to be tough to prove.
When I installed the pump myself, I made sure all wires/lines were properly zipped tied. New part # is 16117243975, supersedes 16117414482 and 16117297778. Also after the lpfp replacement, I no longer have studder at WOT from 6th gear. "i-level" = software for car's computers. Do you have tools to scan for any error code when the car stalls out?

[Britton]

Originally Posted by _bdiddyb_

Don't know what to tell you. Not happy with current dealership, take it to another. I don't trust my local dealer. 1/4 tank (by your measurement) and it still stalls out with supposedly new pump. Bad install / bad part maybe? Going to be tough to prove.
When I installed the pump myself, I made sure all wires/lines were properly zipped tied. New part # is 16117243975, supersedes 16117414482 and 16117297778. Also after the lpfp replacement, I no longer have studder at WOT from 6th gear. "i-level" = software for car's computers. Do you have tools to scan for any error code when the car stalls out?

The part the dealership replaced is 16117243975. I also did a system reset with the hidden obc functions. I found a thread that said If the system reset is not performed when the lpfp is replaced it can cause issues like what I am experiencing. And currently I do not have anything to check for codes. I am going to purchase an enet cable and download ista+. There was no CEL either, do you know any other way to check for codes?

[Britton]

So my car stalled again last night at 1/2 tank. I threw a CEL and pulled the code P142E? Any suggestions what this code is? There was no description with the code.

[n55david]

Low pressure in high pressure system...

Fuel pump

[Britton]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

Low pressure in high pressure system...

Fuel pump

I'm assuming HPFP?

[n55david]

I would assume so yeah.. So either its bad... or the lpfp is bad and caused the hpfp to go bad...

[TerryGTX]

Originally Posted by Britton

So my car stalled again last night at 1/2 tank. I threw a CEL and pulled the code P142E? Any suggestions what this code is? There was no description with the code.

Did you fix this problem eventually?
My 2014 435Xi and few other friend's 435i s also are having this issue for quite a long time now.
Replaced LPFP and still having this issue. Cleaned fuel lines as well.
It would suddenly lose power and drivetrain malfunction in i-drive. Check for codes. saying HPFP below target threshold. Injection shutdown.

Any feedback is appreciated!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TerryGTX

Did you fix this problem eventually?
My 2014 435Xi and few other friend's 435i s also are having this issue for quite a long time now.
Replaced LPFP and still having this issue. Cleaned fuel lines as well.
It would suddenly lose power and drivetrain malfunction in i-drive. Check for codes. saying HPFP below target threshold. Injection shutdown.

Any feedback is appreciate!

Can you datalog so you can actually look at HPFP pressure vs target?

In theory it could be a fuel supply issue or the HPFP itself. For example even if you replaced LPFP it could be something like EKP, in which case the HPFP might be fine. You could at least inspect your EKP, and/or check it after driving for a while to see if it is getting excessively hot.

Is there any pattern? like it only happens after driving a long time, or only happens during WOT, etc?

[TerryGTX]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Can you datalog so you can actually look at HPFP pressure vs target?

In theory it could be a fuel supply issue or the HPFP itself. For example even if you replaced LPFP it could be something like EKP, in which case the HPFP might be fine. You could at least inspect your EKP, and/or check it after driving for a while to see if it is getting excessively hot.

Is there any pattern? like it only happens after driving a long time, or only happens during WOT, etc?

Thanks for your reply!
Yea so ...I'm also running bm3 OTS stg2 on my n55. My friends have either MHD or bm3 OTS maps. So this can eliminate some of the tune-factors. But I haven't tried with a stock map yet.

And as you know stock n55 has a weak HPFP for stg2 tune and where at high boost, high rpms I would experience around at most around 800psi dips(target deviation), which can be seen in logs. But this usually would not cause the "stall" issue. The stalls could happen either at around 2500 rpms - 3000 rpms normal driving on road trips or WOTs. For my car, the "stall issue" happens randomly when fuel level is below 50% and more frequently below 25% in the fuel gauge.
I've caught it once with MHD logs and checked it was not different than my regular logs—what I saw was sudden HPFP drops for no reason at light throttle at 3000 rpms and since in these logs there's no LPFP value so I can't tell if it's LPFP. I saved the logs in my android phone and I can't find it now. I will try to catch it with logs next time because it's randomly happening when fuel gauge is low.

I'm not sure if it's related to EKPs overheating(which I haven't quite understood the overheating mechanism but I've seen somewhere where people could have stalling issues when EKPs overheated.... and there was indeed one time where I got EKPs error code but just one time—in codes history which I can pull out in my android phone and show you later) , and because this issue happens randomly when fuel level is low in both short 5 minutes trips and long trips, I don't know if EKPs can be overheated within 5 mins driving.

But at high fuel level, this issue never happens... So I don't think it's HPFP just yet...
So far, what I can think of is that .....it can be LPFP, EKPs, fuel filter or tank fuel level sensor. I know there are two fuel level sensors like OP mentioned but I don't want to replace what's not needed before I figure out where the problem comes from.

Since my bud is also having this issue with his 435i, he replaced his LPFP but still having this issue. He also cleaned his fuel lines. Problem comes back again and again at low fuel level. So if it's LPFP or the sensor on LPFP, we can also eliminate that? But now not sure about the sensor on the left fuel tank?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TerryGTX

Thanks for your reply!
Yea so ...I'm also running bm3 OTS stg2 on my n55. My friends have either MHD or bm3 OTS maps. So this can eliminate some of the tune-factors. But I haven't tried with a stock map yet.

And as you know stock n55 has a weak HPFP for stg2 tune and where at high boost, high rpms I would experience around at most around 800psi dips(target deviation), which can be seen in logs. But this usually would not cause the "stall" issue. The stalls could happen either at around 2500 rpms - 3000 rpms normal driving on road trips or WOTs. For my car, the "stall issue" happens randomly when fuel level is below 50% and more frequently below 25% in the fuel gauge.
I've caught it once with MHD logs and checked it was not different than my regular logs—what I saw was sudden HPFP drops for no reason at light throttle at 3000 rpms and since in these logs there's no LPFP value so I can't tell if it's LPFP. I saved the logs in my android phone and I can't find it now. I will try to catch it with logs next time because it's randomly happening when fuel gauge is low.

I'm not sure if it's related to EKPs overheating(which I haven't quite understood the overheating mechanism but I've seen somewhere where people could have stalling issues when EKPs overheated.... and there was indeed one time where I got EKPs error code but just one time—in codes history which I can pull out in my android phone and show you later) , and because this issue happens randomly when fuel level is low in both short 5 minutes trips and long trips, I don't know if EKPs can be overheated within 5 mins driving.

But at high fuel level, this issue never happens... So I don't think it's HPFP just yet...
So far, what I can think of is that .....it can be LPFP, EKPs, fuel filter or tank fuel level sensor. I know there are two fuel level sensors like OP mentioned but I don't want to replace what's not needed before I figure out where the problem comes from.

Since my bud is also having this issue with his 435i, he replaced his LPFP but still having this issue. He also cleaned his fuel lines. Problem comes back again and again at low fuel level. So if it's LPFP or the sensor on LPFP, we can also eliminate that? But now not sure about the sensor on the left fuel tank?

The fuel level correlation is interesting. I actually dont know enough about our fuel tanks though... Based on the shape i think they are a saddle style tank with essentially two distinct compartments, but i dont know if fuel is pumped from one to the other to balance or something like that (would assume so...). It almost sounds like the side where the fuel pump is located is not be 'refilled' with fuel from the other side, so maybe the fuel pump is running dry when you still have fuel in the tank (but in the other side of it).

Do you know how that fuel level balancing works?

I dont think its the fuel level sensor unless its actually reading inaccurately - so if you fill up when it shows half a tank do you actually put a little less than 8 gallons in?

[TerryGTX]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The fuel level correlation is interesting. I actually dont know enough about our fuel tanks though... Based on the shape i think they are a saddle style tank with essentially two distinct compartments, but i dont know if fuel is pumped from one to the other to balance or something like that (would assume so...). It almost sounds like the side where the fuel pump is located is not be 'refilled' with fuel from the other side, so maybe the fuel pump is running dry when you still have fuel in the tank (but in the other side of it).

Do you know how that fuel level balancing works?

I dont think its the fuel level sensor unless its actually reading inaccurately - so if you fill up when it shows half a tank do you actually put a little less than 8 gallons in?

Yea the saddle shape of our tanks is interesting. My bud was able to save his car a couple times from just about to stall by turning steering wheel back and forth to slosh around the fuel.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TerryGTX

Yea the saddle shape of our tanks is interesting. My bud was able to save his car a couple times from just about to stall by turning steering wheel back and forth to slosh around the fuel.

I think that is clear evidence that the problem is a fuel balancing issue between the two different sections of the tank. Now we just need to figure out how the balancing is done to know what the problem is.

[TerryGTX]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I think that is clear evidence that the problem is a fuel balancing issue between the two different sections of the tank. Now we just need to figure out how the balancing is done to know what the problem is.

I've just been looking at this link about saddle-shaped fuel tank (diagram attached)
Look at the "sucking jet pump" but I'm not sure if the sucking jet pump connects the right tank to the left.

<https://www.underhoodservice.com/sad...le-fuel-tanks/>


Also, by looking at parts on Fcpeuro. I came across with this sucking jet pump

<https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...38#description>

Let me know what you think.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TerryGTX

I've just been looking at this link about saddle-shaped fuel tank (diagram attached)
Look at the "sucking jet pump" but I'm not sure if the sucking jet pump connects the right tank to the left.

<https://www.underhoodservice.com/sad...le-fuel-tanks/>


Also, by looking at parts on Fcpeuro. I came across with this sucking jet pump

<https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...38#description>

Let me know what you think.

The concept makes sense based on what i expected but the part you linked just looks like the host under the hood, which is consistent with the review. Can you find anything about an actual pump or means of balancing the fuel level for F3x?

[TerryGTX]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The concept makes sense based on what i expected but the part you linked just looks like the host under the hood, which is consistent with the review. Can you find anything about an actual pump or means of balancing the fuel level for F3x?

yea, on FCPeuro, i was able to find a part in fuel system- it’s called “sucking jet pump” which passively transfers the fuel from driver side to passenger side where the LPFP locates.
So my friend Steve changed his LPFP HPFP and new EKP module...and stil having the same issue. However, there were few time where he was able to slosh the fuel by agreesive left-and-right steering to save the car from stalling.