[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I would reach out to Dorch directly and ask them both questions - if their N55 and B58 pumps are different, and if it is not OK to run the B58 on the N55. My understanding is the cam lobe on the B58 is indeed different, which is why the same HPFP will flow slightly higher on the B58 than the N55.

FYI- below is one of several engineering differences that make the B58TU pump ultimately incompatible with the N55 engine.

The piston diameter of the HDP6 (10mm) is larger than that of the HDP5 (9mm). Due to the higher hydr. Force and the higher force of the piston spring creates a higher load on the drive elements -> higher load on the drive shaft and the roller tappet, i.e. reduced lifespan.

[Bowenpuref3p]

Originally Posted by johnung

FYI- below is one of several engineering differences that make the B58TU pump ultimately incompatible with the N55 engine.

The piston diameter of the HDP6 (10mm) is larger than that of the HDP5 (9mm). Due to the higher hydr. Force and the higher force of the piston spring creates a higher load on the drive elements -> higher load on the drive shaft and the roller tappet, i.e. reduced lifespan.

So I contacted dorch about the difference in designs between their b58 and n55 hpfp and retrofited b58 HDP5 hpfp. They said a n55 has the same plunger as the regular b58 HDP5 hpfp and you can run it without any risk of damage. But the b58tu HDP6 hpfp does have a few differences that could damage your cam lobes if used long term. Luckily I have the regular b58 hpfp retrofit and will be upgrading to a dorch pump as soon as I get my pure stg2 turbo installed. So it looks like your information agrees with what dorch told me today

[ZM2]

Halim is looking for another beta tester to try the new BM3 OTS Stg 2+ E30-40 map before finalizing the OTS version. Requirements:

-N55 EWG
-Stock turbo
-FBO
-Aftermarket HPFP installed
-Can immediately send Stg 2 E30 logs for review
-Can do logs on his new map this coming week
-Can get on a Dynojet (no other dyno types) in the next 1-2-weeks
-Will dyno Stock, Stg 2 E30, and Stg 2+ E30-40 tunes during the same dyno session

PM me if you meet the above.

[JerryBMW]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Log for this tune / 11sec run?

This is my log for the 11sec run

https://datazap.me/u/jerrybmw/spool-...og=0&data=4-19

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by JerryBMW

This is my log for the 11sec run

https://datazap.me/u/jerrybmw/spool-...og=0&data=4-19

Thank you! will dig into this more later. I just updated the full e85 thread because i am trying to compile data/examples of people running full E85 on stock turbo stock LPFP.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by JerryBMW

This is my log for the 11sec run

https://datazap.me/u/jerrybmw/spool-...og=0&data=4-19

Do you possibly have the log when you ran the 12.7 run... that's a major improvement... starting to look the $3000 investment is worth it if I go Fx150 MHD tune...

[5w20]

Originally Posted by JerryBMW

This is my log for the 11sec run

https://datazap.me/u/jerrybmw/spool-...og=0&data=4-19

By any chance do you still have your timeslip? Could you upload of a pic, if so?

[JerryBMW]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Thank you! will dig into this more later. I just updated the full e85 thread because i am trying to compile data/examples of people running full E85 on stock turbo stock LPFP.

No problem
I have uploaded my final 2 revisions as well on Datazap.
should be public

Has more boost than the 11sec revision, so should be quicker but i havent been able to test it out at the strip because of the shutdown.

[JerryBMW]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Do you possibly have the log when you ran the 12.7 run... that's a major improvement... starting to look the $3000 investment is worth it if I go Fx150 MHD tune...

I dont have a log for that one, but it was MHD ots stage 2+ E20/30 not a custom tune

I do not remember going to the drag strip on the custom E30 on stock hpfp. but I estimate it would have done a 12.5. It was noticeably quicker than the ots tune.

[JerryBMW]

Originally Posted by 5w20

By any chance do you still have your timeslip? Could you upload of a pic, if so?

[5w20]

Originally Posted by JerryBMW

Attachment 2420031

Nice! History shows that the DA was ~1800ft at that hour. Definitely some room for improvement with a lower DA. What’s your IG?

[JerryBMW]

Originally Posted by 5w20

Nice! History shows that the DA was ~1800ft at that hour. Definitely some room for improvement with a lower DA. What’s your IG?

Thanks. IG @jerryjuarez96

[T_H_O_M_A_S]

Originally Posted by johnung

FYI- below is one of several engineering differences that make the B58TU pump ultimately incompatible with the N55 engine.

The piston diameter of the HDP6 (10mm) is larger than that of the HDP5 (9mm). Due to the higher hydr. Force and the higher force of the piston spring creates a higher load on the drive elements -> higher load on the drive shaft and the roller tappet, i.e. reduced lifespan.

same goes for B58 with hdp5evo or hdp6 . camshafts on both models dont have bigger or larger bearings . check the drawings for it .
ive use the Hdp6 aftersome adaptations , flange connector and intake , without any problem on my previous M135i . no extra programming no pressure surges . the quantity valve is either full or partially opened . when its fully opened and the engine wants more rail pressure will drop . everything else it will regulate accordingly .
S58 will use 2 HDP6 pumps on 1 camshaft

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Thank you! will dig into this more later. I just updated the full e85 thread because i am trying to compile data/examples of people running full E85 on stock turbo stock LPFP.

we should compile a list of logs and who's got what and what 1/4 etc

curious where I stand time wise.

[designatedposter]

all those who have fitted the b58tu hpfp on n55, please let us know how it's been running!

the price of these new have dropped dramatically to around $400 USD, making it worthwhile to DIY over buying the several plug-n-play solutions out there (dorch, spool, nostrum, xdi, etc..)

and regarding the concern of damaging the cam on the vacuum pump... well.. dorch is about to sell a modified vacuum pump for n55 for more flow.. so yet another reason to gamble and upgrade the vacuum pump if/as needed!

what i've gathered as needed to do the hpd6 (b58tu) hpfp is modifcation to the base plate, bending the outlet fuel line a couple mm, and rotating the connector to clear the intake manifold. do i have it right? also if you have an early generation ewg car, then you need to get the new connector for hpfp too

[johnung]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

all those who have fitted the b58tu hpfp on n55, please let us know how it's been running!

the price of these new have dropped dramatically to around $400 USD, making it worthwhile to DIY over buying the several plug-n-play solutions out there (dorch, spool, nostrum, xdi, etc..)

and regarding the concern of damaging the cam on the vacuum pump... well.. dorch is about to sell a modified vacuum pump for n55 for more flow.. so yet another reason to gamble and upgrade the vacuum pump if/as needed!

what i've gathered as needed to do the hpd6 (b58tu) hpfp is modifcation to the base plate, bending the outlet fuel line a couple mm, and rotating the connector to clear the intake manifold. do i have it right? also if you have an early generation ewg car, then you need to get the new connector for hpfp too

I've provided information on this subject before. I've talked to engineers who design fuel pumps for a living who have intimate knowledge of the N55 engine, the N55 fuel pump and the B58 fuel pump. They said it might work initially because it close enough to spec, but it's also out of spec enough that it's a risk to the N55 engine. So it's basically a ticking time bomb. One engineer actually said to me that it would be fun to hook it up and try it, but then he warned- only do it if you can afford to replace your engine.

For those who say that they heard this guy or that guy say that they did it and it's running fine, remember that they mean that it's running fine so far. Guys who screw up and ruin their engines rarely advertise that they did something really stupid.

Just passing this information along. Hope it helps someone to avoid a ruined engine.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by johnung

I've provided information on this subject before. I've talked to engineers who design fuel pumps for a living who have intimate knowledge of the N55 engine, the N55 fuel pump and the B58 fuel pump. They said it might work initially because it close enough to spec, but it's also out of spec enough that it's a risk to the N55 engine. So it's basically a ticking time bomb. One engineer actually said to me that it would be fun to hook it up and try it, but then he warned- only do it if you can afford to replace your engine.

For those who say that they heard this guy or that guy say that they did it and it's running fine, remember that they mean that it's running fine so far. Guys who screw up and ruin their engines rarely advertise that they did something really stupid.

Just passing this information along. Hope it helps someone to avoid a ruined engine.

i don't see how the hpd6 (b58tu) pump can damage the engine any more than any of the other aftermarket hpfp. they all have higher volumetric capacity over the stock hpfp by increasing size of the piston in the hpfp. they all impose increased force on the cam that drives them.

if the concern instead is on the potential misalignment between the hpd6 spring and the stock n55 cam following tappet.. then any additional wear would manifest in the tappet, or, the cylinder wall of which the tappet is traveling in the vacuum pump. both of these are replaceable and i would not categorize as severe as engine damage.

https://dorchengineering.com/product...-hpfp-upgrade/

[johnung]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i don't see how the hpd6 (b58tu) pump can damage the engine any more than any of the other aftermarket hpfp. they all have higher volumetric capacity over the stock hpfp by increasing size of the piston in the hpfp. they all impose increased force on the cam that drives them.

if the concern instead is on the potential misalignment between the hpd6 spring and the stock n55 cam following tappet.. then any additional wear would manifest in the tappet, or, the cylinder wall of which the tappet is traveling in the vacuum pump. both of these are replaceable and i would not categorize as severe as engine damage.

https://dorchengineering.com/product...-hpfp-upgrade/

You can obviously believe what you wish and choose any course of action that you wish with your own car and your own engine. I posted to inform the community. IMO the engineers who I spoke with are beyond reproach in their knowledge on this subject.

At the time I was involved in a development project that would have manufactured a properly modified base plate for the B58TU to fit the N55 mounting holes to precisely position the B58TU pump on the N55 engine, not the rig job side notching of the stock plate that guys do in their garages now. But the project was scrapped immediately after my conversations with the fuel pump design engineers who knew the B58TU pump and the N55 engine extremely well. The risk and liability of engine damage was too great.

Hope this helps someone!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i don't see how the hpd6 (b58tu) pump can damage the engine any more than any of the other aftermarket hpfp. they all have higher volumetric capacity over the stock hpfp by increasing size of the piston in the hpfp. they all impose increased force on the cam that drives them.

if the concern instead is on the potential misalignment between the hpd6 spring and the stock n55 cam following tappet.. then any additional wear would manifest in the tappet, or, the cylinder wall of which the tappet is traveling in the vacuum pump. both of these are replaceable and i would not categorize as severe as engine damage.

https://dorchengineering.com/product...-hpfp-upgrade/

Well if there is any accelerated wear is the wear material not going to make it into the engine? I have heard similar things that Johnung is saying. I would love a solution that doesnt require a tune (it's the only solution for us in CA), but i would not install this pump without 100% confirmation it does not pose such a risk.

Also, the lift kit does not work with any N55 or B58 pump unfortunately. I would have loved to be able to just install that kit on the N55 pump and run it without any tune.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Well if there is any accelerated wear is the wear material not going to make it into the engine? I have heard similar things that Johnung is saying. I would love a solution that doesnt require a tune (it's the only solution for us in CA), but i would not install this pump without 100% confirmation it does not pose such a risk.

Also, the lift kit does not work with any N55 or B58 pump unfortunately. I would have loved to be able to just install that kit on the N55 pump and run it without any tune.

Yes I've heard of this potential danger on this forum as well as on fb groups. No data or explanation of where this danger is and I'm open to it. Just continued repetition akin to the solution to every misfire is replacing spark plugs 2 steps colder and gapping to 0.18 inch. And yes, I purposely repeated 0.18, because who cares about a factor of 10 when we're just parroting right.

Accelerated wear.. I accepted that as soon as I loaded aftermarket software (bm3) that increases boost 2x. I've accelerated preventive maintenance such as oil changes to mitigate damage..

[5w20]

Seen this over in the 2 series section.


https://precisionraceworks.com/colle...sure-fuel-pump

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 5w20

Seen this over in the 2 series section.


https://precisionraceworks.com/colle...sure-fuel-pump

I just look through this and it looks like (based on install instructions) you need a tune to run it.