[Livfast335]

Hi guys,

I spent like 10 hour the other weekend detailing my car. (view mod thread for pics)

I clayed the whole car, polished using a Menzerna PF 2500 and finished with a Menzerna SF 4500. I then finished with a nice Menzerna Power Lock Sealant.

I'm VERY happy with the results, however, I'm a big of a perfectionist, and under specific lighting, there are some scratches that I cannot remove.

I tried using Menzerna SI 1500, which is more aggressive, with a more aggressive pad, and still the same.

Should I use my Dr Colorchip to fill in the scratches or just go MORE aggressive on the compound and pad?

[Busa1]

You could try Menzerna Fg400 and maybe try a Meguiar's microfiber pad. The scratches might just be too deep for a compound and/or polish to remove. You don't want to remove too much of the clearcoat. Try a test spot first and if that doesnt work, I would just leave it.

[emapway]

Do some additional pass with medium pressure and faster speed.

[Livfast335]

Okay Ill try again with the Si 1500, I just did my hood but I'll do my whole car.
Do I need to go with the SF 4500 and put sealant all over again or just put sealant over?

[squidlyboy]

I discovered RIDs the hard way as well... After spending half a day doing a 2-step cutting/polishing detail last Thanksgiving weekend, all the RIDs that were hidden by the swirls and ligter scratches suddenly stuck out like a sore thumb when the swirls and smaller scratches disappeared.

I didn't use Mazerna products, but Meguiars 105 cutting / 205 polishing. They say M105 is one the most abrasive compounds available for cutting. After using that along with an LC Yellow pad (also one of the hardest for cutting) and still seeing the RIDs, i knew then i really had nowhere to go as far as further cutting went.

I watched a Junkman video on wet-sanding (he did it on a Lambo Murceilago) to remove two deeper scratches (and it came out perfect btw), but i don't think i have the nerve to try it yet. BMW paint is hard, but i heard its only ~120-150 microns thick for all coats combined, and that each time you do a cutting/polish you take off anywhere from 2-4 microns. I'm not sure what wet-standing takes off, but i'm guessing way more than 2-4 microns.

At this point, i plan on continuing to do a 2-step cutting/polishing detail every 6 months and hopefully, gradually, the RIDs will go away after enough 2-steps. And hopefully, no addition RIDs get introduced in the meantime.

I bought a gas-powered 2800 PSI pressure washer to blast away most of the attached dirt on the car as a pre-wash every time i wash the car, so there is way less potential for trapping random dirt between the car paint and my wash mitt when i go wash the car - reduces chances for more RIDs. I use it in conjunction with a MTM Foam Lance canon to create a mountain of foam over the car to loosen the dirt before blasting it off with the pressure washer.

Good luck bro - those scratches are so annoying and disheartening when you work so hard in trying to get your car in mint condition.

[Detailed Image]

This is a common topic among detailing enthusiasts.... that is "What level of correction is good enough?".


The real issue here is clear coat preservation. When you are correcting your paint, you are removing a thin layer of clear coat in order to level defects and produce a flatter surface which translates to more gloss and shine. You never want to remove more clear coat than you need to because your paint is extremely thin (often less thick than one sheet of computer paper!).

Swirls and other types of overall surface create a lack luster/dull look because the millions of tiny defects refract light instead of reflecting it. Removing these swirls will create a dramatically different appearance on any vehicle, in any paint color.





Random Isolated Deeper Scratches (RIDS) are heavier defects that may be found here and there. These defects are often the results of some sort of small impact or direct scratch rather than simply washing/drying induced swirling/marring. These types of defects are also much deeper than common swirls, and therefore require heavier correction to remove (and sometimes sanding as you mentioned). RIDS are often difficult to see in normal light, and certainly do not detract from the overall apperance and gloss of the car like swirls do, therefore you must ask yourself if it is worth the extra time, effort, and clear coat to chase these defects. It is my personal opinion that daily driven vehicles will always have some RIDS, and striving for a completely perfect finish is a fruitless task as the chances of future defects occurring are very high. I believe clear coat preservation is much more important in these cases.



squidlyboy - performing a 2 step correction every 6 months is not a good idea. In fact, I'd recommend only using a light polish (one step correction) on your vehicle once a year at most. If you are noticing enough swirls/defects to require multiple 2 step corrections each year, you need to analyze your maintenance routine. You may find the need for a light polish every year to reduce light swirls/marring but with proper washing and drying technique, there should be no need to heavier correction at all. ever.

If you simply need to correct a small RIDS, spot correct that scratch with a 3" pad.


I have an article pending publication on this very topic... I will post a link when it is published.


Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

[squidlyboy]

Thanks Zach - appreciate the info from a professional. I'm glad to hear that every 6 months is too much :-D because i was not looking forward to doing it again so soon. I don't know if its my laziness or that i just got too many other projects going on, but it looks like that 6-month schedule is stretching out to be once a year anyways

I don't have any problems with swirls/light defects as the 2-step has made them pretty much all go away. Its the RIDs that kills me. And by the way, i just got the car last August thereabouts, and i really baby the car, so I'm guessing those RIDs were there (but hidden under the swirls) when i got the car.

I did my first (and only) 2-step in November, and other than the pre-pressure wash of the car, use the standard two bucket method, and wash the car will multiple chenille mitts (top vs bottom) to reduce chances of any additional scratching/marring. I'm not too concerned about swirls as they come off pretty easily with M105/M205.

I am highly anticipating your upcoming article on RIDs. I don't know if there has been a lot written about that article. Other than the junkman video, i have not viewed much else.

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

Thanks Zach - appreciate the info from a professional. I'm glad to hear that every 6 months is too much :-D because i was not looking forward to doing it again so soon. I don't know if its my laziness or that i just got too many other projects going on, but it looks like that 6-month schedule is stretching out to be once a year anyways

I don't have any problems with swirls/light defects as the 2-step has made them pretty much all go away. Its the RIDs that kills me. And by the way, i just got the car last August thereabouts, and i really baby the car, so I'm guessing those RIDs were there (but hidden under the swirls) when i got the car.

I did my first (and only) 2-step in November, and other than the pre-pressure wash of the car, use the standard two bucket method, and wash the car will multiple chenille mitts (top vs bottom) to reduce chances of any additional scratching/marring. I'm not too concerned about swirls as they come off pretty easily with M105/M205.

I am highly anticipating your upcoming article on RIDs. I don't know if there has been a lot written about that article. Other than the junkman video, i have not viewed much else.

Keep in mind there is no benefit to doing a 2 step correction yearly if your paint does not need it. If you have very few swirls after 12 months (which should be the case with proper maintenance), then perhaps a one step correction, or even waiting even longer is more appropriate. If you plan on owning the vehicle for a long time, clear coat preservation should be a high priority for you. This is why I don't recommend chasing RIDS as they are very difficult to see in normal lighting conditions and don't really detract from the overall appearance of the vehicle.


Unless you have a paint thickness gauge at your disposal, there is no way to know how much clear coat you have to work with, so "better safe than sorry" is a saying that comes to mind.



You can make a dramatic difference without being overly invasive, and even though RIDS are noticeable in these harsh inspection lights, they are not something that will ever take away from the overall glossy finish like the massive amounts of swirls.











You've just got to weigh the pros and cons of having "perfect paint" or "nearly perfect paint".



Hope that helps

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

[squidlyboy]

Thanks Zach - i can live with RIDs (or maybe more accurately, I've come to accept that they are always gonna be there). I just want to be free of swirls and stuff that can be easily removed. Unfortunately, what I've found is that BMW paint is so hard, i almost have to use M105 to get rid of them. Using M205 by itself will still leave some traces. Maybe i'm doing it wrong?

Btw.. is there an inexpensive paint thickness gauge on the market for the weekend warrior detailing enthusiast that won't break the bank? I've heard they are pretty pricey. I'd like to see how fast/slow my paint is eroding away over time to get a better gauge on how often i should spend polishing.

Its not everyday that we get professionals chiming in here, but on top of that you are someone I've been following on DI for awhile. Love your informative and super helpful blogs! You rock bro!

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

Thanks Zach - i can live with RIDs (or maybe more accurately, I've come to accept that they are always gonna be there). I just want to be free of swirls and stuff that can be easily removed. Unfortunately, what I've found is that BMW paint is so hard, i almost have to use M105 to get rid of them. Using M205 by itself will still leave some traces. Maybe i'm doing it wrong?

Btw.. is there an inexpensive paint thickness gauge on the market for the weekend warrior detailing enthusiast that won't break the bank? I've heard they are pretty pricey. I'd like to see how fast/slow my paint is eroding away over time to get a better gauge on how often i should spend polishing.

Its not everyday that we get professionals chiming in here, but on top of that you are someone I've been following on DI for awhile. Love your informative and super helpful blogs! You rock bro!

Thank you for the kind words! I am going to be doing my best to provide as much as personal service to the VERY large BMW forum community as I can through Detailed Image, so please feel free to reach out if you ever need anything!

Alpine White is on the hard side, so with that in mind, M105 is not "as aggressive" in this application relative to using it on softer paint. I have had good results on Alpine White with M105, as well as medium polishes like Menznera PF2500 (seen in my video below), and Optimum Hyper Polish... even M205 on a more aggressive pad can produce fantastic results.

Keep in mind - you can alter the performance of any product by simply changing pads or your technique. There is no rule that dictates a cutting pad must be used with a cutting compound, or vice versa. Experiment and find what works best for you in the most efficient manner. I discuss this in the following article.

Paint Correction: Pairing Products and Pads by Zach McGovern



As far as inexpensive paint thickness gauges, there are some chinese knockoffs of more expensive gauges that are out there, however I do not have much experience with them. In general, as long as you are only polishing when needed, and are not doing major correction every year, your paint should be just fine for a long time... I would hesitate to ever do any aggressive sanding or anything like that though.

Let me know if you've got any other questions.

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com