[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

For those that pine for a modern 8er...


It is called the 6er now.

Thats what I don't get about BMW. Why doesn't BMW make an 8-Series and then move the 6er back down market, so it can be a real 5-Series coupe.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

MB does frameless windows on many of their cars without such a thick b-pillar. Having driven a few rental sedans with thick b-pillars, I find it to be a terrible blind spot, as it's right where I look when looking over my shoulder. Regardless, this whole class of car, CLS, A7, A5 Sportback is generally pretty ugly in my opinon, the 6 GT being the first car in the class that I like (at least in pictures, I haven't seen one in person yet).

It's good looking in person, although it's a car that really benefits from choosing the "right" color. Not that it looks bad in any color, but it certainly looks better in some colors than in others.

I spent 30 minutes test driving a 640 four door this past Friday. I think now I know why the call these things coupes. It's so consumers won't expect there to be any room in the rear seats, because Lord knows there isn't much to speak of. These gran coupes are essentially very big, four-door cars with no room in the back seat. (It has more or less what seems to be the same amount of legroom as an E46 coupe. If they were to make a 640Li, the car would make some sense to me. As it is, despite loving the looks of the thing, I doubt I'd spend nearly $100 on a large 4 door with no space in the back. (I think people still expect a sensible amount of room in the rear on a four door car, even if the maker calls it a coupe.)

It's very big on the outside, yet smaller than the F30 (by a lot) in general on the inside, albeit considerably more plush. Unlike the F30, it's steering feel is pretty similar to that of my E92 but a tab bit more dampened and a slight bit less heavy. It's power is more than sufficient for typical use.

If/when BMW come up with a 4er four door, I would think it a better choice than the 6er, particularly if it offers even as much space as the current E92 in the rear. But as the F30 is considerably larger than the E90, I would think that a 4er gran coupe based on the F30's platform would also offer a sensible rear seat. One can only hope; we all know automotive execs seem to have moments of lunacy far more often than do the general population.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

MB does frameless windows on many of their cars without such a thick b-pillar. Having driven a few rental sedans with thick b-pillars, I find it to be a terrible blind spot, as it's right where I look when looking over my shoulder. Regardless, this whole class of car, CLS, A7, A5 Sportback is generally pretty ugly in my opinon, the 6 GT being the first car in the class that I like (at least in pictures, I haven't seen one in person yet).

You dont need to look over your shoulder with the side mirrors that remove blind spots..

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The Extra rear glass after the rear door .

This has never been on a BMW four door because the BMW symbolic hofmeister kink is always integrated on the rear door opening.
It is more elegant , models like the Touring and the X line need them to break up the expanse of metal around the C-Pillars.

BMW designers are against that as are engineers about lack of B-Pillars which compromises structural rigidity. As was found on the E31 BMW 8er Coupe.
So much so that had the late eighties early nineties recession not kicked in , that Wolfgang Reitzle the characteristic R&D boss wanted to re-engineer a B-pillar into the car.
A feat he achieved with the BMW M8 which included a B-Pillar that helped to bring about a substantial transformation of the car. But the crisis at the time killed the M8 and the BMW 850i Cabrio, but it did bring a more cost-effective 840i for those that "struggled" to reach for the 850i.

For those that pine for a modern 8er...


It is called the 6er now.

As someone who grew up dreaming about the 850i, and as someone who currently appreciates both the current and previous gen 6ers, I cannot accept this. No way does the 6er replace the 850i. That car was so special and even today it looks beautiful and invokes emotion like few other cars are capable of. The new 6er is beautiful, but an 850i replacement, it is not.

[Pavit]

The lines are very nice on this GT, the rendered picture showing off the rear is also nice, will the 3er GT front be same looking as current 3er Sedans or different as the initial descriptions that a GT variant would be in a league of its own in terms of individuality and looks?

Though up to now the 3 GT looks like my next car ;-)

[southlight]

Originally Posted by EnI

You might be right after all. The differences are slight but they are there. Eg. the B-pillar is also of slightly different shape. And rear side window has a bit different shape (therefore the difference between triangle & trapezoid shape of the smaller window). The roof seems to be quite lower, the rear window smaller, the trunk longer. etc. And the latest prototype has the exactly the same front as 4er prototypes.

Either they revised the 3er GT which would seem very odd in this late phase just before FEP starts, or ...

Is it possible this is 4er Gran Tourer / active Tourer? A 5dr fastback coupe ala A5? Mind BMW just registered 2er Active Tourer / Gran Tourer trademark. And there are rumors BMW will offer some sort of 5dr coupe fastback in 2er form. Perhaps a 5dr 4er GT / AT is also coming.

Any news on that?

Man, the mystery continues...


Best regards,
south

[EnI]

New spy photos: http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-m...o-photo-466226

This car sits too low, the roof line is too low to be 3er GT!

Also, look at the door panels styling. It's the same as seen on 4er Coupe prototype! And the front is identical as well.

4er Coupe:

http://media.caranddriver.com/images...s-1280x782.jpg

It's definitely a 4er-based vehicle! This could indeed be a 4er GC / GT prototype! Yet the kink & D-pillar somehow indicate a 5dr fastback layout (ala Audi A5 SB). Will they badge it 4er GC, or 4er GT after all??? o_O

So, I stand corrected! It's not a 3er GT prototype but 4er GC /GT one!

Sorry for all the confusion.

[southlight]

It makes no sense to have two models that are as similar as these cars. So it's either that BMW has decided to move the GT up to 4 series (does that mean no GC at all?) or they've just revised the car heavily.

Also, this car is in a fairly good/advanced stage which kinda speaks for this being a 3GT and not an all new car we haven't seen before.


Best regards,
south

[EnI]

Now with latest spy photos available I was able to examine the prototypes closer. This prototype is definitely 4er based. The front is identical, the side character lines are identical, the rear is almost identical. The car seats low, it has low roof line, greenohouse is very coupeish. It's a 4dr coupe / 5dr fastback. And especially the D-pillar & extra side window after the C-pillar indicates the 5dr layout. And the only BMW cars with such layout are Tourings, SAVs, SACs & GT. Sedans, Coupes & Gran Coupe have the kink in C-pillar.

And as said: with 2er Gran Tourer / Active Tourer trademark registered by BMW (indicating a coupeish fastback), it seems 4er Gran Tourer / Active Tourer is possible. So 2er & 4er will offer a Gran Tourer / Active Tourer instead of true 4dr coupe ala 6er Gran Coupe. And with 5dr fastback available, there won't be a Gran Touring shooting brake at all in 2er & 4er model line. While there will be one along 6er GC.

Comparing 3er GT to 3er Sedan and to 4er GT, it seems 4er GT will be less practical & sportier than both other models, while 3er GT will be more comfortable & spacious than sedan & the 4er GT.

Sure 4er GT is in this stage of development already since it's just a derivate of 4er coupe. Canceling 3er GT or revising the car so heavily just ahead of FEP testing would be a fiasco of epic proportions, and heads would roll.

I'm now sure both cars are coming. This one, and the 3er GT as well (in 5er GT style: elevated sitting position, hatchback, roomier etc).

But I agree it's weird. I didn't expect that coming: a 5dr 4er.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by EnI

Now with latest spy photos available I was able to examine the prototypes closer. This prototype is definitely 4er based. The front is identical, the side character lines are identical, the rear is almost identical. The car seats low, it has low roof line, greenohouse is very coupeish. It's a 4dr coupe / 5dr fastback. And especially the D-pillar & extra side window after the C-pillar indicates the 5dr layout. And the only BMW cars with such layout are Tourings, SAVs, SACs & GT. Sedans, Coupes & Gran Coupe have the kink in C-pillar.

And as said: with 2er Gran Tourer / Active Tourer trademark registered by BMW (indicating a coupeish fastback), it seems 4er Gran Tourer / Active Tourer is possible. So 2er & 4er will offer a Gran Tourer / Active Tourer instead of true 4dr coupe ala 6er Gran Coupe. And with 5dr fastback available, there won't be a Gran Touring shooting brake at all in 2er & 4er model line. While there will be one along 6er GC.

Comparing 3er GT to 3er Sedan and to 4er GT, it seems 4er GT will be less practical & sportier than both other models, while 3er GT will be more comfortable & spacious than sedan & the 4er GT.

Sure 4er GT is in this stage of development already since it's just a derivate of 4er coupe. Canceling 3er GT or revising the car so heavily just ahead of FEP testing would be a fiasco of epic proportions, and heads would roll.

I'm now sure both cars are coming. This one, and the 3er GT as well (in 5er GT style: elevated sitting position, hatchback, roomier etc).

But I agree it's weird. I didn't expect that coming: a 5dr 4er.

Good analysis, thanks for that. But I fail to see the sense in offering another 5-door hatchback instead of a 4er Gran Coupe. There are hardly enough customers for a 3er GT, let alone both a 3er and a 4er GT.


Best regards,
south

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by flinchy

You dont need to look over your shoulder with the side mirrors that remove blind spots..

I hope the potential misfortune accompanying that perception doesn't befall you.

Consider the driver off your driver's side rear corner and two lanes over from you who is accelerating into the empty lane between you and them. Without turning your head, you cannot see that driver/car, and with the right timing and disinterest, you two could collide. Though that is the only situation that comes readily to mind, there are undoubtedly others.

Now it may be that the blind spot warning option mitigates the risk to some degree, but I am not yet ready to yield the responsibility for my safety or defensive driving to that system. Regardless of the statistical odds that such events converge to cause an accident, they only need do once to you to be catastrophic. For my part, I hope all parties involved live to rue their perfunctory driving.

[kooper]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

MB does frameless windows on many of their cars without such a thick b-pillar. Having driven a few rental sedans with thick b-pillars, I find it to be a terrible blind spot, as it's right where I look when looking over my shoulder. Regardless, this whole class of car, CLS, A7, A5 Sportback is generally pretty ugly in my opinon, the 6 GT being the first car in the class that I like (at least in pictures, I haven't seen one in person yet).

I know MB does frameless windows with thinner B pillars, in some case without any B pillar of any kind.

BMW on the other hand like their thick B pillars. They did the same thing with the previous 6 Series, apparently the reason being to keep the body as rigid as possible.

I understand your point about it causing problems if you look over your shoulder (I suspect when changing lanes?). I have more or less the same problem with the ever increasing sloped front windscreens of modern cars where the A pillars cause blindspots in your forward field of vision, but that's probably beside the point.
I doubt the B pillars in this case are significantly wider than what you'd find on a normal 4-door E90 for instance. I could be completely wrong, but I think it just looks wider because of the frameless windows.

EDIT: Probably worth noting that manufacturers could probably get away without a B pillar in a coupe body design, but in a 4-door design (like this), the roof is quite a bit longer. I sincerely doubt you'd see a design without a B pillar of some sort on modern 4 door cars, and if you do, it would probably handle like a French Fry.

Whatever the case may be, I completely agree with you about the new 4-door-that's-based-on-the-2-door-that's-based-on-the-4-door madness currently going on. Sure new niches may sell up a storm, but we don't have to like it.

[jwickers]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I hope the potential misfortune accompanying that perception doesn't befall you.

Consider the driver off your driver's side rear corner and two lanes over from you who is accelerating into the empty lane between you and them. Without turning your head, you cannot see that driver/car, and with the right timing and disinterest, you two could collide. Though that is the only situation that comes readily to mind, there are undoubtedly others.

Now it may be that the blind spot warning option mitigates the risk to some degree, but I am not yet ready to yield the responsibility for my safety or defensive driving to that system. Regardless of the statistical odds that such events converge to cause an accident, they only need do once to you to be catastrophic. For my part, I hope all parties involved live to rue their perfunctory driving.

I think he was talking about the side mirrors, they have a wide angle part that allows to reduce the blind spot.
But yes whatever the car, the driver should always look over. Not doing it is a bad habit.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by southlight

Good analysis, thanks for that. But I fail to see the sense in offering another 5-door hatchback instead of a 4er Gran Coupe. There are hardly enough customers for a 3er GT, let alone both a 3er and a 4er GT.


Best regards,
south

Why do you think this is a 5 door? Camo can hide or add whatever they want. The Paceman had rear doors added on in camo to confuse the situation...

I personally think this 4GC.

[SCOTT26]

Apologies BimmerPost friends.

By having a look earlier I started to have doubts to see if I was accurate or not, I did know that the 3er GT was heavily camouflaged at the rear to put the scent off and I presumed this was it after the camouflage comes off.
I checked the FEP 3er GT in Munich today and it appears it is not the case.
You know how good the disguise is when it even fools your own employees.
I am currently far too busy in my current role to check on updates.

Having spoken to someone today who is familiar with the car I can now confirm the car in the photographs is indeed the BMW 4er Gran Coupe.
The car is cleverly disguised especially around the rear door line that merges into the rear door and the hofmesiter kick is actually partially covered by a layer of camouflage. The rear hofmesiter kick is very reminiscient of the door line featured on the 2007 BMW CS Concept Car as is the shortened trunk.
The car is a full four door with a full trunk and not a hatch , it is essentially a four door 4er Coupe.
And it will be with us in 2014. This car will also feature as an M4 Gran Coupe. A more flexible and stylish and of course expensive M3 if you will.

[BMW269]

Nice. It looks like the M4 GranCoupé is not that far ahead.


BMW 4er GC


BMW CS Concept



I see what is going on.

[wac77]

Hi Scott,

I normally take your word as gold, but this time I don't think so. The car in the pic is clearly a hatchback, with extra windows behind the rear doors. So not a 4 GC.

Moreover, I have seen the 3 GT in the flesh at a BMW clinic, huge pillars and all, and I am convinced it is the car in the pics, although the camo is now like those used in the 4er prototypes.

My 2 cents.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Apologies BimmerPost friends.

By having a look earlier I started to have doubts to see if I was accurate or not, I did know that the 3er GT was heavily camouflaged at the rear to put the scent off and I presumed this was it after the camouflage comes off.
I checked the FEP 3er GT in Munich today and it appears it is not the case.
You know how good the disguise is when it even fools your own employees.
I am currently far too busy in my current role to check on updates.

Having spoken to someone today who is familiar with the car I can now confirm the car in the photographs is indeed the BMW 4er Gran Coupe.
The car is cleverly disguised especially around the rear door line that merges into the rear door and the hofmesiter kick is actually partially covered by a layer of camouflage. The rear hofmesiter kick is very reminiscient of the door line featured on the 2007 BMW CS Concept Car as is the shortened trunk.
The car is a full four door with a full trunk and not a hatch , it is essentially a four door 4er Coupe.
And it will be with us in 2014. This car will also feature as an M4 Gran Coupe. A more flexible and stylish and of course expensive M3 if you will.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by wac77

Hi Scott,

I normally take your word as gold, but this time I don't think so. The car in the pic is clearly a hatchback, with extra windows behind the rear doors. So not a 4 GC.

Moreover, I have seen the 3 GT in the flesh at a BMW clinic, huge pillars and all, and I am convinced it is the car in the pics, although the camo is now like those used in the 4er prototypes.

My 2 cents.

What ever it is he is right in saying that BMW has started to put fake lines in the car's camo.

[mapezzul]

I am now totally not sure what this is... BMW has proved its point and they can make camo for camo.

If you look at the profile shots- look through the rear door window at the opposite window- you can see the exterior camo and how it does not match up with the interior trim- but maybe that is camo also? If not, what they did was use the 4 camo on the 3 GT bc that interior trim pillar on the passenger side is huge and will not be on the 4 GC. But this looks to ride lower now if it is the 3 GT.

[Oliver1]

Originally Posted by wac77

Hi Scott,

I normally take your word as gold, but this time I don't think so. The car in the pic is clearly a hatchback, with extra windows behind the rear doors. So not a 4 GC.

Moreover, I have seen the 3 GT in the flesh at a BMW clinic, huge pillars and all, and I am convinced it is the car in the pics, although the camo is now like those used in the 4er prototypes.

My 2 cents.

It is the GC. It sits to low and the roof line is to rounded for it to be the GT. I think what you will find when the cars come out that the rear doors with the extra window style will carry over from the GT.

[wac77]

Originally Posted by Oliver1

It is the GC. It sits to low and the roof line is to rounded for it to be the GT. I think what you will find when the cars come out that the rear doors with the extra window style will carry over from the GT.

That extra window behind the rear door is something Scott assured us it would not appear in sedans or GCs.

[SCOTT26]

Had a look at the prototype earlier , It is definitely a four door with conventional trunk. The upper part of the door line is camouflaged with the panel but also some rubber tubing which make it look like a door opening.
The hofmeister is sharp like the Coupe another clue is if you compare the interior shot of the pillar it does not match up with the exterior shot.

This is the more semi-commanding appearance of the 3er GT.
It fuses its appearance with more Coupe-hatch roof. Unlike this Gran Coupe which has some extra packaging tacked on to the rear and covered up to disguise some of the svelte lines.