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      10-16-2019, 03:20 AM   #1
330XDave
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Car insurance - it really does take the p*ss

I'm trying to find car insurance for my F31 330d xDrive. It has one modification which is an engine remap. The cheapest I can find is £810. This is for a guy with 15 years driving experience with 15 years no claims and no offences. I paid half this amount for a RWD 335i when I was 27 6 years ago. Frustratingly BMW quote £580 but won't insure if it's remapped! One big rip off.
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      10-16-2019, 03:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330XDave View Post
I'm trying to find car insurance for my F31 330d xDrive. It has one modification which is an engine remap. The cheapest I can find is £810. This is for a guy with 15 years driving experience with 15 years no claims and no offences. I paid half this amount for a RWD 335i when I was 27 6 years ago. Frustratingly BMW quote £580 but won't insure if it's remapped! One big rip off.
I feel your pain!

Mine seems to be the same, the more NCB I build up (12 years) the more my premium rises

No points or convictions either.
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      10-16-2019, 03:47 AM   #3
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Have you tried LV? They're usually pretty good with mods.
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      10-16-2019, 03:48 AM   #4
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Have you tried LV? They're usually pretty good with mods.
£1200. Absolute joke.
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      10-16-2019, 04:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330XDave View Post
£1200. Absolute joke.
Yikes! See what you mean.

I just did a generic quote for a 45yr old, living in Horsham, clean record, parked on driveway, fully comp, SDP, £500 xs, paid annually, 2yr old 330d X Drive with modded engine on that gocompare place and it came to £700 or 726 with legal cover andp.a., and that just happened to be LV. Obviously don't know your circumstances, could there be anything else loading your premium? Motor insurers are a devious bunch and load up premiums on all sorts of stuff - the top quote was £4,822 from O2
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      10-16-2019, 04:47 AM   #6
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I really wouldn't bother declaring it, how would they ever detect it in the event of you making a claim?! Even if by some miracle they could, they'd have to prove it contributed towards the event you're claiming for.
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      10-16-2019, 05:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
I really wouldn't bother declaring it, how would they ever detect it in the event of you making a claim?! Even if by some miracle they could, they'd have to prove it contributed towards the event you're claiming for.
I imagine that in a large majority of claims they wouldn't detect it, or even try to, and that probably fits with most people's experience where the claim is for a few thousand or less.

The larger the claim though, the greater their incentive to find a way to reduce or remove their responsibility. If someone is injured in an accident, the costs could be orders of magnitude higher - potentially 6 or 7 figures. Faced with a potential bill like that, I imagine that they'll go over the car with a fine-toothed comb. So personally, I will always declare mods.
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      10-16-2019, 05:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
I imagine that in a large majority of claims they wouldn't detect it, or even try to, and that probably fits with most people's experience where the claim is for a few thousand or less.

The larger the claim though, the greater their incentive to find a way to reduce or remove their responsibility. If someone is injured in an accident, the costs could be orders of magnitude higher - potentially 6 or 7 figures. Faced with a potential bill like that, I imagine that they'll go over the car with a fine-toothed comb. So personally, I will always declare mods.
I suppose if someone drives recklessly then they could argue it, but if you drive sensibly and stick to the speed limits at all times, there's no way it's a contributing factor to any accident.
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      10-16-2019, 05:57 AM   #9
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It seems to be a complete lottery. I went with BMW this time around, who were £150 cheaper than my previous insurer's renewal offer, whilst offering lower excess and BMW dealerships guaranteed for repairs etc.
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      10-16-2019, 06:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
they'd have to prove it contributed towards the event you're claiming for.
They wouldn't - you're specifically outside the T&C of the contract of insurance where they explicitly say that cover may be voided if you fail to declare, blah, blah.

I agree that they would be unlikely to find anything but they certainly wouldn't have to prove a contributory element if they did.
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      10-16-2019, 06:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
They wouldn't - you're specifically outside the T&C of the contract of insurance where they explicitly say that cover may be voided if you fail to declare, blah, blah.

I agree that they would be unlikely to find anything but they certainly wouldn't have to prove a contributory element if they did.
I'm pretty sure they do, the government put a stop to insurance companies not paying out for modifications which didn't affect the claimed for incident. Insurance companies were taking the piss a few years ago, they even refused to pay out because a women had window stickers in her car!! But apparently all that has stopped now.
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      10-16-2019, 06:30 AM   #12
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Try Adrian Flux, the more mods you have the cheaper it is.
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      10-16-2019, 06:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
I'm pretty sure they do, the government put a stop to insurance companies not paying out for modifications which didn't affect the claimed for incident. Insurance companies were taking the piss a few years ago, they even refused to pay out because a women had window stickers in her car!! But apparently all that has stopped now.
I also believe that some of the dodgier insurance practices have been cracked down upon. There is quite a difference between a window sticker and a remap though. An insurer could reasonably claim that they would have quoted a significantly higher premium, or even not offered insurance at all had they known about the remap, so I think you are leaving yourself open to the risk of them rejecting the claim.

If it's a few thousand then that's just one of those things. A personal injury claim could be a different matter entirely. I have heard of people being driven to the brink by the MIB, once they get hold of it. Even bankruptcy doesn't normally extinguish these personal injury debts so it can follow you to the grave.

For peace of mind if nothing else, I think car mods should be declared.
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      10-16-2019, 06:47 AM   #14
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      10-16-2019, 07:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
I'm pretty sure they do, the government put a stop to insurance companies not paying out for modifications which didn't affect the claimed for incident. Insurance companies were taking the piss a few years ago, they even refused to pay out because a women had window stickers in her car!! But apparently all that has stopped now.
That got me thinking and I believe you're correct.

FCA Handbook - Insurance: Conduct of Business

Cases where rejection of consumerís claim is unreasonable: contracts on or after 1 August 2017.

8.1.2B
For contracts entered into or variations agreed on or after 1 August 2017, a rejection of a consumer policyholder's claim for breach of a condition or warranty (that is not subject to and within section 10 or 11 of the Insurance Act 2015) is unreasonable unless the circumstances of the claim are connected to the breach.


I read that as saying it is unreasonable for an insurance company to reject a claim if the breach of condition (i.e. policyholder not declaring a modification) is not related to the circumstances of the claim. E.g. they can't reject a claim for your car being keyed if you didn't declare your car was remapped.

Source: https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/ICOBS.pdf
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      10-16-2019, 07:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobUK View Post
That got me thinking and I believe you're correct.

FCA Handbook - Insurance: Conduct of Business

Cases where rejection of consumerís claim is unreasonable: contracts on or after 1 August 2017.

8.1.2B
For contracts entered into or variations agreed on or after 1 August 2017, a rejection of a consumer policyholder's claim for breach of a condition or warranty (that is not subject to and within section 10 or 11 of the Insurance Act 2015) is unreasonable unless the circumstances of the claim are connected to the breach.


I read that as saying it is unreasonable for an insurance company to reject a claim if the breach of condition (i.e. policyholder not declaring a modification) is not related to the circumstances of the claim. E.g. they can't reject a claim for your car being keyed if you didn't declare your car was remapped.

Source: https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/ICOBS.pdf
Yes that's the new regulations I was talking about!

Now obviously if you lose control of your car on a bend and crash then they could rightfully say that the remap would be a contributing factor, but if you're sitting at 70mph on a motorway and a person/animal/vehicle steps/drives in front of you and you hit them then obviously a remap makes no difference whatsoever.

Similarly if you have wheel spacers and you crash into something/someone then the wheels spacers were not a contributing factor, but if your wheel falls off due to a faulty wheel spacer/bolt and you crash, then the spacers are a contributing factor.
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      10-16-2019, 07:19 AM   #17
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That's all fair enough and good info, but I would imagine they could argue a remap affects any moving vehicle incident. Like most things, it's your own attitude to risk, I suppose.
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      10-16-2019, 07:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
Yes that's the new regulations I was talking about!

Now obviously if you lose control of your car on a bend and crash then they could rightfully say that the remap would be a contributing factor, but if you're sitting at 70mph on a motorway and a person/animal/vehicle steps/drives in front of you and you hit them then obviously a remap makes no difference whatsoever.

Similarly if you have wheel spacers and you crash into something/someone then the wheels spacers were not a contributing factor, but if your wheel falls off due to a faulty wheel spacer/bolt and you crash, then the spacers are a contributing factor.
Hell, if the OP isnít the first owner of the car he could play dumb to even knowing the car was remapped as well as having those new regulations.
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      10-16-2019, 07:40 AM   #19
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I suspect that this article sums up the main reason behind your high premiums.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/...t-spots-500432
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      10-16-2019, 08:09 AM   #20
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Amazing how many people are happy to advocate insurance fraud on a public forum
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      10-16-2019, 08:20 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by TouringPleb View Post
Amazing how many people are happy to advocate insurance fraud on a public forum
I think the OPís insurance quotes are the real Criminal offence here
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      10-16-2019, 08:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaston View Post
I'm pretty sure they do, the government put a stop to insurance companies not paying out for modifications which didn't affect the claimed for incident. Insurance companies were taking the piss a few years ago, they even refused to pay out because a women had window stickers in her car!! But apparently all that has stopped now.
No they didnt - the Insurance Act says that you HAVE to tell your insurers everything that you know that might affect your policy and failing to gives them the right to cancel cover.

I look after insurance as part of my job - slightly more than a car as our annual premium is about £1.5m. Let me tell you, not telling your insurers something not only invalidates your cover it is fraud and you can (and should) be severely punished for it.
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