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      08-03-2011, 01:40 PM   #133
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      08-03-2011, 01:56 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post


King of argument by just calling people moron.

Anyways, the case you presented was not valid, you're gave an example a slow traffic going along the flow of the race track. Not facing the wrong direction. Let me remind you, Australian GP 2010, Fernando Alonso was facing the wrong direction, he waited the whole field to get pass.

You can say Paul Di Resta should've seen it coming and thread his car right next to Lewis's. It is apparent that Lewis Hamilton performed a move that Paul di Resta did not expect and spooked him to went off track to avoid.

You can race doesn't mean you have to drive like an ass.

Again, you do not read, the Hamilton incident is independent of the argument I have been making. You really, really, need to learn to read. That is why you are a moron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Re read my post, I was not referencing hamiltons spin at all, just correcting xbooks ridiculous statement that in racing if you spin or have an off you have to wait for everyone to go by and assuming a Fing f1 race is like a amateur drivers education event, it's just stupid.

And you can impede drivers rejoining the track all you damn well please, just because you go off track doesn't mean you're no longer racing, you just cant crash into them and force them off track.

and I still don't think di rossa HAD to go off track, there was still a car width in the racing line, he just flinched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Bolding text and ignoring what directly follows it makes you a moron.

I'll give you a for instance, you go off track, and come back on in front of a driver who caught up with you in the meantime, you are going slower then them and they have to slow not to run into you. According to xbook you can't do this, but it's perfectly legal and is done all the time.

Additionally, had hamilton been farther off the racing line and spun around while traffic was going past he would also have been perfectly fine.

So, back to the original point you are ignoring, you don't just have to sit there till traffic passes, you just can't crash into them or run them off track.

Now quit being a moron and actually read.
So if you would read, I agree hamiltons action was sketch, I FEEL there was still a car width on the racing line, but the point is regardless of what happened or not. IF he had done the same thing farther off the racing line he would have been perfectly within his rights, he does NOT have to wait for traffic to go by. If a driver can right himself without forcing people off track he is entitled to.


If you still don't get that you are reading a different argument than is being presented, you are a moron.
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      08-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Again, you do not read, the Hamilton incident is independent of the argument I have been making. You really, really, need to learn to read. That is why you are a moron.





So if you would read, I agree hamiltons action was sketch, I FEEL there was still a car width on the racing line, but the point is regardless of what happened or not. IF he had done the same thing farther off the racing line he would have been perfectly within his rights, he does NOT have to wait for traffic to go by. If a driver can right himself without forcing people off track he is entitled to.


If you still don't get that you are reading a different argument than is being presented, you are a moron.
Agree on the part where its OK for Lewis to perform the maneuver off track or further away. His action did however caused Paul to took avoidance action, thus the penalty justified.

Disagree on where the driver can "impede others as they wish". That's why there are Sporting Regulations for driver's behaviors on the track.

You are contradicting yourself by saying drivers can impede each other as they wish, and on the other hand saying Hamilton's move was sketchy. Hamilton made a move that caused Di Resta to go off track, that simply put him impeding other drivers. in essence, it is NOT OK for drivers to impede others "as they wish".
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      08-03-2011, 06:29 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
LOL @ comparing courtesy at a DE event to race rules.

It is NOT a rule that you WAIT for other cars to pass before the track is clear to get back on. That is true when you're doing a DE event, but that's because safety is an absolute top priority.

Spinning to right yourself on track in traffic is usually fine off the racing line, f1 drivers know what they are doing and can control their car and put it where they want it, it's not like they are you and might end up 3 car lengths from where they were trying to go.



Don't compare DE events to f1, please. It's ridiculous.
First off, take 5 breaths, calm down, then we can discuss this.

...you calm yet?

I was not trying to compare a normal garden variety track day to an F1 race. You made that comparison. I was asking the guy if he has any track experience, if he had, he would have understood the situation a little better.

So what you are saying is that Hamilton had every right on this planet to make that maneuver, and that the penalty was completely unwarranted?
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      08-03-2011, 06:55 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
I was not trying to compare a normal garden variety track day to an F1 race. You made that comparison. I was asking the guy if he has any track experience, if he had, he would have understood the situation a little better.

So what you are saying is that Hamilton had every right on this planet to make that maneuver, and that the penalty was completely unwarranted?
No you definitely made the comparison, because "waiting for cars to pass after a spin" is not a racing series rule, it's a track day rule.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Question for you:

Have you ever done a track day or been on a race track ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
The reason I ask is because the basic track rule that shouldn't be broken is, if you spin, wait 'til the other cars come by before you try and rejoin. It's not just an F1 rule, it's the same for pretty much every series and track event out there.
If you spin or go off, in racing, you don't wait, you go as soon as you can, weather or not it means another driver has to slow down turn to avoid you or whatever else. With exception I stated from the beginning is if you crash into them or run them off track.

No I didn't say that about hamilton, at all. I only said I THOUGHT he gave a car width on the racing line, from that video, he definitely did not, but that has nothing to do with the argument above.

As another example, if hamilton spun the other way while people were wizzing by, would anyone care? No, because you don't just sit there and wait unless you have no choice but to hit someone.
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      08-03-2011, 08:14 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
If you spin or go off, in racing, you don't wait, you go as soon as you can, weather or not it means another driver has to slow down turn to avoid you or whatever else. With exception I stated from the beginning is if you crash into them or run them off track.
Then why was there a penalty given to Hamilton? Please explain.
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      08-03-2011, 08:29 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Then why was there a penalty given to Hamilton? Please explain.
He ran di Resta off the track?
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      08-03-2011, 09:43 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Then why was there a penalty given to Hamilton? Please explain.
It's literally not possible to be any clearer, I will have to simply assume you are a moron who cannot read as well. It's literally right there in black and white for you.
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      08-03-2011, 09:46 PM   #141
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Well this is getting fun
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      08-03-2011, 10:40 PM   #142
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moˇron (môrn)
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"A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years"


Even my 9yr old nephew knows that if you spin or go off in traffic, in racing, you DO wait. Even more so when it's at an F1 level. No one ever was talking about spinning out in the middle of no where. $0.02
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      08-04-2011, 01:26 AM   #143
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hahaha. we also need a sarcasm font
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      08-04-2011, 09:54 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
It's literally not possible to be any clearer, I will have to simply assume you are a moron who cannot read as well. It's literally right there in black and white for you.
O-Cha,

Yo've never shown your face in these threads about F1, then you come in and just start calling everyone a moron. You need an attitude check! If all you are going to do is call people names, we don't want you here. Please go away.

I am happy to have a debate about F1 in a calm way. Come back when you can discuss things like an adult.
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      08-04-2011, 09:59 AM   #145
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I got in this fight with the guy behind the desk at my computer store. He was talking about hammy and the spin and I just jumped in. Made getting some ram chips and a video card that much more entertaining
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      08-04-2011, 10:41 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I got in this fight with the guy behind the desk at my computer store. He was talking about hammy and the spin and I just jumped in. Made getting some ram chips and a video card that much more entertaining
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      08-04-2011, 10:47 AM   #147
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Renault explained the cause of Heidfeld's explosion in Hungary.
Hotter than normal engine mapping (exhaust blowing hotter than previous races), plus a long pitstop contributed to the crack exhaust. Then overheating the air bottle for engine valves allows it to explode. Its not the KERS battery pack afterall.

Quote:
James Allison has revealed that different engine mapping, a cracked exhaust and a long pit stop were the cause of Nick Heidfeld's Hungarian fire.

Heidfeld was forced to retire from the Hungarian GP when his Renault R31 caught fire after his pit stop. The German parked on the side of the track at the pit lane exit and quickly jumped out.

Marshals arrived at the burning car with fire extinguishers, however, one appeared to be injured when the left side of the car exploded, showering the track with debris.

"As with most accidents, several incidents combined to cause the fire that Nick suffered in Hungary," explained Renault's technical director.

"First of all, we ran a slightly different engine mapping strategy in qualifying, which produced hotter than normal exhausts. We believe that this elevated temperature and caused a preliminary crack in the exhaust pipe.

"We presume that the crack then propagated during the laps to the pit stop - this was not evident to us as we believe that the failure occurred upstream of the place where we have a temperature sensor. We believe that Nick then came in with a partially failed exhaust.

"This pit stop took longer than normal, the engine was left at high rpm for 6.3 sec, waiting for the tyre change to be completed.

"Under these conditions, a lot of excess fuel always ends up in the exhausts and their temperature rises at around 100°C/sec. This temperature rise was enough to finish off the partially failed pipe and to start a moderate fire under the bodywork."

As for the explosion, Allison said that "this was caused by the air bottle which supplies the air valves in the engine. It has overheated in the fire and failed."

The team has already spoken with the FIA about their findings with Allison saying they are doing everything to ensure there won't be a repeat of the incident.

"The incident was highly undesirable, as it has caused us to write off a chassis.

"We will take steps prior to the next race to reduce the likelihood of a further fire and to ensure that the air bottle cannot overheat.

"We are in touch with the FIA both to provide them with a full report of the incident and also to explain to them the actions we are taking to prevent a re-occurrence."
http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/708...idfeld-s-blaze
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      08-04-2011, 11:30 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
Even my 9yr old nephew knows that if you spin or go off in traffic, in racing, you DO wait. Even more so when it's at an F1 level. No one ever was talking about spinning out in the middle of no where. $0.02
I stated from the beginning and several times after that I was not talking about hamiltons spin at all when saying you do not have to wait for traffic to pass before rejoining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
O-Cha,

Yo've never shown your face in these threads about F1, then you come in and just start calling everyone a moron. You need an attitude check! If all you are going to do is call people names, we don't want you here. Please go away.

I am happy to have a debate about F1 in a calm way. Come back when you can discuss things like an adult.
Just calling people with the inability to read things in black and white morons, I explicitly stated in the posts you were replying to answer to your questions.
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      08-04-2011, 12:51 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
O-Cha,

Yo've never shown your face in these threads about F1, then you come in and just start calling everyone a moron. You need an attitude check! If all you are going to do is call people names, we don't want you here. Please go away.

I am happy to have a debate about F1 in a calm way. Come back when you can discuss things like an adult.
In all fairness, I've seen him in the F1 threads before.

I still find it discouraging though that poeple can't tell the difference between just making a bad move, vs making a move that is bad but better than any other option you have. Everything is relative. A large part of this depends on your perspective. Are you looking at from the perspective of Hamilton in the cockpit, or a spectator who might not really want him to succeed.

At this point, no one is refuting that the manuever was unsafe. It was a forced spin within close proximity of other cars moving at speed. So, it's safe to say this will always be considered dangerous. However, these drivers aren't just at a track day. They are racing, and racing to win. (I'll draw reference again that he was leading the race at the point when he spun.) The penalty that he got wasn't because it was dangerous, as anyone could argue that racing itself is inherently dangerous. To be clear, He got the penalty for breaking the rules prescribed by E90 a page or so back and impeding another driver by forcing them off the track.

And I would disagree that my understanding of the situation was incomplete. I feel my understanding is balanced. I understand the need to uphold safety, this is common sense. I don't need to have done a track day to know what a close call looks like while driving, I see it every day with all the pickup trucks here. However, you must recognise that they aren't just at a track day. They are racing. This alone should be enough of an explanation, and if you don't believe me then go watch 'Senna' again please.
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      08-04-2011, 01:50 PM   #150
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^ Well said.

Haven't posted in this thread, my BBC player crapped out again and had to watch later on sunday

What an amazing race though. For me, revelaed a lot about JB's driving style and composure. And though it's only my 2nd season watching, I feel like SV can stretch his legs. 4-5 solid races from him and he can wrap up the season.

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      08-04-2011, 02:03 PM   #151
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Ok, point taken he has been here in the past. But that doesn't give him the right to just start calling people morons.
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      08-04-2011, 03:59 PM   #152
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I don't agree w/ people calling each other names, specially in this thread since its always the same group of guys and I like pretty much everyone who posts here

BUT

some of you guys are doing some selective reading when it comes to O-Cha's posts, he really could not be more clear by what he's trying to say, which has nothing to do w/ LH spin out but rather a comment by xbook earlier in the thread
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      08-04-2011, 06:05 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KANdaddy View Post
Exactly....I argree with you 100%...this is a penalty based on safety and had nothing to do with who was in position, or a back-marker, etc. When you spin you have to WAIT until it is safe to rejoin...doesn't matter if you are in first, last or the fastest or slowest car on the circuit. And YES sometimes the safest option means sitting still in the middle of the track while the others get by safely before you rejoin the fray. In the situation LH was in, staying still was the safest option. He made an unsafe maneuver so he was penalized.

During a BMWCCA race at Willow Springs, I spun my e46 M3 exiting turn 9. This left me in the middle of the track facing the opposite direction as several other cars exited the turn leading to the front straight. It was scary but I held tight, realizing my fellow competitors would see me and avoid me. As soon as they got around me, I spun the car around and rejoined the fray. Afterwards, many of my fellow racers came to me to thank me for handling that situation in such a calm and smart manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Re read my post, I was not referencing hamiltons spin at all, just correcting xbooks ridiculous statement that in racing if you spin or have an off you have to wait for everyone to go by and assuming a Fing f1 race is like a amateur drivers education event, it's just stupid.

And you can impede drivers rejoining the track all you damn well please, just because you go off track doesn't mean you're no longer racing, you just cant crash into them and force them off track.

and I still don't think di rossa HAD to go off track, there was still a car width in the racing line, he just flinched.
Ocha, by extension KANdaddy's opinion should be ridiculous as well. Do you agree?
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