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      09-04-2019, 05:58 AM   #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
Emphasis on "OFF THE SHELF". If you want a worry-free tune, specifically made for your vehicle in the conditions you drive in, you're more than welcome to contact the tuner of your choice and pay.

BM3/MHD are doing more than enough by offering the unlocking of your DME for the price they do. The maps, even at $50 or $100 for the bundle, is an absolute steal. Not to mention they provide logging, you can check codes, turn off ASD, and a plethora of other options right from your phone.

Example: Android device vs an iPhone. Most Android phones are put together with off the shelf parts from different vendors. The result? The hardware/software is less optimized, more bugs, and a less polished experience (not talking about Android vs iOS).
iPhones are designed to work together from hardware and software point, nearly from the ground up. The result? A polished, cohesive experience, with less bugs and more optimization.

Ever built a PC? Same thing. It's never going to be as good as a custom, complete solution.
Hell, even a stock car. How do you know your car isn't pulling timing on the OEM tune? There are countless threads of people driving their cars into the ground until it finally throws a drivetrain error. At least with BM3 you can run your own logs and get ahead of any potential issues.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      09-04-2019, 06:55 AM   #1058
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You are looking at it wrong an OTS product should work for everyone just fine. If you want ultimate performance specific for your car etc then you need an individual tune (not the other way around). Why would a 93 OTS tune constantly pull ignition on 93 etc. These are not complete files they are providing a starting point for a tuner and/or individual who likes to tinker (log etc.) it is by no means a set and forget software
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      09-04-2019, 08:14 AM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
You are looking at it wrong an OTS product should work for everyone just fine. If you want ultimate performance specific for your car etc then you need an individual tune (not the other way around). Why would a 93 OTS tune constantly pull ignition on 93 etc. These are not complete files they are providing a starting point for a tuner and/or individual who likes to tinker (log etc.) it is by no means a set and forget software
They cannot guarantee it will work 100% for everyone because they do not get logs/feedback from everyone. They are constantly updating the maps as people provide more feedback but you can't make a dialed in map without it. The OTS tune will work with the majority. It'll never respond the same when my car has 10k miles and others have 100k+. Some people have different intakes, some people have different fuel quality and ambient conditions, etc. They can't compensate for everything. There are too many variables.

And again, you deal with the same thing on the stock tune. Our cars run more effiently on 93 because it's above the minimum octane rating. Running Cali 91 will make less power, less gas mileage, and pull the same timing that it does on the BM3 tune. Except PTF made a new map to compensate for the crappy gas. When will BMW do that?

I ran logs just for peace of mind and had no timing issues until recently. There are plenty of people that their logs are clean. But it's your responsibility to verify it's good, just like with any other aftermarket part you install. It requires attention and maintenance.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      09-04-2019, 10:24 AM   #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
You are looking at it wrong an OTS product should work for everyone just fine. If you want ultimate performance specific for your car etc then you need an individual tune (not the other way around). Why would a 93 OTS tune constantly pull ignition on 93 etc. These are not complete files they are providing a starting point for a tuner and/or individual who likes to tinker (log etc.) it is by no means a set and forget software
That would work if every car was in a climate controlled bubble that had the same ambient settings, and every single car had the engine made absolutely identical....but that's impossible. Every car is different, every engine is different, and every environment is different.

OTS maps do exactly what they're intended to do....they give you an off-the-shelf tune that will work well for every car. They're not perfect tunes designed to squeeze every bit of hp/tq out of the car, that's not safe. They're usually on the conservative side for that very reason. That's also the reason there are constant revisions to each OTS file. If you want a "perfect" tune, you need an individual one for YOUR car....but even that will vary depending on the environment your car is in on any given day.
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      09-04-2019, 10:30 AM   #1061
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While I understand that the effect vary by temperature etc and that the ECU adapt I think that “you should regap “ shouldn’t be needed to a OTS tune and be reserved for custom/more aggressive solutions. Same with logging ... you can’t expect a normal customer to log data and maybe even pay extra for being able to do so. Sometimes the tunes read as if they are in a Beta stage .....
Oh well I don’t have to get them until all problems are shaken out
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      09-04-2019, 11:00 AM   #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
While I understand that the effect vary by temperature etc and that the ECU adapt I think that “you should regap “ shouldn’t be needed to a OTS tune and be reserved for custom/more aggressive solutions. Same with logging ... you can’t expect a normal customer to log data and maybe even pay extra for being able to do so. Sometimes the tunes read as if they are in a Beta stage .....
Oh well I don’t have to get them until all problems are shaken out
Re-gapping plugs is a car-specific problem though, whether it's an OTS map or a custom individual map, if a car needs new plugs or to have them re-gapped....then that's what has to happen. No tune can fix or correct that haha

I've had Stage 1 93 on my car since the week PTF released it and I've had no issues with my plugs (and I'm at 22k miles). Others like kern have had to adjust theirs with way less mileage. It 100% depends on the car....brand new, broken-in, or high mileage....doesn't matter. No OTS map will ever be able to take that into account, and they're not intended to. Their intent is a "fit for all purpose", which is never perfect.
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      09-04-2019, 11:47 AM   #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricVR4 View Post
Re-gapping plugs is a car-specific problem though, whether it's an OTS map or a custom individual map, if a car needs new plugs or to have them re-gapped....then that's what has to happen. No tune can fix or correct that haha

I've had Stage 1 93 on my car since the week PTF released it and I've had no issues with my plugs (and I'm at 22k miles). Others like kern have had to adjust theirs with way less mileage. It 100% depends on the car....brand new, broken-in, or high mileage....doesn't matter. No OTS map will ever be able to take that into account, and they're not intended to. Their intent is a "fit for all purpose", which is never perfect.
I'd change them around 25k if I were you. I installed the JB4 at 1200 miles and started getting misfires right around 26-27k. Replaced with OEM stock gap @ 28k.
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      09-04-2019, 11:55 AM   #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B58togo View Post
I'd change them around 25k if I were you. I installed the JB4 at 1200 miles and started getting misfires right around 26-27k. Replaced with OEM stock gap @ 28k.
Yeah it's been on my radar for the last couple of months, but I decided that I like the way the market looks for the M3 ZCP so I've been shopping those. I'll be trading in the 340 once I find one, haha
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      09-04-2019, 12:37 PM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
While I understand that the effect vary by temperature etc and that the ECU adapt I think that “you should regap “ shouldn’t be needed to a OTS tune and be reserved for custom/more aggressive solutions. Same with logging ... you can’t expect a normal customer to log data and maybe even pay extra for being able to do so. Sometimes the tunes read as if they are in a Beta stage .....
Oh well I don’t have to get them until all problems are shaken out
Like EricVR4 i didn't have to gap my plugs until v2.0. It's not required, but it helps. Just like getting high quality gas is better than others. They can recommend it, but you don't have to. Your car will pull some timing to adjust and you won't make as much power as you should.

I don't think you understand fully how the tune works in stock or modified form based on your concerns. Your car is pulling timing right now in certain situations and you don't know it. Hot days, bad rounds of gas, clogged intake filters, etc. all are a part of the daily routine that affect how your car operates with the same tune. Not to mention adapting it across 1000s of vehicles across the world.

Your car does a lot of the logging for you and changes parameters on it's own. All PTF did was allow you to see more of what's going on when you want. If you never want to log, you don't have to. Most of what you see is not going to blow your engine. You're getting feedback from enthusiasts that want to go the extra mile to make sure everything is purring as perfectly as possible, as often as possible.

You'll never see a tune with "all the bugs worked out" stock or otherwise. I mean, hell, our cars run 14AFR to redline in stock form. That's ridiculously high. But BMW is more concerned with efficiency and gas mileage, not power.
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Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      09-04-2019, 01:21 PM   #1066
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I totally understands how an ECU works, but some of the tunes on the market today look like BETA versions / pre-release versions / ... to me as I think a) the tuners rushed to get them out once the ECU was cracked and b) seem to be into the "my gains are higher than yours" game and c) listening/waiting for user feedback/logs to finalize the product.
BMW is certainly not worried that an AF of 14 might not be optimal for power. They decided on the power level the car should have (distance to M3 etc.) and the car always reaches the goal, so why go for more power. The only problem with AF14 is temperatures/running lean but I'm sure they tested this for reliability.
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      09-04-2019, 07:17 PM   #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
I totally understands how an ECU works, but some of the tunes on the market today look like BETA versions / pre-release versions / ... to me as I think a) the tuners rushed to get them out once the ECU was cracked and b) seem to be into the "my gains are higher than yours" game and c) listening/waiting for user feedback/logs to finalize the product.
BMW is certainly not worried that an AF of 14 might not be optimal for power. They decided on the power level the car should have (distance to M3 etc.) and the car always reaches the goal, so why go for more power. The only problem with AF14 is temperatures/running lean but I'm sure they tested this for reliability.
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Guess what. Every time you go to the dealer and they complete a recall/programming update, it's the same thing. You can never predict everything that will be experienced in the field. You guys are expecting too much from a tuning platform.
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Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      09-04-2019, 09:20 PM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
I totally understands how an ECU works, but some of the tunes on the market today look like BETA versions / pre-release versions / ... to me as I think a) the tuners rushed to get them out once the ECU was cracked and b) seem to be into the "my gains are higher than yours" game and c) listening/waiting for user feedback/logs to finalize the product.
BMW is certainly not worried that an AF of 14 might not be optimal for power. They decided on the power level the car should have (distance to M3 etc.) and the car always reaches the goal, so why go for more power. The only problem with AF14 is temperatures/running lean but I'm sure they tested this for reliability.
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How can you be this dense?
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      09-05-2019, 06:49 AM   #1069
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How can you be this dense?
Now resorting to personal attacks .... grow up. Not everyone has to agree with you. It's a free country last time I checked.

Last edited by marcthedark; 09-05-2019 at 08:20 AM..
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      09-05-2019, 08:20 AM   #1070
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Forgot to post in here, but I started a log review thread. I just want to compile as much data as possible so we can have some good data visible to everyone. It's not limited to BM3 but I am focusing on OTS tunes since custom tunes add a lot more variation. Feel free to post up and join the discussion.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1648722
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Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      09-05-2019, 04:54 PM   #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
Now resorting to personal attacks .... grow up. Not everyone has to agree with you. It's a free country last time I checked.
Yes it's a free country, and you are allowed to say whatever you say. However, that doesn't make you free of criticism.
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      09-09-2019, 01:26 PM   #1072
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UPDATE: A90 Toyota Supra support is now out. The rest of the B58T0 line up such as the M340i, Z4 M40i and other MG1 Aurix based DME vehicles to follow very soon.

https://www.protuningfreaks.com/blog...lXorApXzinMcfI
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      09-09-2019, 02:54 PM   #1073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks View Post
UPDATE: A90 Toyota Supra support is now out. The rest of the B58T0 line up such as the M340i, Z4 M40i and other MG1 Aurix based DME vehicles to follow very soon.

https://www.protuningfreaks.com/blog...lXorApXzinMcfI
Are you aware of the manual transmission torque delay? I feel like my car artificially limits throttle input in the immediate moments after shifting gears (most felt in 1-2 and 2-3 shifts). Is there any way to tune this out? MHD had a solution on the N54 platform, wondering if this is something on your radar. Would be greatly apprecaited
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      09-10-2019, 06:25 AM   #1074
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I saw someone post this somewhere random and it was just because of burble having to do stuff. Try turning off burble on the map and reflash and see. I don’t have this issue and I have a manual as well.
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      09-10-2019, 02:08 PM   #1075
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I saw someone post this somewhere random and it was just because of burble having to do stuff. Try turning off burble on the map and reflash and see. I don’t have this issue and I have a manual as well.
I'm actually stock currently, shopping around for tunes. Wondering if the BM3 has this already built in, since you don't feel it? Did you feel it when you were stock?
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      09-10-2019, 06:40 PM   #1076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
I saw someone post this somewhere random and it was just because of burble having to do stuff. Try turning off burble on the map and reflash and see. I don’t have this issue and I have a manual as well.
Cool .. I will try it. TBH I'm getting kind of sick of the burble anyway, it draws attention.

I have the this kind of bog between shifts rarely, actually I felt it twice yesterday. I also have rev hang between gears more often. I wonder if the on decel aspect of the burble mixes up the throttle somehow .. could be related. I'll kill it tonight and report back in a couple days.
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      09-12-2019, 08:15 AM   #1077
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Ran another Stage 1 e30 log, this time the mix is closer to e35/e40. I'm still seeing some timing pull on cyl 1.

I'm going to do a leakdown test soon to see if my headgasket is good. If that's the source of my coolant loss and i'm just getting some coolant in cyl 1 that's messing up the octane, then that'll be two birds with one stone (since BMW refuses to diagnose my coolant loss). Going to message PTF support as well to see if they give a recommendation other than running the ACN map

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7a241ec090c677bd368625

The car still pulls hard. I like comparisons so I raced a buddy this weekend and pulled on him pretty hard. His 435 is xdrive/8AT/Stg 2 E30 vs my RWD/6MT/Stage 1 E30. Pretty cool to see how the performance compares but I'm looking for a RWD N55 for a better idea.
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      09-14-2019, 01:28 PM   #1078
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Are you guys pumping 4 or 5 gallons of E85 to a full tank of pump to make a E30 blend?
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