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      09-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #67
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Amazing race and easily one of the best this season! Very happy for Charles and a much deserved win. The fandom in Italy was something to see and made for the perfect race atmosphere.

I'll pile on the Vettel hate...what is going on with him? It's all in his head as he seemingly forgot how to drive. And that unsafe return to track was just scary and could have turned out very badly. Seems like a safe assumption that his seat at Ferrari will open up for next season. Ricciardo would be a great fit imo. A veteran with a good attitude and personality who could challenge Charles and also mentor him in some ways.
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      09-08-2019, 06:42 PM   #68
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awesome race!

danny wont go to ferrari, he wants to be world champ, he needs to be a #1 driver on a team and that wont happen at ferrari while charles is driving for them.

ham is pissed that he couldnt find a gap, charles was able to see and know what ham would try and was able to defend that spot like no other!
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      09-08-2019, 07:21 PM   #69
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As a pissed off Vettel fan I feel like he should get a mental coach or something. His mind is just not in the right place. He's driving worse than a rookie. What's happening with him is heartbreaking to us his fans (I'm sure it's much much worse to him). Now I understand that we can only see a small fraction of what's happening between him and the team but for his future I really hope Ferrari is siding with him and understands what he's going through, otherwise it'll be a shameful retirement!
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      09-08-2019, 07:25 PM   #70
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Great entertaining race, as a ham fan I was sort of upset at that push, but more upset about bottas lack of ability after all those fast laps
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      09-08-2019, 07:36 PM   #71
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Great entertaining race, as a ham fan I was sort of upset at that push, but more upset about bottas lack of ability after all those fast laps
Yea, I was really surprised at how many mistakes bottas made once he pulled up to Leclerc. Really shows (per usual) how good Hamilton is at maintaining heavy pressure.
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      09-08-2019, 08:15 PM   #72
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Vettel has definitely been off ever since he left Red Bull and it seems to be getting worse. It's most likely that he will finish the season, but another really bad drive and maybe Ferrari doesn't want him to finish if it looks like it will cost them more money in terms of the Constructor's Championship. Of course they would need a replacement on hand who they could count on doing at least a reasonable job in a car that now looks equal to the Mercedes. I doubt either party would consider it, but I thought it rather odd to see Fernando hanging around this weekend. Replace Seb with Fernando and maybe Ferrari comes out on top.
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      09-08-2019, 09:33 PM   #73
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Ferrari should dump Vettel at the end of the season, and give Alonso one final hurrah.

I can't believe how much Vettel has dropped off, what a decline.
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      09-08-2019, 09:34 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
You know what I'm wondering that also, are Ferrari holding back on some of the things that Charles' car has got, i can't believe that Seb is just losing it in the driving.
They both have the same car/updates at their disposal. The "issue" is that the handling of the car suits Leclerc's driving style more than it does Vettel's. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but if I remember correctly this years Ferrari has a tendency to understeer which has contributed to Vettel's lack of pace/mistakes.

It will be interesting to see how Ferrari develop's next year's car and if they'll dial back the understeer. If they do, it would suggest they are throwing their support behind Vettel. Either way, I really like Leclerc and I think that regardless of how Ferrari develop next years car, he'll rise to challenge and adapt his driving style.
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      09-09-2019, 02:27 AM   #75
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In any case it didn't work out for Hamilton,he's met his match in a new breed of younger Ferrari driver who after a few races knows his every move and letting Bottas take over when he tired shows that even Hamilton has a limit finishing some 30 seconds down.
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      09-09-2019, 07:14 AM   #76
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great race... best so far and the Charles can drive.

I would say dont get carried away with yesterdays results... MD was down on power, it will not happen again
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      09-09-2019, 08:28 AM   #77
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great race... best so far and the Charles can drive.

I would say dont get carried away with yesterdays results... MD was down on power, it will not happen again
I wonder what Hamilton would have been able to achieve had he been given access to a higher engine mode earlier on in the race. He did ask for more power but Mercedes declined the request. They did give Bottas access to the higher engine mode but only on the last lap, so a little too late to make a difference.
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      09-09-2019, 08:34 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
In any case it didn't work out for Hamilton,he's met his match in a new breed of younger Ferrari driver who after a few races knows his every move and letting Bottas take over when he tired shows that even Hamilton has a limit finishing some 30 seconds down.
Just to clarify, Hamilton finished down 30+ seconds because he made a second stop for fresh tires. Running behind Leclerc in for the entirety of his second stint really took a toll on his tires (he had blisters on the right front tire). He had a pit stop in hand over the Renault's and it was an easy decision to get the extra point for fastest lap.

That being said, it was nice to see Leclerc being aggressive and putting up a strong fight. Watching him battle Hamilton and Verstappen in the future will be very entertaining!
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      09-09-2019, 09:50 AM   #79
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I thought it was just to set fastest lap on softs (red),he didn't need a fresh set specifically and did it just to haul in that extra point for the constructors. The blister on the non drive wheel wasn't such an issue.
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      09-09-2019, 10:06 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Amazing race and easily one of the best this season! Very happy for Charles and a much deserved win. The fandom in Italy was something to see and made for the perfect race atmosphere.

I'll pile on the Vettel hate...what is going on with him? It's all in his head as he seemingly forgot how to drive. And that unsafe return to track was just scary and could have turned out very badly. Seems like a safe assumption that his seat at Ferrari will open up for next season. Ricciardo would be a great fit imo. A veteran with a good attitude and personality who could challenge Charles and also mentor him in some ways.
Ricciardo would not want to be no.2 in any team or be a mentor to a younger driver especially at Ferrari.He wants to win a drivers championship and it won't be done this way.The Renault is getting quicker and his best chance is to stay put and hope new regs will even up the gap however hard it seems now with the three top teams.
Vettel? When you have an understeering car which suits Leclerc more and mistakes happen any driver would react not always the correct way.The way I see it Seb has reached the end of his tether with the mistakes and a car that is wayward to him under extremis.

Last edited by M5theonlyone; 09-09-2019 at 10:29 AM..
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      09-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
I thought it was just to set fastest lap on softs (red),he didn't need a fresh set specifically and did it just to haul in that extra point for the constructors. The blister on the non drive wheel wasn't such an issue.
You're right, it was just to set fastest lap. I just interpreted your previous comment to mean there was more to him finishing that far adrift, hence the clarification.
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      09-09-2019, 10:19 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
You're right, it was just to set fastest lap. I just interpreted your previous comment to mean there was more to him finishing that far adrift, hence the clarification.
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      09-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Amazing race and easily one of the best this season! Very happy for Charles and a much deserved win. The fandom in Italy was something to see and made for the perfect race atmosphere.

I'll pile on the Vettel hate...what is going on with him? It's all in his head as he seemingly forgot how to drive. And that unsafe return to track was just scary and could have turned out very badly. Seems like a safe assumption that his seat at Ferrari will open up for next season. Ricciardo would be a great fit imo. A veteran with a good attitude and personality who could challenge Charles and also mentor him in some ways.

It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.

Last edited by apexit4; 09-09-2019 at 10:41 AM..
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      09-09-2019, 10:46 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.
Also the ever higher side head protection on the cars plus the mounting point of the HALO. Basically his vision is blocked entirely.

VET had put himself into a tough position, damn if he waited for the marshals to signal its safe to return (which he will be almost dead last), or take a chance and hope didn't hit anyone.

In the spur of the moment, he had elected the latter and there's the consequences.
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      09-09-2019, 11:46 AM   #85
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I think the real story is Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races! Hard tires were the right decision. He should have won a long time ago if not for stupid mistakes from the team.

Great race from Charles, he earned every lap of that one. I was on the edge of my seat till the last corner. And great to see him truly happy and really enjoy it compared to Spa. Well deserved!
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      09-09-2019, 12:09 PM   #86
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I think the real story is Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races! Hard tires were the right decision. He should have won a long time ago if not for stupid mistakes from the team.

Great race from Charles, he earned every lap of that one. I was on the edge of my seat till the last corner. And great to see him truly happy and really enjoy it compared to Spa. Well deserved!
Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races ?
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      09-09-2019, 12:30 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.

What are you talking about? Are you just typing anything that comes to your mind just for the heck of it? Fire/sack???? Lol you made me laugh.
A few things: Italian media has always been harsh when a Ferrari driver under-performs but going through the Italian websites of some newspapers and tv channels I noticed a lot of support for Vettel. Videos from spectators changing Vettel's name after he spun were more than I thought they will be (videos from people I know personally and some other fans from the internet). Fans in front of the factory in Maranello hung flags and signs on the gates of the factory and everyone was celebrating Leclerc and Vettel.
I myself hated on Vettel yesterday but true Ferrari fans and Ferrari itself will never leave Vettel. Ferrari is a savage team but having an engineer as team principle will help Vettel keep his seat because Mattia understand Seb's driving style and understands that SF90 isn't a suitable car.
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      09-09-2019, 12:45 PM   #88
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What are you talking about? Are you just typing anything that comes to your mind just for the heck of it? Fire/sack???? Lol you made me laugh.
A few things: Italian media has always been harsh when a Ferrari driver under-performs but going through the Italian websites of some newspapers and tv channels I noticed a lot of support for Vettel. Videos from spectators changing Vettel's name after he spun were more than I thought they will be (videos from people I know personally and some other fans from the internet). Fans in front of the factory in Maranello hung flags and signs on the gates of the factory and everyone was celebrating Leclerc and Vettel.
I myself hated on Vettel yesterday but true Ferrari fans and Ferrari itself will never leave Vettel. Ferrari is a savage team but having an engineer as team principle will help Vettel keep his seat because Mattia understand Seb's driving style and understands that SF90 isn't a suitable car.
I'm not arguing for Vettel's contract being terminated or suggesting that it's a valid option. His mistake's for the past two seasons have caused many fans to question whether he will continue racing past this year. Most recently people have been calling for him to be fired. My response was merely to point out why it wouldn't happen. These suggestions have been so persistent that a few sites have gone on to point out exactly why it wouldn't happen.

For the record, I personally think there's no reason for anyone to suggest his contract would be terminated and another driver would be found as his replacement. He may be making mistakes, but it's not as black and white as "he's just lost it". As you said, Binotto is fully aware of what the situation looks like and supports both drivers.

EDIT: People seem to forget that Vettel isn't the only reason for him losing the title the last two years. Ferrari went the wrong way on developing the car's floor two year's ago (starting at the Singapore GP) and it took them a few races to figure out thats why their pace dropped off. Then there's the issue of things like a failed spark plug that cost him a goog result at the Japanese GP and poor pit strategy at a few races.

Last edited by apexit4; 09-09-2019 at 12:52 PM..
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