[iwannabimmer]

Sounds like both manuals suck. Good, because I'm not interested in manuals. The Caddy looks better inside and out. Its dynamics look to rival the F30s according to this review (and others).

At these prices (as tested - $50,845 vs $45,910) I would take the ATS, even though I like both cars.

[rallycobra]

At 2:27 in the video he says the Caddy is slow because you have to pull 4th gear at 55mph. What the ????

[SoCali E36]

Originally Posted by svache

Identical.. who cares.. the ATS is ugly as hell, nuff said :P

The new 3 is not much of a looker either if you ask me.

[jeremicium]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

I don't think Cadillac ever made a good car did they? In fact has the USA ever produced a good car?

Daggers

We've had some rough years in the American auto industry, but i'd venture to say we've created a few worthy autos over the years.

Brits love to hate on American cars, maybe we need to divert our efforts from creating the best killing machines in the world to creating the best cars. That should be celebrated by all.

Agree the caddy is kind of ugly, but i'm rooting for them to create something that represents American auto engenuity.

[Btyler227]

I think a comparison of the automatics are more realistic. In which case the 328i would have stood out even more, I think. I had a F30 328i sport with a manual. It was a fun car to drive. But I love my 335i M Sport with its 8-speed. That's a fantastic transmission. What's sad is the ATS is brand new and stands a better chance against the 3 than competitors that have tried for many years. It's as though they gave up trying.

[JoeyO]

This reviewer doesn't make sense. He says the Cadillac is "fun to drive" and then in the next sentence says its transmission "is a dog". How can it be fun to drive if it's transmission is a dog?

Plus, he says the BMW wins by forfeiture of the Cadillac's transmission. Well, isn't the transmission an important part of any car? If the Cadillac sucks, then say it sucks. It's almost like he wants the Cadillac to win.

[PGT]

they love to hate on American cars because they're jealous we still have some automakers left (unlike them).

As for pooping on Chrysler, I traded a 2010 Mercedes E550 in on a 2012 Chrysler 300C SRT8 and have no regrets. Faster, handles better, has at least as much tech content, etc. It's a considerable bargain, if you're not a brand snob. It's based on a W211 E Class so its no surprise its quite good.

a bit OT, but this video definitely got me into the dealer for a look...

[rxander]

Originally Posted by SoCali E90

The new 3 is not much of a looker either if you ask me.

New f30 looks way better than the old/played outdated e90.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by SoCali E90

The new 3 is not much of a looker either if you ask me.

It's gotta be an M Sport. By far the best looking 3

[Karazy]

Interesting comments about both manuals... I've driven two late model Porsches with m/t's, a 911 Carerra and a Cayman S, and their m/t's felt waaaay smoother than my E92 335. Clutch engagement & shift lever were far superior. I just can't bring myself to buying a auto.

[Alpine F31]

He never elaborated on why the manual in the 328i was "meh" in his opinion.

[bizzyqu]

Test drove the 3.6 ats yesterday, decent car, underwhelming compared to the F30 335i. Power is there, handles good, nice breaks, but it looks pretty bland in person, and the all-touch nav/radio/ac/etc has nothing on idrive. Cadillac took a 3 series and made a copy but at the end of the day do you want the copy or the real deal? (I am jealous of the carbon fiber trim option though)

[Mako]

Originally Posted by iwannabimmer

Sounds like both manuals suck. Good, because I'm not interested in manuals. The Caddy looks better inside and out. Its dynamics look to rival the F30s according to this review (and others).

At these prices (as tested - $50,845 vs $45,910) I would take the ATS, even though I like both cars.

yeah but what is included for those prices? their starting prices are identical!

[Mako]

So does BMW under rate the power on their cars so they can claim they are faster than the competition while using less power? Like in this comparison, they can say they are 0.5 seconds faster 0-60 while using 32 less horsepower... makes the BMW engine look amazing even though on the Dyno they probably output the same power.

Is the ATS using the same ZF 8 speed transmission as the 3 series? would love to see the automatic comparison.

[DrivenByE30]

As you know, i am an F30 335i manual car owner, (and of course have never driven the ATS)

BUt I would have to admit that the ATS, in my humble opinion and contrarily to the video here, has won this head to head by a hair.

** Yes Styling-wise, ATS is sharper. ATS wins.

** Yes suspension, i would say ATS wins too, because what can beat this Magna-ride??
BMW suspension is excellent as always... but here, it just cannot compete.

** ENGINE: both cars are even

** Product Quality: i would say both are even. By the look of it, BMW and Cadillac has done a wonderful job at putting luxury in this segment... not the best because honestly, Audi quality is TOP, together with the Japanese. BMW and Merc, and Cadillac still have rooms for improvement in their material usage.

** Yes ATS manual transmission sucks compared to the BMW (IMHO) very good manual transmission as always ( having own and driven 3 series cars since the E30, E36, E46) The F30 manual transmission is nothing less than very good too. Having said that Auto transmission is what MOST if not everyone will buy, and in department, the ATS has yet to prove itself... BUT the F30 sport auto transmission is STALLAR GOOD, scratch that.... IT IS EXCELLENT if not THE VERY BEST auto transmission in the industry. So Transmission: i would say BMW wins for both manual and automatic.


Scores based solely on the above 5 point total:
ATS: 4/5
BMW: 3/5

If it wasn't for the transmission, Cadillac would be the clear winner here.
and that's coming from an F30 335i owner.

Originally Posted by wayman519

BMW doesn't make a good manual transmission? What the hell is motortrend smoking? I am pretty sure the 3 series is considered having some of the top manuals around. I must say the ATS is one of GM's smarter moves.

The reviewer here doesn't know what he is talking about...

The 3 series has the best manual transmission in this category, PERIOD.
It can be improved yes, i agree, BUT no one has got it right and better than BMW here. Especially that new 8-speed automatic transmission!


But as Mako pointed out, does Cadillac use the same 8AT as BMW ? or is it another one ?

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Love to see Cadillac be able to effect it's horrible resale value.

A issue that is to hard to overlook or overcome.

Sorry but you shouldn't ride on old worn-out misconception,
I love BMW myself, but trying to be realistic,
i would have to admit that the resale value for the ATS will not be that of Cadillac of yore... The ATS has tremendously improve in that department too...

so dont get yourself fool... Cadillac is punching hard at BMW and other car makers in this segment... for the first time... Bravo GM, you are finally learning.

Originally Posted by svache

Identical.. who cares.. the ATS is ugly as hell, nuff said :P

Aloha, Long time no see you around here SVache?! How are you doin man !

I have to disagree with you here: I love our 3-series F30 BMWs yes,
BUT
DARN IT, that ATS physics is so damn sexy .... there i said it !!

Originally Posted by iwannabimmer

Sounds like both manuals suck. Good, because I'm not interested in manuals. The Caddy looks better inside and out. Its dynamics look to rival the F30s according to this review (and others).

At these prices (as tested - $50,845 vs $45,910) I would take the ATS, even though I like both cars.

SORRY only GM manual transmission sucks!
BMW manual transmission is the same as it has always been, VERY GOOD!

AND IF you want to compare Auto Transmission, which i do too,
My guess is that BMW 8AT would still Spanks THE ats auto trans.

The Caddy does looks better inside out... i give you that...
But the BMW is not doing so bad either... in terms of esthetic:
I have noticed that BMW's 3 series design, when first release, always looks a bit dated compared to the competition, BUT its design somehow becomes timeless as time goes by....

i am not sure if you guys are understanding what i am trying to say or even agree with me, but what i am saying is: BMW 3series design is more beautiful to look at as time goes on, and you just learn to love it more and more each day... which can hardly be said for other cars... 3 series esthetic and good physics last longer.

Originally Posted by Btyler227

I think a comparison of the automatics are more realistic. In which case the 328i would have stood out even more, I think. I had a F30 328i sport with a manual. It was a fun car to drive. But I love my 335i M Sport with its 8-speed. That's a fantastic transmission. What's sad is the ATS is brand new and stands a better chance against the 3 than competitors that have tried for many years. It's as though they gave up trying.

I agree with you... Auto or Manual, the 3 series beat the ATS.

BUT the ATS has now become the best 3 series contender...
it used to be the Merc C-class 20 years earlier
it used to be the Audi A4 15 years earlier
it used to be the Lexus IS 10 years earlier
it used to be the Infiniti G35/37 5 years earlier
it was the A4 before the ATS came along...

But the 3 series is still standing fighting... the referee has not yet counted until 10 guys

BMW still throwing out hard punches.... NOT yet defeated

Originally Posted by JoeyO

This reviewer doesn't make sense. He says the Cadillac is "fun to drive" and then in the next sentence says its transmission "is a dog". How can it be fun to drive if it's transmission is a dog?

Plus, he says the BMW wins by forfeiture of the Cadillac's transmission. Well, isn't the transmission an important part of any car? If the Cadillac sucks, then say it sucks. It's almost like he wants the Cadillac to win.

Of course he wanted the Cadillac to win
Everyone wants the Cadillac to win
Even I want the Cadillac to win
Because everyone is so tired of seeing the 3 series kicking everyone's butt years after years for the past/last 25 years! Damn it!

But simply put: the 3 is still keeping its medal, if ATS wants it, it better yank it out of BMW's neck.
But Audi is coming up with a better A4, Infiniti is about to release their new G37 next year...

This is only another battle for the BMW, the war continues


To sum up:

the two cars are practically the same,
The BMW edges out on the transmission (both Manual and ESPECIALLY AUTO transmission)
The Cadillac edges out on the suspension/ride quality due to its magna-ride.

so there you go:

Which would you prefer:
a better ride quality or a better transmission shift?

Please start putting your bet now:

My guess is that most people would go for the Better ride quality because who really notices the subtle transmission difference?

Personally i would still pick transmission since i am an unconditional manual driver and am starting to be in love with BMW automatic transmission.

and as Bizzyqu point it out: i would rather have the real deal over the better deal...

[cantona7]

The ATS tranny is different—6-speed auto, I believe. It's an interesting car, I suppose. Don't mind the looks that much, and the chassis and magnetic suspension sound very appealing. But the gearing in that tranny sounds absurd...4th gear at 55?!?

That said, I have to agree with the reviewer's comment about BMW manuals. But he would have done himself a favor if he simpler specified that it's the FEEL of the shifter that sucks. The transmissions have always been very good, but they feel like crap. Every BMW I've ever owned has been a manual and they've all, to one degree or other, felt awful to shift: Notchy, rubbery at times, long throws, etc. My list includes an E30 325is, E46 330Ci and E46M3, Z4 and E24 M6. Of those, the Z4 had the best feeling shifter. I've never understood why this is, because the shifter in the Mini is wonderful out of the box.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by bizzyqu

Test drove the 3.6 ats yesterday, decent car, underwhelming compared to the F30 335i. Power is there, handles good, nice breaks, but it looks pretty bland in person, and the all-touch nav/radio/ac/etc has nothing on idrive. Cadillac took a 3 series and made a copy but at the end of the day do you want the copy or the real deal? (I am jealous of the carbon fiber trim option though)

And why was it underwhelming? All you said was that it looked bland in person (so does the 335i) and that you don't like the all touch screen (which more manufacturers are going towards). And doesn't it have more hp than the 335i (on paper)?

[GMW]

Originally Posted by wayman519

BMW doesn't make a good manual transmission? What the hell is motortrend smoking? I am pretty sure the 3 series is considered having some of the top manuals around. I must say the ATS is one of GM's smarter moves.

+1

[AllydNYC]

I'm not going to go on a whole rant, I'll just say I'm not a fan of this guys reviews. Though I do think what GM has done to this car is great!

[wcinvest]

Originally Posted by SoCali E90

The new 3 is not much of a looker either if you ask me.

I agree but overall it still appears to be an excellent sedan. I looked into buying the 1 series coupe, 3 series sedan(F30 and even e90) and X1. The price of all 3 of the newer vehicles via ED wasn't that different so that pretty much was a non factor. I actually like the looks of the 3 series the best of those 3 vehicles but that was damning with faint praise since I really don't like the how the headlights blend in with the kidney grill at all. Maybe other people like that design element but I really don't.

And frankly the 3 series is now so long, it simply no longer looks like the 3 series that really established its reputation.

I ended up buying the X1 for practical reasons(easier to park in my situation and can carry more cargo) which I admit won't win any beauty contests. The new Mercedes C series looks much more like how either the 1 series or 3 series should look. I even likes the front of the Infinit G37, Buick Regal, Volvo C30, or Lexus IS more then the front of the 3 series sedan. The front of the 1 series looks okay but other areas of the exterior could have been better executed.

All that being said for a midsize family sedan with sportiness, the 3 series still competes extremely well in its category. Once your inside any of these cars, you don't notice the looks and I do think the new 3 series interior looks better then the old interior even if some of the plastics may not be as high quality.

[rdollie]

If anybody here think's BMW's manuals are great I'd suggest you spend some time with a Honda manual and report back to us with your updated impression of BMW's manual feel.

[Small Yellow]

Did he say the ATS has to pull 4th gear right at 55mph? wtf? @ 2:26