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      09-03-2019, 06:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
I guess engine load is different in each gear ? MHD recommend 4th gear with DSC off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT500R View Post
Load is different and therefore so will boost or timing.
Again, why would load be different. Doesn't make any sense.

Stage 1 3rd Gear: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d5a1459ae729b5f706741e8
Stage 1 4th Gear: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d5a1463ae729b5f706741e9

Like I said, post logs to show what you're talking about so we can fill this thread up with data. At least with bootmod3 there's no difference between gears. Boost, timing, and load are all the same. Load is primarily based on RPM and throttle angle, not gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Also your timing advance is quite low I guess with a bit less boost or higher octane you will get better timing and more power.

That's what happened to me when I increased the boost timing retarded which resulted to lower top end power.

I learned that more boost not always equal more power, Ignition timing is the key, If we don't get a good combustion then the extra boost is useless.

Also how do you make your own tune ? I wish I could do that.
I was planning on tuning my own car but I'm going to wait until I can get dyno time for this very reason. It's typical to keep upping the boost and then add timing until it begins to knock, but you don't make the most power that way. You need to put it on a dyno to really tell if you're making more power with the changes you make.

I agree, our cars seem to like timing more that boost.
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      09-03-2019, 09:12 AM   #24
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Yup because it's a high compression engine 11:1 it loves high octane

The newer B58 in the M340i has lower compression 10.2:1 which can use more boost.

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Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
I agree, our cars seem to like timing more that boost.
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      09-03-2019, 10:24 AM   #25
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Car: 2019 M240i xdrive M Performance Edition
Mods: BM3 Stg 2 E30 OTS, xHP Stg 3 TCU Flash, ER Catless Downpipe. MPPSK Exhaust, FTP Intake + Intake Pipe, FTP Chargepipe, NGK 94201 gapped to .022
Fuel used: E30 (Mobil 93 + Mobil E85)
Gear: 3rd - 2500rpm to 6650rpm shifting into 4th.
IAT: 101f
Boost: 16 PSI
AFR: 12.84
Timing: 14.5 degrees

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d5f4d0cc090c6120e71fd12
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      09-03-2019, 10:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Car: 2019 M240i xdrive M Performance Edition
Mods: BM3 Stg 2 E30 OTS, xHP Stg 3 TCU Flash, ER Catless Downpipe. MPPSK Exhaust, FTP Intake + Intake Pipe, FTP Chargepipe, NGK 94201 gapped to .022
Fuel used: E30 (Mobil 93 + Mobil E85)
Gear: 3rd - 2500rpm to 6650rpm shifting into 4th.
IAT: 101f
Boost: 16 PSI
AFR: 12.84
Timing: 14.5 degrees

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d5f4d0cc090c6120e71fd12
Thanks, I'll update the baseline figures. I think it's strange that BM3 stage 2 logs tend to show big boost spikes and throttle closures. You peaked at over 22psi. I feel like they need to update their OTS maps for more progressive boost onset. How does it feel?
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      09-03-2019, 10:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Thanks, I'll update the baseline figures. I think it's strange that BM3 stage 2 logs tend to show big boost spikes and throttle closures. You peaked at over 22psi. I feel like they need to update their OTS maps for more progressive boost onset. How does it feel?
It's kind of annoying to be honest. I opened a ticket with PTF about the throttle closure issue and Halim said through adaptation, the throttle closure issue should take care of itself. However, that has not been the case. You can definitely feel it in 3rd and 4th gear when you floor it. It feels like the car isn't going or hesitating then it blasts off. I'd give up the blast off feeling for a more progressive/linear onset. I feel like its hurting my numbers too (1/4 and 60-130mph).
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      09-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #28
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https://datazap.me/u/ims/log-1565091454?log=0&data=3-16
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      09-03-2019, 12:55 PM   #29
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Can someone look at this? It's on bm3 stage 2 93 octane

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5ba2ae729b405635f152

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5b82ae729b405635f151


I'm worried about the knock, should I be?
Anything else to look at?
Thank you guys

Last edited by msk340i; 09-03-2019 at 01:07 PM..
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      09-03-2019, 01:33 PM   #30
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I don't get it why are you worried ? your detected knock is zero.

Unless you are hearing pinging sound from the engine then you should be worried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Can someone look at this? It's on bm3 stage 2 93 octane

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5ba2ae729b405635f152

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5b82ae729b405635f151


I'm worried about the knock, should I be?
Anything else to look at?
Thank you guys
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      09-03-2019, 02:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
I don't get it why are you worried ? your detected knock is zero.

Unless you are hearing pinging sound from the engine then you should be worried.
The second log shows two knock events, no?
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      09-03-2019, 02:26 PM   #32
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You mean the 2 spikes at 2000 and 2500 RPM ? That's minor knocks.

You worry if knock are higher and last far more than that.

It could also be a misfire not a knock.

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Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
The second log shows two knock events, no?

Last edited by IMS-340MP; 09-03-2019 at 02:34 PM..
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      09-03-2019, 02:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
You mean the 2 spikes at 2000 and 2500 RPM ? That's minor knocks.

You worry if knock are higher and last far more than that.

It could also be a misfire not a knock.
Got it! That's why I asked you guys 😂 thanks a lot.
Everything else looks ok?
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      09-03-2019, 03:02 PM   #34
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Yes at 6500 RPM and 16 PSI boost your timing is around 12 is very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Got it! That's why I asked you guys 😂 thanks a lot.
Everything else looks ok?
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      09-03-2019, 03:44 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Yes at 6500 RPM and 16 PSI boost your timing is around 12 is very good.
I don't know what that means but I totally trust you internet stranger 😜
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      09-03-2019, 03:49 PM   #36
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If the engine is knocking your timing will be much lower than 12, In technical terms it will "Retard"

The Internet Stranger

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I don't know what that means but I totally trust you internet stranger 😜
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      09-03-2019, 08:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post

I agree, our cars seem to like timing more that boost.

How was this determined? Generally higher compression ratio cars do extraordinary with gains when adding boost... i.e. the 5.0 with a supercharger is a beast due to high compression motor.
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      09-03-2019, 08:50 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Can someone look at this? It's on bm3 stage 2 93 octane

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5ba2ae729b405635f152

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6e5b82ae729b405635f151


I'm worried about the knock, should I be?
Anything else to look at?
Thank you guys
As a rule of thumb, do not floor it at that low of an rpm. Either downshift or only push partial throttle. Flooring it at low rpm can cause knock.

When you log, start above 2000rpm. That's the main difference I see between your too logs and likely what caused the knock in the second log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT500R View Post
How was this determined? Generally higher compression ratio cars do extraordinary with gains when adding boost... i.e. the 5.0 with a supercharger is a beast due to high compression motor.
I've experienced the opposite. Typically you lower the compression ratio to add more boost. Otherwise you need to rely on timing to make good power. It just seems like on our cars, adding a lot more boost doesn't make a lot more power. I'm not sure if the turbo is limited or if the engine just doesn't respond as well to it. But regardless there will be a point where efficiency is at its peak, and then adding more boost pressure just creates more heat.

Until I get on a dyno and adjust my tune I can't say for certain. Just what I'm seeing to be typical since our tunes rarely push over 20 psi.
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      09-03-2019, 10:21 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Is "load act. %" the actual load?
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      09-04-2019, 04:44 AM   #40
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Guys you are missing the key factor here, OCTANE.

Yes high compression and high boost should have great power assuming using very high octane fuel.

High compression + high boost = knock > Retarded timing > Less power.

Add the appropriate octane fuel to the equation and you are fine, also putting into consideration ambient temperature.

I witnessed this personally when I ran stage 1 with more boost than MPPSK I actually had less power at top end as the only fuel available here is like 88 octane.

Even with MPPSK and only 14 PSI of boost at 6500 RPM my timing is around 8-10 degrees which is very bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT500R View Post
How was this determined? Generally higher compression ratio cars do extraordinary with gains when adding boost... i.e. the 5.0 with a supercharger is a beast due to high compression motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
I've experienced the opposite. Typically you lower the compression ratio to add more boost. Otherwise you need to rely on timing to make good power. It just seems like on our cars, adding a lot more boost doesn't make a lot more power. I'm not sure if the turbo is limited or if the engine just doesn't respond as well to it. But regardless there will be a point where efficiency is at its peak, and then adding more boost pressure just creates more heat.

Until I get on a dyno and adjust my tune I can't say for certain. Just what I'm seeing to be typical since our tunes rarely push over 20 psi.

Last edited by IMS-340MP; 09-04-2019 at 05:14 AM..
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      09-04-2019, 04:58 AM   #41
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I guess so, why I feel suspicious in your question

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Originally Posted by GT500R View Post
Is "load act. %" the actual load?
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      09-04-2019, 06:42 AM   #42
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Stage 1 E30 logs. I always have one cylinder lagging behind, but it tends to catch up by redline. It looks like everything is the same except they increased the timing to 15. It definitely feels faster than 93.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6f91bdc090c652e3aa365c
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d6f91bec090c652e3aa365d
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      09-04-2019, 06:48 AM   #43
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So one of the reasons I made this thread is being shown. I'm having trouble seeing the difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2. Are there any other stage 2 logs out there? I thought it had a higher boost target. And I don't really see how it's taking advantage of a downpipe or why it's needed.
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      09-04-2019, 08:59 AM   #44
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I was also wondering the same thing, what's the difference in tuning between stage 1 and stage 2 same octane.

We know Decat release exhaust gases out of the cylinders faster but how can we benefit from that in terms of tuning ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
So one of the reasons I made this thread is being shown. I'm having trouble seeing the difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2. Are there any other stage 2 logs out there? I thought it had a higher boost target. And I don't really see how it's taking advantage of a downpipe or why it's needed.
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