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      12-27-2016, 03:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
And where did I say otherwise? exactly, nowhere.
In fact, porsche was at one time building 5 different models at the same time:
911/924/928/944 and 959.
But the thing is, they were all sportscars.
That porsche already did a lot of work together with VW/audi has always been a fact and no secret.
Some would argue that the 928 was a GT, not a sports car. Including me. Also, don't forget Porsche Design and Piech. Porsche was already somewhat diversified when it became an AG in the early 1970s.

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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
All fine and dandy, but have you read the leftlane story?
VAG/Porsche themselves said that the Cayenne/panamera didnt fit the porsche theme. Yes, they themselves. So if you're contradicting someone (not really clear to me at this point), you're trying to contradict porsche/VAG.
I wasn't necessarily contradicting you personally; I was contradicting popular Porsche-think that the company's always focused on sports cars. What the company's actually always focused on is sporty cars with a certain performance threshold and aesthetic. In that way, I can see Porsche denying what the Cayenne was since it had VW and Audi variants, and what the Panamera was because it had four doors. But both are, now, proper Porsches -- and both represent good branding futurethink irrespective of the genesis of the models themselves.

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Are you talking to me?
(I'm in the corner that says the new 718 should have been named 914 )
Absolutely not; sorry if my tirade insinuated otherwise!

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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Why would alfa be jumping more on the bandwagon than porsche?
Alfa, a company that has always directed themselves toward cars for the masses, people carriers (certainly after the 50's), orienting mostly on sedans and hatchbacks with a flavour of sportivity (like bmw), instead of porsche always having made sportscars.
Alfa is the brand that's most like BMW in that way. Its imho even pretty astounding that alfa waited this long, but the 9 year recession has probably paid part in that as alfa said 7 or 8 years ago that the wouldnt develop new models as long as there was a recession. (maybe we in europe have a different conception of the brand alfa than you americans as we see every model alfa makes. Here an alfa is generally a common faily cheap car.)
I absolutely agree 100 percent, except for:
- Alfa's corporate parenting, which is a large part of why the company's lacked product focus over the years beyond the 'great sportiness and design for the masses' aesthetic. Too often it's tried to make something that it has no brand investment in.
- The fact that Alfa's development of the Stelvio has one end game: the U.S. market.
- For Alfa, the U.S. market is the antithesis of what it is for both Porsche and BMW: markets that have been successes to the point of dictating both's product lines at times, for good and for bad. All Alfa wants is a piece of what it's never been able to get, and there's only one reason for that: Fiat Chrysler, a merging of two of auto-dom's most unpredictable brands. As good as the Giulia Q seems to be, I'm not giving Alfa a chance in hell of making inroads in this market because of how good FCA is at screwing with a product line.
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      12-27-2016, 03:34 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Some would argue that the 928 was a GT, not a sports car. Including me. Also, don't forget Porsche Design and Piech. Porsche was already somewhat diversified when it became an AG in the early 1970s.


What the company's actually always focused on is sporty cars
So my statement is incorrect because the 928 is arguably more a gt than a sportscar and porsche makes sporty cars and not sportscars?
To me, that is all sportscars but here we even call a miata a small sportscar.
You know what we dont call a sportscar? a big ass SUV, thats for sure.
Sorry to say, but your argument here is classic potato patato.

Quote:
- Alfa's corporate parenting, which is a large part of why the company's lacked product focus over the years beyond the 'great sportiness and design for the masses' aesthetic. Too often it's tried to make something that it has no brand investment in.
Can you name a few examples? Not sure what you mean. Whats alfas brand investment? what did they make where they had no brand investment in (ok, I give you the arna!). I'm quite familiar with all alfa models (as they are very common and have had loads of friends owning them..) but I dont know what specifics you hit at.

Quote:
- The fact that Alfa's development of the Stelvio has one end game: the U.S. market.
They hope for big sales in the US of course, but it is also sold in europe and not forget China, as a first together with the giulia. So not quite the 'fact' you say imho. they have a more global sceme than you think imho.

Quote:
- For Alfa, the U.S. market is the antithesis of what it is for both Porsche and BMW: markets that have been successes to the point of dictating both's product lines at times, for good and for bad.
dictate product lines? Both bmw and porsche sell more cars in europe than in the Us I think? (bmw sells as much vehicles annually in germany and the UK alone as in the US). So I think the world is a bit bigger than in your view.
Also we get from both BMW and Porsche more models or engines than you get in the US. Its not the other way around.
So when did the US dictate the product lines of BMW and Porsche exactly?

Quote:
All Alfa wants is a piece of what it's never been able to get, and there's only one reason for that: Fiat Chrysler, a merging of two of auto-dom's most unpredictable brands. As good as the Giulia Q seems to be, I'm not giving Alfa a chance in hell of making inroads in this market because of how good FCA is at screwing with a product line.
Of course alfa wont succeed completely in the US like porsche or bmw or Mercedes. Its Alfa. Somewhere down the line there will be a huge management mistake. We in europe know this for decades. Its alfa. Its what they do. FCA's bread and butter is making small automobiles that are sold in huge numbers in southern europe. Alfa only partly fits that profile thats why it has been struggling since the 60's
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      12-27-2016, 04:55 PM   #47
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The Macan S and Turbo are the best DDs out there if you don't need a ton of storage.
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      12-27-2016, 05:09 PM   #48
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The Macan S and Turbo are the best DDs out there if you don't need a ton of storage.
Yeah. So far my biggest gripe with Porsche is they go even further with options lol. Like everything is an option and that is hyper expensive (-.-)

I mean European are known to gouge you with options but Porsche is way worse than BMW. lol
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      12-27-2016, 10:28 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Yeah. So far my biggest gripe with Porsche is they go even further with options lol. Like everything is an option and that is hyper expensive (-.-)

I mean European are known to gouge you with options but Porsche is way worse than BMW. lol
As silly as it sounds, that's why Porsche has that exclusive appeal. If you told me you spent close to $1,000 on a leather covered rearview mirror housing, I'd call you a chump. Yet others will come up to you and say it's 'beautiful'.

If Porsche priced their options reasonably it would only make them more ubiquitous. And at the risk of sounding conceited, I don't want to be driving what everyone and their neighbor drives.
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      12-28-2016, 12:39 AM   #50
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As silly as it sounds, that's why Porsche has that exclusive appeal. If you told me you spent close to $1,000 on a leather covered rearview mirror housing, I'd call you a chump. Yet others will come up to you and say it's 'beautiful'.

If Porsche priced their options reasonably it would only make them more ubiquitous. And at the risk of sounding conceited, I don't want to be driving what everyone and their neighbor drives.
That's true having more options is always a good thing of course.

But in the same breath, in our day and age I think paying for Navigation is very dumb. yes we have our phones and so long as you have BluTooth connection, you don't need the car to have Navigation really but it is the principal of the matter.

I keep trying to configure a Macan S reasonably but it keeps going up to 64k at least and I cannot trim that any further.

A Macan S is 54k base, but that is w/o the fee which is 1k as it is. Then there is the colors, which if you don't choose White or Black, it adds another $600 plus. So just by picking a color you are already sitting at 56k w/o any options. Now, you get rid of the black trim on the doors, along with Porsche Connect you are sitting at 59k just with basic things. Without Navigation.

I mean, I thought BMW was bad but Porsche lol good lord.

Edit: Also, Porsche doesn't have HUD! (I think)
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      12-28-2016, 01:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Yeah. So far my biggest gripe with Porsche is they go even further with options lol. Like everything is an option and that is hyper expensive (-.-)

I mean European are known to gouge you with options but Porsche is way worse than BMW. lol
Porsche's base configurations are a joke and the options are spendy but if you can stomach it the vehicles are second to none. You can get a decently equipped Macan S in the mid $60k range and a Macan Turbo in the $80k ballpark. Expensive but a lot cheaper than the less fun Cayenne.
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      12-28-2016, 01:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Yeah. So far my biggest gripe with Porsche is they go even further with options lol. Like everything is an option and that is hyper expensive (-.-)

I mean European are known to gouge you with options but Porsche is way worse than BMW. lol
Porsche's base configurations are a joke and the options are spendy but if you can stomach it the vehicles are second to none. You can get a decently equipped Macan S in the mid $60k range and a Macan Turbo in the $80k ballpark. Expensive but a lot cheaper than the less fun Cayenne.
Agreed.

Unfortunately the Macan can't tow. So I ended up with a cayenne.
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      12-28-2016, 01:33 PM   #53
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Agreed.

Unfortunately the Macan can't tow. So I ended up with a cayenne.
Very true. If you need to tow something substantial the Cayenne is Porsches best option. I have owned several Cayennes and they towed my boat really well.
I have changed my car buying. I drive a pickup for a DD and a heavier duty vehicle for towing and hauling and my better half drives a Macan Turbo. I love my pick up(can't wait until next week for my Raptor) but love the rare chance to drive her vehicle. If I were in the market for a sedan or wagon I would opt for a Macan over either.
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      12-28-2016, 01:39 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Agreed.

Unfortunately the Macan can't tow. So I ended up with a cayenne.
Very true. If you need to tow something substantial the Cayenne is Porsches best option. I have owned several Cayennes and they towed my boat really well.
I have changed my car buying. I drive a pickup for a DD and a heavier duty vehicle for towing and hauling and my better half drives a Macan Turbo. I love my pick up(can't wait until next week for my Raptor) but love the rare chance to drive her vehicle. If I were in the market for a sedan or wagon I would opt for a Macan over either.
Yeah I def see the allure of the new raptor.

My wife DDs the cayenne. Although I have a tune and cat deletes for when I drive it.

Most fun you can have in a near 5k pound car.
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      12-28-2016, 03:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Yeah I def see the allure of the new raptor.

My wife DDs the cayenne. Although I have a tune and cat deletes for when I drive it.

Most fun you can have in a near 5k pound car.
I am... soooo not a pickup driver person lol.

Although I would say having that large ass cargo space is handy from time to time.

I would agree with the options part. I cannot configure one to how I like it because everything costs something. Unlike a BMW I can get away completely with a base car, I don't think I can with a Porsche. Again though, Blutooth is standard so I can ignore the Apple Car Play and no Navigation because I just use my phone and through Blutooth connect everything is fine. But everything else? Getting rid of that black thing on the doors? Really?! Not to mention I think adding in the Sport/Sport + option actually also costs you. >.>
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      12-28-2016, 05:16 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Agreed.

Unfortunately the Macan can't tow. So I ended up with a cayenne.
Not sure why you think that, as an electric deployable towbar is a factory option on the Macan and Porsche list a braked towing capacity of 4400lbs on their website...??

Cayenne is a better option, but I know someone that tows a race car with a Macan.
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      12-28-2016, 05:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Agreed.

Unfortunately the Macan can't tow. So I ended up with a cayenne.
Not sure why you think that, as an electric deployable towbar is a factory option on the Macan and Porsche list a braked towing capacity of 4400lbs on their website...??

Cayenne is a better option, but I know someone that tows a race car with a Macan.
I wouldn't want to max out any tow vehicle let alone at 4400 pounds.

The rear brakes are tiny and the pdk longevity is an unknown factor

Not saying it can't be done, but rather safer than sorry.
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      12-28-2016, 06:01 PM   #58
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I am... soooo not a pickup driver person lol.

Although I would say having that large ass cargo space is handy from time to time.

I would agree with the options part. I cannot configure one to how I like it because everything costs something. Unlike a BMW I can get away completely with a base car, I don't think I can with a Porsche. Again though, Blutooth is standard so I can ignore the Apple Car Play and no Navigation because I just use my phone and through Blutooth connect everything is fine. But everything else? Getting rid of that black thing on the doors? Really?! Not to mention I think adding in the Sport/Sport + option actually also costs you. >.>
I used to think I wasnt a pickup person either. Then I bought one for my lake cabin and suddenly the Cayenne seemed frivolous. If you haul anything (bikes for me)you can't beat a pickup.
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      12-28-2016, 10:05 PM   #59
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I used to think I wasnt a pickup person either. Then I bought one for my lake cabin and suddenly the Cayenne seemed frivolous. If you haul anything (bikes for me)you can't beat a pickup.
One thing I do know.

I do not see myself in a pick-up or American car like Mustang/Charger/Challenger. Most everyone who knows me in person agree with that. :P
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      12-30-2016, 01:08 PM   #60
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One thing I do know.

I do not see myself in a pick-up or American car like Mustang/Charger/Challenger. Most everyone who knows me in person agree with that. :P
To each his own but I think you're missing out if you pigeonhole yourself.
After years of being a German car only guy I have purchased pickups and GTRs and have enjoyed broadening my tastes. I would love to get a GT350R.
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      01-01-2017, 10:43 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
I am... soooo not a pickup driver person lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
One thing I do know.

I do not see myself in a pick-up or American car like Mustang/Charger/Challenger. Most everyone who knows me in person agree with that. :P
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Originally Posted by 991GT3 View Post
To each his own but I think you're missing out if you pigeonhole yourself.

I think Arcades needs to sell his M, get a Mustang GT350R and a Ford F150.

991GT3 Life is different in LA than North Dakota. Materialism is one of the shots that are given along with vaccinations.

There are a lot of cars I cannot imagine myself driving because it is not me. It does look like a 991 GT3 and Ford Raptor are great cars though. I would be pretty much done with car buying.
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      01-01-2017, 11:30 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by PoorLurker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
I am... soooo not a pickup driver person lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
One thing I do know.

I do not see myself in a pick-up or American car like Mustang/Charger/Challenger. Most everyone who knows me in person agree with that. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by 991GT3 View Post
To each his own but I think you're missing out if you pigeonhole yourself.

I think Arcades needs to sell his M, get a Mustang GT350R and a Ford F150.

991GT3 Life is different in LA than North Dakota. Materialism is one of the shots that are given along with vaccinations.

There are a lot of cars I cannot imagine myself driving because it is not me. It does look like a 991 GT3 and Ford Raptor are great cars though. I would be pretty much done with car buying.
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      01-02-2017, 11:24 PM   #63
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I think Arcades needs to sell his M, get a Mustang GT350R and a Ford F150.

991GT3 Life is different in LA than North Dakota. Materialism is one of the shots that are given along with vaccinations.

There are a lot of cars I cannot imagine myself driving because it is not me. It does look like a 991 GT3 and Ford Raptor are great cars though. I would be pretty much done with car buying.

Phoney people are phoney people regardless of location.
I don't understand the aversion to trying something different or better.
A GT350R would beat up on any BMW.
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      01-03-2017, 06:56 AM   #64
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Great review!
Also i think the gear selector, center console on new Porsches look hideous.
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      01-03-2017, 09:32 AM   #65
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The Macan S is a vastly superior driving machine compared to the X3 (and pretty much all other SUVs of that class). It's a no brainer really choosing between the two. Driving them back to back makes the X3 (35 msport) feels like junk.

I also enjoy the Macan's interior much more (maybe due to fatigue of BMW interior given I ve seen it for so long). Many buttons feel great to me. I actually don't like the touch console of the new Pan.

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      01-03-2017, 09:44 AM   #66
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The Macan S is a vastly superior driving machine compared to the X3 (an pretty much all other SUVs of that class). It's a no brainer really choosing between the two. Driving them back to back makes the X3 (35 msport) feels like junk.
Indeed, its in a different league to the X3 entirely in terms of driving dynamics.
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