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      10-20-2018, 03:57 PM   #1
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MHD N55 EWG Stage 1 dyno results are pretty disappointing

Well, I finally pulled the trigger and tuned my EWG RWD 8HP with MHD stage 1 tune. I had great success with the stage 1+ tune on my n54, so figured what the heck, I might as well go with something I know. I was expecting the results to be close to what I achieved on my n54. Both cars were mostly stock with just an upgraded CP, 93 pump gas, and both cars were running pretty much in tip top shape. On the N54, I got roughly 360whp/395wtq. On the F30 it pulled 317whp/347wtq. Needless to say, I pretty disappointed, and am regretting not going with a more aggressive tune. I data logged, and everything seems to be in order, though I'm pretty surprised boost is capped at just 13.5, as it was 18.5 on the n54 platform. Not sure what to think at this point, perhaps MHD needs to release a stage 1+ tune for this platform, since I have no interest in going to a catless DP. I was expecting this thing to do close to stock M2 numbers, it was no where close, as an M2 pulled like 350/360 immediately after my pull.

Here's a datalog:

https://datazap.me/u/thebreeze/f30-n...17-18-19-20-21

Here's the dyno pulls:
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      10-20-2018, 05:36 PM   #2
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edit: but really though, something seems...off
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      10-20-2018, 07:01 PM   #3
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First, comparing n54 (twin turbo) psi numbers to n55 (single turbo) is almost comical.


Are you 100% there was a successful flash? Something seems off.

There was also no baseline done for stock, so this dyno is useless. Please try to do some more research before spreading slanderous information.
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      10-20-2018, 07:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
Well, I finally pulled the trigger and tuned my EWG RWD 8HP with MHD stage 1 tune. I had great success with the stage 1+ tune on my n54, so figured what the heck, I might as well go with something I know. I was expecting the results to be close to what I achieved on my n54. Both cars were mostly stock with just an upgraded CP, 93 pump gas, and both cars were running pretty much in tip top shape. On the N54, I got roughly 360whp/395wtq. On the F30 it pulled a measly 317whp/347wtq. Needless to say, I pretty disappointed, and am regretting not going with a different tune. I data logged, and everything seems to be in order, though I'm pretty surprised boost is capped at just 13.5, as it was 18.5 on the n54 platform. Not sure what to think at this point, perhaps MHD needs to release a stage 1+ tune for this platform, since I have no interest in going to a catless DP. I was expecting this thing to do at least stock M2 numbers, it was no where close, as s stock M2 pulled like 350/360 immediately after my pull.

Here's a datalog:

https://datazap.me/u/thebreeze/f30-n...17-18-19-20-21

Here's the pathetic dyno pulls:
Stock M2 is putting down 350-360 WHP????
you do realize that numbers advertised from BMW are not WHP, right??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty View Post
First, comparing n54 (twin turbo) psi numbers to n55 (single turbo) is almost comical.


Are you 100% there was a successful flash? Something seems off.

There was also no baseline done for stock, so this dyno is useless. Please try to do some more research before spreading slanderous information.
Agreed with no base line dyno numbers you have very little ground to stand on!

Get some stock base dyno numbers and repost your findings.
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      10-20-2018, 08:15 PM   #5
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This just sounds like someone just trying to spread negative press for MHD...... C'mon bro can we get a mod to edit the title or just delete this all together?
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      10-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryo91 View Post
This just sounds like someone just trying to spread negative press for MHD...... C'mon bro can we get a mod to edit the title or just delete this all together?
So you want post based on facts deleted?

Unfortunately the OP does not have a baseline so one doesn’t know what the real gains were.

Regardless, obviously someone (laughingly) thought they would get M2 numbers with a tune.

OP should be applauded for showing reality for his car.

Your attempt to censor because you do not like results is sad.

How about showing us the dyno your MHD tuned Car?
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      10-20-2018, 08:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty View Post
First, comparing n54 (twin turbo) psi numbers to n55 (single turbo) is almost comical.


Are you 100% there was a successful flash? Something seems off.

There was also no baseline done for stock, so this dyno is useless. Please try to do some more research before spreading slanderous information.
Slanderous? I posted a dyno and a log, I didn't just make up a story. How exactly is that slanderous? I'm an experienced bmw enthusiast, not some noob who doesn't know what he's talking about, and I loved the MHD tune on my n54, which is why i opted for this tune as opposed to bm3. Comical? I spent considerable time at the shop this afternoon and looked at all sorts of dyno results on n55 ewg cars, numbers in line with n54 motors are absolutely possible and quite common on ewg motors.

Clearly the tune took hold as is evidenced by the 13.5 psi boost targets. It's quite possible that this stage 1 tune is conservative on purpose. If that's the case, then it should have been marketed that way and I would have purchased the stage 2 tune instead. Clearly it's not as aggressive as the n54 tune, it's down 5 lbs of boost, which is why I suggested Mhd should produce a stage 1+ tune like they have on the n54. 13 psi boost targets are very conservative, and the dyno results bear that out.

I'm not bashing anyone, I'm merely sharing results and providing real data in the hopes this product will be improved. Would you prefer I not post real data so as to not upset anyone? I'm hoping MHD chimes in, because it's obviously to all our benefit to sort this out. I want this tune to work, and I'm sure MHD does as well. So let's stop with the insults and see what happens. Maybe we all learn something along the way. Peace.
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      10-20-2018, 08:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryo91 View Post
This just sounds like someone just trying to spread negative press for MHD...... C'mon bro can we get a mod to edit the title or just delete this all together?
WTF. What could I possibly have to gain by spreading "negative" information? I posted hard data. I was super surprised at these results. They are in fact disappointing. It's why I posted here. I'm hoping there is an explanation, and I'm hoping this can be improved. I'm not down on MHD, I'm a big fan. It's why I plucked down money in this tuning platform.
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      10-20-2018, 08:47 PM   #9
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You posting dyno numbers based on a stage 1 flash are awesome and greatly appreciated.

But for you to say your an enthusiast and expect more boost just because the twin turbo N54 did and claim that MHD is conservative compared to others, I'd like to see more proof to that claim, such as BM3 stage 1 dyno or AA stage 1 dyno ect.

Just because BM3 has a M2 map?? Then why did you not splurge and get the BM3 tune if that's your goal!?

No one should ever be censored for sharing their results but come on man, you insinuating that MHD is slacking and needs to create a stage 1+ makes no sense since they have a stage 2 and stage 2+! You want more boost and power, well your going to need to upgrade your DP and probably your FMIC, plain and simple.

From what others have posted on a stock EWG dyno, I've seen 270ish WHP so if your getting 317WHP, then that's right on par with what MHD claimed for there stage 1 tune for STOCK setups!
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      10-20-2018, 09:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
You posting dyno numbers based on a stage 1 flash are awesome and greatly appreciated.

But for you to say your an enthusiast and expect more boost just because the twin turbo N54 did and claim that MHD is conservative compared to others, I'd like to see more proof to that claim, such as BM3 stage 1 dyno or AA stage 1 dyno ect.

Just because BM3 has a M2 map?? Then why did you not splurge and get the BM3 tune if that's your goal!?

No one should ever be censored for sharing their results but come on man, you insinuating that MHD is slacking and needs to create a stage 1+ makes no sense since they have a stage 2 and stage 2+! You want more boost and power, well your going to need to upgrade your DP and probably your FMIC, plain and simple.

From what others have posted on a stock EWG dyno, I've seen 270ish WHP so if your getting 317WHP, then that's right on par with what MHD claimed for there stage 1 tune for STOCK setups!
I am not insinuating anything. I posted hard data. I choose MHD because I've had great success with it, and Martial and the guys have always been very responsive and helpful. This isn't my first rodeo, I fully expect there will be a resolution. I reached out to mhd on Facebook messenger, I'm sure they will respond Monday, and I will update this thread as we learn more. Relax people, it's not like I called your mothers ugly.
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      10-20-2018, 09:51 PM   #11
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Should have gone BM3 I guess. You basically have the MPPK tune.
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      10-20-2018, 09:58 PM   #12
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      10-21-2018, 05:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
Relax people, it's not like I called your mothers ugly
That last comment made me laugh! Thanks for that... People here are touchy with certain subjects. Its seems to bring out the best in them, kinda like discussing politics

Anyway, you bought a stage one tune with no mods. The single turbo N55 EWG can't really be used to compare to what the twin turbo N54 tuning capabilities are. For many of us here, we're already aware that's it's easier to pull more power out of an N54 vs an N55 (at least when it comes to basic tunes and simple bolt-ons). A baseline run would of given you more data and allowed you to gripe a bit without members jumping down your throat.
All that being said, the figures you laid down are not bad. I know you said you're sticking with your OEM downpipe, but a proper stage 2 ECU tune, downpipe (catted or not), along with a fmic seems to net real gains on this platform.
Look at the bright side, you might have less gains per mod on an N55 EWG/PWG compared to an N54, but the N55 will start and get you to work most days
That's something that can't always be said about the N54
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      10-21-2018, 11:34 AM   #14
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Given how everyone here clearly loves real data, I went out this morning and did a series of logs (12 to be exact) against the stock tune (i restored my backup I took before flashing), and the MHD stage 1 tune, then plugged the results into virtual dyno so I could do comparisons. I created a custom profile specifically for the F30 RWD 335i with 8HP, I used SAE smoothing 5 (same as the dyno results I posted yesterday), and I corrected for temps, barometric pressure (52* and 30.2), and passenger weight. All pulls were done in 4th, DSC fully off, in sport + mode.

My first 4 runs were before I reflashed back to stock, the middle 4 runs were stock, the last 4 runs, I again reflashed back to MHD stage 1. I used the same exact 4 stretches of road for each set of tests, conditions were pretty much identical throughout, results were pretty consistent.

Here are the results:

Stock 278whp/279whp average, 291/286 max, 270/274 min
MHD S1 313whp/319whp average 323/329 max, 300/310 min

Observations:

1. Best numbers and worst numbers achieved with each tune were consistent with the stretch of road used for each pull.
2. Using averages, the net pick up was 35whp/40wtq.
3. HP numbers on VirtualDyno for the stage 1 tune were in line with my experience on the real dynojet yesterday. TQ was less, my guess is this is due to using 5th gear on the dynojet while using 4th for the VD pulls.
4. Before everyone jumps down my throat about the use of VD, I've found to be a very good tool for doing like comparisons. You just have to actually go through the trouble of setting it up properly. Obviously it's not a real dyno, but it's not like I have one of those in my garage. I will continue using this methodology as I work through the process of refining.
5. I went back and double-checked my n54 logs. Max boost was actually 17psi for the 1+ tune, not 18.5 as previously mentioned. I played around with stage 2 for a very brief period, that's where the 18.5 number came from. Just mentioning it to correct the record.
6. I was surprised to see that the stock tune tops out at 9.5psi, I thought it'd be more like 8. The MHD tune is 13.5 as previously mentioned.

Regarding the numbers, I went back and scoured through the MHD flash thread, and found this interesting tidbit posted from MHD themselves:

"We state number at the crank, but measured here in Germany. From experience if you want a WHP Dynojet reference, substract 5% for RWD, or 10% for XDrive."

If you go to MHD website, they state the expected output for an EWG is "up to 370hp/520nm". Using their own guidance, this should equate to 351whp/363wtq. So something clearly does not add up.

Flame away :-)
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      10-21-2018, 12:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post

If you go to MHD website, they state the expected output for an EWG is "up to 370hp/520nm". Using their own guidance, this should equate to 351whp/363wtq. So something clearly does not add up.
This is why I hate these kind of quotes by tuners/sellers/fabricators. It let's them get away with even a minimal gain while advertising a huge gain that maybe they're car shop once got on 116 octane fuel and a bunch of other factors. Technically they gave you what they promised your car is running "UP TO" 370 crank HP. It doesn't say you should expect at least 370hp. Honestly on a completely stock car 317whp is not bad at all for the price. If you feel it isn't enough and you don't want to swap for a DP (I use Fabspeed catted with my MHD S2+ and no CEL and passed emissions test) then just swap Charge pipe and Intercooler and run Stage 2 map which should get you the 350whp and call it a day. You'll definitely notice a difference there.
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      10-21-2018, 01:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seba77W View Post
This is why I hate these kind of quotes by tuners/sellers/fabricators. It let's them get away with even a minimal gain while advertising a huge gain that maybe they're car shop once got on 116 octane fuel and a bunch of other factors. Technically they gave you what they promised your car is running "UP TO" 370 crank HP. It doesn't say you should expect at least 370hp. Honestly on a completely stock car 317whp is not bad at all for the price. If you feel it isn't enough and you don't want to swap for a DP (I use Fabspeed catted with my MHD S2+ and no CEL and passed emissions test) then just swap Charge pipe and Intercooler and run Stage 2 map which should get you the 350whp and call it a day. You'll definitely notice a difference there.
Agreed on going to the base S2 tune, it's what I should have chosen from the get-go. MHD's own guidance on which map to use is inconsistent depending on where you look. In the user guide is says S2 is for HFDP or FMIC, in other places, it says HFDP is required. I'd hate to spend another $100 on the base S2 tune if it's not going to work, I'd be better off spending 200-300 on a custom from Wedge or Twisted and get exactly what I want. I'll just sit tight and wait to hear back from MHD, and then decide what to do once I have a chance to discuss wit them.
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      10-21-2018, 02:20 PM   #17
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For a stage one tune, your numbers seem right. Without anything other than a tune you picked up 35whp/40wtq. How are you upset with this? Comparing to N54 to N55 is completely asinine.
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      10-22-2018, 01:16 AM   #18
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everything's ok looking at the log, you have 151% load at 5500rpm, while stock ewg gives 123% load there, so you shoud roughly have ~22% power increase. Good stage2 gives ~170% at 5500rpm.
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      10-22-2018, 08:35 AM   #19
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Thanks OP!
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      10-22-2018, 11:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
nice gains

edit: but really though, something seems...off
What's up.
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      10-22-2018, 11:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
nice gains

edit: but really though, something seems...off
What's up.
Welcome to where the grass isn't greener lol
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      10-22-2018, 12:09 PM   #22
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1psi = 10whp (+/-) ... an equation by which we live ...
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