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      10-11-2019, 09:48 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
My point is simple....that what you claim to be a BMW failure was not.

No Corporate Head of a Public Company would dare continue full steam ahead on a program that was seen as a Company "failure".
Reread my second to last post and maybe you'll understand. I'm not going to debate this further.
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      10-11-2019, 09:52 PM   #200
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Pandering to the Chinese market because that's where the money is

Has it got Tegrity?





That thing is ugly.......
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      10-11-2019, 10:39 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
I actually do.

Just not in one of the extremely uptight states.

If I had to run one, if get one of the tow hook mount plate holders.

I also find that when I do get pulled over, the nicer I am, the nicer they are in return.
I think in NYC if you street park without front plate you're probably going to come back with a ticket to start with...
I have no doubt

I'd never street park my M
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      10-11-2019, 10:42 PM   #202
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      10-11-2019, 11:20 PM   #203
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Pandering to the Chinese market because that's where the money is
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Pandering to the Chinese market because that's where the money is
How do we know the Chinese market likes this?
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      10-11-2019, 11:40 PM   #204
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Van Hooydonk, when you F-up this bad it's time to go!

It's almost as bad as Trump trying to redesign the iconic, classic livery and beautiful 'luminous ultramarine blue' Air Force One to look like his old failed Trump airliner, formerly Eastern Airlines. We all know what happened to that, bankruptcy!
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      10-11-2019, 11:49 PM   #205
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Van Hooydonk, when you F-up this bad it's time to go!

It's almost as bad as Trump trying to redesign the classic and beautiful eggshell blue Air Force One look like his old failed Trump airliner, formerly Eastern Airlines. We all know what happened to that, bankruptcy!
There are several designs presented to the BMW Board.

The Board is the one who choose this design.

Adrian will auto-retire in 5 years.

Maybe fire the board.
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      10-11-2019, 11:51 PM   #206
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Van Hooydonk, when you F-up this bad it's time to go!

It's almost as bad as Trump trying to redesign the iconic, classic livery and beautiful 'luminous ultramarine blue' Air Force One to look like his old failed Trump airliner, formerly Eastern Airlines. We all know what happened to that, bankruptcy!
There are several designs presented to the BMW Board.

The Board is the one who choose this design.

Adrian will auto-retire in 5 years.

Maybe fire the board.
Then they all should be fired!
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      10-12-2019, 12:07 AM   #207
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Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.
I do. I mean I really do. Until some 20 years ago I loved the design of a LOT of BMW models. Then a long period followed where I practically didn't like ANY. I drove Audi, Alfa Romeo (even though a friend of mine is a BMW dealer) until the new Z4 saw the light. It was different and that convinced me to buy one. Of course, the technics and performance were always top notch, but the design did nothing for me.
The new 4 stands out again, and I love it. Really hope they don't change the design too much for the production version 🤔

I can't believe that I'm the only one??
You aren't the only one. Lots of people will like the car.
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      10-12-2019, 12:17 AM   #208
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You aren't the only one. Lots of people will like the car.
They better if they buy it because they're going to be stuck with it for a long loonnggg time as those resale prices drop through the floor.

Brave be the Beaver buyers!

(the lease deals post facelift will be epic!)
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      10-12-2019, 12:23 AM   #209
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You aren't the only one. Lots of people will like the car.
They better if they buy it because they're going to be stuck with it for a long loonnggg time as those resale prices drop through the floor.

Brave be the Beaver buyers!

[SIZE="1"](the lease deals post facelift will be epic!)[/SIZE]
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Let's remember that you were the first to bring up the EVs and call them a failure in this thread.
Not to dump petrol on this battery fire, but BMW did indeed fail on BEVs, certainly by the numbers. Further, BMW's head of dev, Klaus Fröhlich is constantly saying stupid crap like this from June:
"There are no customer requests for BEVs. None. … There are regulator requests for BEVs, but no customer requests. … If we have a big offer, a big incentive, we could flood Europe and sell a million cars, but Europeans won't buy these things."
We can see the failure if we take sales numbers from 1h2019 in the top European BEV markets - Norway, Sweden, and the Netherlands - where BMW sold ~4,100 i3s and Tesla sold ~13,000 Model 3s, a 3:1 loss in key markets against just Tesla. The only country where i3 sales come close is Germany and Tesla still beats BMW in sales. And keep in mind, this is JUST Tesla and JUST the 3, not other Tesla models or other BEVs.

So, yes, BMW's electric strategy is an absolute failure, however they have no choice but to proceed and double down, which is why Keuger is out. [COLOR="Blue"]From Bloomberg:[/COLOR]
As Krueger puzzled over how to reinvent BMW for the electric age, it was almost a year before he presented his strategic vision — which was a bust. He delayed BMW's next major electric car, effectively squandering its leadership in the field. Key engineers quit to set up an electric-vehicle startup. And to help pay for the shift, Krueger doubled down on gas-guzzling, super-charged luxury cars such as the 8-Series sports car and full-size X7 SUV.

"BMW took its head start in electric cars for granted and then failed to hit the accelerator again when needed," said Christian Ludwig, an analyst at Bankhaus Lampe in Bielefeld, Germany.
Ironically, here's what Krueger said in June:
"We have taken numerous decisions that we are now bringing to the road. By 2021, we will have doubled our sales of electrified vehicles compared with 2019."
Note that even if Krueger's prediction comes to pass they still lose in sales to just Tesla alone, not accounting for any other competitors.

Horrendous sales numbers, failed strategy, ousted CEO = failure.


Back on topic of the new g8x design: there's bravery, and then there's hold-my-beer stupidity ... which is this? Well, a lead designer usually doesn't put out a letter defending bravery.
I think his statements must be taken in context. I don't think he's defending. Rather, I think he's explaining the reasoning behind the decisiveness of the design and offering his perspective. The grilles are controversial, so people are going to be inquiring about the impetus for the design for the foreseeable future. Every interview(er) will undoubtedly ask, "Why?", along with the expected supplemental questions.
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      10-12-2019, 12:24 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You aren't the only one. Lots of people will like the car.
They better if they buy it because they're going to be stuck with it for a long loonnggg time as those resale prices drop through the floor.

Brave be the Beaver buyers!

[SIZE="1"](the lease deals post facelift will be epic!)[/SIZE]
Maybe........or maybe not! Only time will tell.
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      10-12-2019, 12:25 AM   #211
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Consumers will vote with their wallets. My vote will be NO.
I always wonder why people say things like this. Who cares? Certainly not BMW as sales have been good this year outselling MB in September. In the consumer world you don't really matter as an individual as there's always a lineup of people that will take your place purchasing the product. Your NO vote isn't hurting BMW.
Let me unpack this for you bud. What you have is a text book "straw man" argument.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

I stated 2 facts.

1. Consumers will vote with their wallets. This is an undisputed fact. Some will buy the car and some won't.

2. I will not.

Your straw man argument states that I believe BMW cares what I do and that I matter as an individual.

It may turn out that new Frankengrille will be a sales hit. It may not. I simply stated that I will not buy the car. I did it on a car forum under a relevant topic.
Rant over.
If you don't believe that bmw cares about your opinion, then why proclaim your intentions on a public forum?
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      10-12-2019, 12:36 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You aren't the only one. Lots of people will like the car.
They better if they buy it because they're going to be stuck with it for a long loonnggg time as those resale prices drop through the floor.

Brave be the Beaver buyers!

[SIZE="1"](the lease deals post facelift will be epic!)[/SIZE]
No signs that the big grills have hurt 3 series sales (or others) thus far.
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      10-12-2019, 12:41 AM   #213
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Maybe........or maybe not! Only time will tell.
That's the bravery!

(1.) Let's agree many long time M3/4 owners aren't happy with this design - posts would indicate that's a reasonable assumption.

(2.) If we haters decline to buy the launch beaver it means, at best, we're waiting, and at worst we bought something else and are lost for a cycle. Again, feels like a safe assumption.

(3.) If BMW cannot replace all of us with new buyers well beyond normal growth / replacement then sales will drop and BMW is already in trouble with margins (thus Krueger's ouster). Simple math.

(4.) Thus BMW will have no choice but to rather quickly announce a facelift (let's say 12 months), if only to keep the waiters waiting and on the hook.

(5.) At that point launch beaver car value plummets, and this would only be exacerbated by people who did buy, but can't stomach it or get mercilessly ridiculed by their friends.

Even if I liked this design, those assumptions don't seem unreasonable, thus the bravery, cause those launch beaver buyers will either take a bath to exit the beaver or have to be happy with their new look, including after those facelifted cars come out.

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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      10-12-2019, 12:48 AM   #214
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Maybe........or maybe not! Only time will tell.
That's the bravery!

(1.) Let's agree many long time M3/4 owners aren't happy with this design - posts would indicate that's a reasonable assumption.

(2.) If we haters decline to buy the launch beaver it means, at best, we're waiting, and at worst we bought something else and are lost for a cycle. Again, feels like a safe assumption.

(3.) If BMW cannot replace all of us with new buyers well beyond normal growth / replacement then sales will drop and BMW is already in trouble with margins (thus Krueger's ouster). Simple math.

(4.) Thus BMW will have no choice but to rather quickly announce a facelift (let's say 12 months), if only to keep the waiters waiting and on the hook.

(5.) At that point launch beaver car value plummets, and this would only be exacerbated by people who did buy, but can't stomach it or get mercilessly ridiculed by their friends.

Even if I liked this design, those assumptions don't seem unreasonable, thus the bravery, cause those launch beaver buyers will either take a bath to exit the beaver or have to be happy with their new look, including after those facelifted cars come out.

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9Igu...UXC/source.gif[/IMG]
I agree with everything you've stated. Failure and success are both plausible outcomes.
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      10-12-2019, 12:51 AM   #215
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I agree with everything you've stated. Failure and success are both plausible outcomes.
My point was to illustrate how one manages the financial risk of failure which seems greater with this new design than ever ... and that answer is lease only.

BMW won't have the balls to reflect potential failure in their residuals.
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      10-12-2019, 12:54 AM   #216
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I'm a F80 M3 Competition owner. Was planning on getting the new M3 in a year or so, but with this confirmed design, I'm out. Too damn ugly for me.

Probably just going to hang onto my M3 for a while, maybe pick up a Porsche. Probably my only two options at the moment.
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      10-12-2019, 12:59 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I agree with everything you've stated. Failure and success are both plausible outcomes.
My point was to illustrate how one manages the financial risk of failure which seems greater with this new design than ever ... and that answer is lease only.

BMW won't have the balls to reflect potential failure in their residuals.
I'm hoping that with this risk assessment comes decent lease residuals and low finance rates (...like when BMW's expectations for the E90 ///M3 fell short and they adjusted residuals and started offering 0.9% financing through BMWFS, which many - including me - took advantage of).
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      10-12-2019, 04:14 AM   #218
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Pandering to the Chinese market because that's where the money is
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Originally Posted by phantom7835 View Post
Pandering to the Chinese market because that's where the money is
How do we know the Chinese market likes this?
Good question. Need to drop by the Chinese takeaway and ask.

They do a mean Kung Po chicken 🐔....🤣
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      10-12-2019, 04:17 AM   #219
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I'm a F80 M3 Competition owner. Was planning on getting the new M3 in a year or so, but with this confirmed design, I'm out. Too damn ugly for me.

Probably just going to hang onto my M3 for a while, maybe pick up a Porsche. Probably my only two options at the moment.
Great cars....
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      10-12-2019, 04:19 AM   #220
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Let's not forget that Bangle came up with this...
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