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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) > Tony Stewart
View Poll Results: Where does fault lie?
Criminal charges should be filed. Stewart is finished in racing. 30 11.11%
Should lose a lawsuit, but Stewart can salvage his career. 8 2.96%
Tragic accident, blame on both sides. 68 25.19%
Jeff Ward shouldn't have walked on the track. 164 60.74%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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      08-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #1
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Unhappy Tony Stewart

I'm sure there are all kinds of opinions. Hopefully one of the 4 poll choices is close enough.

Good grief. Kevin Ward, not Jeff Ward. Stupid. If someone knows how to fix it or delete the whole thing, please let me know. I can't figure out how to do either.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 08-10-2014 at 01:17 PM..
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      08-10-2014, 01:16 PM   #2
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I haven't voted yet since I need all the facts. Stewart is known as a hothead so did he do everything he could to avoid hitting him. Remember, they bumped each other in the previous lap. Either way, this is a tragic situation. I do believe a criminal investigation needs to happen to determine if it was intentional.
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      08-10-2014, 01:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
I haven't voted yet since I need all the facts. Stewart is known as a hothead so did he do everything he could to avoid hitting him. Remember, they bumped each other in the previous lap. Either way, this is a tragic situation. I do believe a criminal investigation needs to happen to determine if it was intentional.
This. There is ample video out there. Shouldn't be too hard for investigators to figure out if there was intent or not. But regardless of Stewart's culpability, Ward (and any other driver) should have never been allowed to walk towards oncoming traffic to confront other drivers. This happens in NASCAR all the time and needs to be banned.
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      08-10-2014, 02:13 PM   #4
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I don't think stewart was at fault or malicious. Ward shouldn't have left his car or ran around. He almost got hit more than once. Plain stupid on his part.
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      08-10-2014, 02:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I don't think stewart was at fault or malicious. Ward shouldn't have left his car or ran around. He almost got hit more than once. Plain stupid on his part.
+1

It is hard to tell if Stewart meant to hit him or not (I find it hard to believe he would do it intentionally), but getting out of the car on a live track is never a good idea unless there is an immediate danger related to staying in the car such as a fire. I can't imagine it is easy to avoid somebody who is walking into traffic, at night, while cars are still going at or close to speed, especially when it appears he was trying to walk right at Stewart.

Regardless its a tragic incident and I feel bad for the kid and his family . Hopefully something good will come out of this to help prevent these kinds of things in the future.
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      08-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #6
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Having watched a few clips it really does seem like Stewart went out of his way to either scare or hit the guy. I'd guess it was just aggressive posturing that went very wrong. On the same token Ward really should not have put himself in harm's way the way he did. My gut feeling is Stewart will escape without any criminal charges but doubt his career remains intact.
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      08-10-2014, 03:03 PM   #7
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Both were at fault in my eyes but more blame is on Tony. Ward shouldn't have walked down the track toward on coming cars, but I have to say that Tony blatantly nailed the throttle more than likely in an attempt to scare or intimidate Ward. Unfortunately it ended up killing the guy. Mistakes do happen but this is a classic example of he should have understood that there was at least a possibility of injuring if not killing him by trying that move.
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      08-10-2014, 03:22 PM   #8
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why the hell would you get out of a car and start walking towards oncoming racers. That is the dumbest thing to do. Stay in your car, we all know even the best drivers lose control sometimes and freak accidents happen.... just like they did.
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      08-10-2014, 03:29 PM   #9
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I don't know much about sprint cars and how sophisticated they are. But if Tony did in fact nail the throttle in attempt to scare the guy there is a laptop out there storing that data including the throttle response right before impact. I'm following this one to the very end.
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      08-10-2014, 03:30 PM   #10
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I think Kevin Ward deserves the Darwin Award for this year. How stupid can you be to get out of your car and run onto the middle of the track with cars coming at speed, just so you can yell and scream your head off at another driver? And really, it's ridiculous to blame it on his temper. We all lose our cool every once in a while, but we never let go of our survival instincts. he already almost got run over by another car. That should have been his cue to get the hell off the track!
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      08-10-2014, 03:34 PM   #11
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I agree that Kevin should have stayed inside the car. If I got out of my car every time someone cut me off. I would have been road kill 100+ times by now
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      08-10-2014, 03:41 PM   #12
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I also didn't vote in the poll. Too much unknown, only one video view that I've seen, and multiple options could be selected/guessed right now.

But have to say that it doesn't look particularly good for Stewart.

- The video with sound conveys (for me) a very different feeling vs the one without.

Audio here: http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-ste...ing-1618893708

- Since the race was under caution, the rev and timing of the rev can be clearly heard. I don't associate that sort of rev and the subsequent posture of the car with an avoidance action.

- It's possible, but seems unlikely that Stewart would not have been heads up going into the corner of the incident, and was entirely surprised (last second) by Ward being there. Incident occurred just the previous lap, and there looked to be enough of a gap between him and the car ahead for a clear view.

- Ward made an effort to jump out of the way right before being hit -- like the proximity and direction of Stewart's car surprised him. And it looks to me that it was the back end of Stewart's car that clipped him after he stabbed the throttle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredicus View Post
Having watched a few clips it really does seem like Stewart went out of his way to either scare or hit the guy. I'd guess it was just aggressive posturing that went very wrong.
^^^
This is what I think probably happened also.

Tragic for the kid and especially his family.

Account from another sprint car racer sitting in the grandstands --

"Tony pinched him into the frontstretch wall, a racing thing," Graves said. "The right rear tire went down, he spun on the exit of (Turn) 2. They threw the caution and everything was toned down. Kevin got out of his car. He was throwing his arms up all over the place at Tony for most of the corner.

"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."
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      08-10-2014, 03:48 PM   #13
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I have a different interpretation of what happened. Having replayed the video several times, to me, the rev jump was AFTER impact.

Also, no one, regardless of what reason, should ever get into the path of other cars on a track. Period. As someone stated above, this is part of the NASCAR culture and should never be tolerated. Fining someone is not enough. A suspension or ban should be the penalty. You never see this in any other form of racing.

Having been on a professional race track and having crashes happen in front of me, a yellow flag is not what people think it is. It means to slow down to a reasonable and safe speed and no passing. It is to allow safety workers to get to the scene safely. Yellow flags do not take into account hot heads wanting to start an argument in the middle of a hot race track. Had this been a red flag, I agree Tony would be 100% at fault.
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      08-10-2014, 03:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I have a different interpretation of what happened. Having replayed the video several times, to me, the rev jump was AFTER impact.
At the point at which you can first hear the car start to rev, pause the video. The kid is still up to the front/right of the car.
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      08-10-2014, 03:55 PM   #15
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It was a tragic accident. Anyone who says he throttled into the poor kid doesn't know much about the dynamics and mechanics of sprint car racing...if you read up on it you'll see just how much throttle control is used (much more than brakes).
IMHO both parties made choices that were poor and tragic. The kid shouldn't have thought being out on the track during a race was a good idea. Tony, being the "cowboy" he's known to be was surely pushing the limits of his car
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      08-10-2014, 04:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
At the point at which you can first hear the car start to rev, pause the video. The kid is still up to the front/right of the car.
I did. Numerous times and no where do I see him in front of Tony's car before the rev sound.

Also, Ward almost caused an incident with #45 when he charged out into the path of traffic. If #45 had hit him, will everyone else be saying the same things?
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      08-10-2014, 04:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 954Stealth View Post
It was a tragic accident. Anyone who says he throttled into the poor kid doesn't know much about the dynamics and mechanics of sprint car racing...if you read up on it you'll see just how much throttle control is used (much more than brakes).
IMHO both parties made choices that were poor and tragic. The kid shouldn't have thought being out on the track during a race was a good idea. Tony, being the "cowboy" he's known to be was surely pushing the limits of his car
I don't see how Tony was pushing he limits of his car during the yellow. He was circulating at the same speed as everyone else. There's no video of the events prior to the one recorded in the video. But to me what lead to Ward crashing was just a racing incident.
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      08-10-2014, 04:07 PM   #18
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Bottom line is that should have been handled off the track. Kid decided to handle it on track.
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      08-10-2014, 04:10 PM   #19
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The first thing your told before you get on any track is DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR. Ward needed to express himself to the celebrity, a bit of posturing that got him killed. Even if Stewart shares some fault, the huge majority of it rests with Ward.

They should have red flagged the race after he got out of his car, but this is different world than the one I'm used to.

I will say, at first I thought Stewart's line of sight might have been blocked, but it appears that he should have had a clear view of Ward. However, on track, your eyes are only looking for cars, corners and walls NOT people, easy to miss if your not expecting a guy in a black suit hopping around a live track.
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      08-10-2014, 04:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
The first thing your told before you get on any track is DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR. Ward needed to express himself to the celebrity, a bit of posturing that got him killed. Even if Stewart shares some fault, the huge majority of it rests with Ward. They should have red flagged the race after he got out of his car, but this is different world than the one I'm used to.
I agree.
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      08-10-2014, 04:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
I haven't voted yet since I need all the facts. Stewart is known as a hothead so did he do everything he could to avoid hitting him. Remember, they bumped each other in the previous lap. Either way, this is a tragic situation. I do believe a criminal investigation needs to happen to determine if it was intentional.
^ This.

I don't watch NASCAR, nor do I know the NASCAR rules. But in the HPDEs I run, the only time--ever--you get out of the car is if it's on fire. Period. If, as some have stated, this "happens all the time" then it's not if, but just when something like this will happen again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
The first thing your told before you get on any track is DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR. Ward needed to express himself to the celebrity, a bit of posturing that got him killed. Even if Stewart shares some fault, the huge majority of it rests with Ward.

They should have red flagged the race after he got out of his car, but this is different world than the one I'm used to.

I will say, at first I thought Stewart's line of sight might have been blocked, but it appears that he should have had a clear view of Ward. However, on track, your eyes are only looking for cars, corners and walls NOT people, easy to miss if your not expecting a guy in a black suit hopping around a live track.
This too. Red flag? And, as a driver, you're not looking for people. Hell, line, hitting marks, other cars front, side, rear, that's what the driver is looking for--that's what I'm looking for when driving on track. Never heard a question in a driver's meeting "what happens if there's a guy out of his car walking on the track?"

Last, need more facts. But as with most disasters and tragedies (e.g. bridge collapses, whatever) it's never one thing--it's a combination of a lot of factors that lead to horrible outcomes.
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      08-10-2014, 04:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I have a different interpretation of what happened. Having replayed the video several times, to me, the rev jump was AFTER impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Numerous times and no where do I see him in front of Tony's car before the rev sound.
The link that someone posted earlier in this thread on deadspin.com has a different audio "alignment with the video" than other videos I've seen. Here's one on Youtube:

I've also seen another on thirdworldsociety.com and it has the same audio as the one on the youtube link I just posted.

In the link I posted, you hear the rev precisely about 1 second PRIOR to the impact, making it appear that Tony was attempting to scare Kevin, and ended up unintentionally killing him.

My conclusion is that it was an unintentional impact, and yes the kid was dumb for getting out of his car, but it is definitely Tony's fault for killing him. No question. You rev your car to scare, and you unintentionally kill him. I believe that is what will come of the lawsuit.
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