[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ctt300

Here is a Stg 2 MultiMap log with E55. Used LiveAdjust to override ethanol sensor and set 55% ethanol level.

..seems to run leaner than the regular Stg 2 93 Octane map...at least on the E55 fuel I'm running on this log. Sorry it is a long log with many pulls.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...729b2a0badc5cc

The Stg 2+ Multimap log on E55 is still several orders more powerful though than the Stg 2 multimap:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...0b4342ae6f8b0d

These links don't work. It looks like you copied them from another post and they are truncated with "..."

[ctt300]

Fixed, please see the original post.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ctt300

Edit: Fixed log links.

Here is a Stg 2 MultiMap log with E55. Used LiveAdjust to override ethanol sensor and set 55% ethanol level.

..seems to run leaner than the regular Stg 2 93 Octane map...at least on the E55 fuel I'm running on this log. Sorry it is a long log with many pulls.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...729b2a0badc5cc **Sent this log to PTF/BM3 to see about why it looks a bit lean on AFR.

The Stg 2+ Multimap log on E55 is still several orders more powerful though than the Stg 2 multimap:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...0b4342ae6f8b0d

I would expect the map with E55 to run leaner than a pump gas maps as ethanol maps typically do. At the same time your fuel trims are also still a bit positive. The logs too messy for me to really dig into anything else.

[ctt300]

Thanks thejeremyman9, that makes sense and I was thinking that when I was logging this. At any rate, I sent this off to PTF for review to be sure.

[designatedposter]

you sure the flex fuel feature is working? your timing for both logs does not look any more aggressive than the 'base' map.

for the stage 2 multimap, which octane map you use? for example, at 5000rpm, you are at 6.5 timing, which seems pretty standard for the pump fuel maps. does not seem to target more for the e55 fuel.

for stage 2+ multimap.. what happens if you use the 'race gas' map?

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

you sure the flex fuel feature is working? your timing for both logs does not look any more aggressive than the 'base' map.

for the stage 2 multimap, which octane map you use? for example, at 5000rpm, you are at 6.5 timing, which seems pretty standard for the pump fuel maps. does not seem to target more for the e55 fuel.

for stage 2+ multimap.. what happens if you use the 'race gas' map?

I see what you are saying about the timing on the Stage 2 multimap and I guess that is how it is supposed to be, but will confirm in the open ticket I have with PTF.

When I check ethanol percentage by holding the cruise control button down, it shows the tach to be at the 5500 position, representing 55%, so it appears to be working. I will test and see if I set it at 30% if timing reduces.

For the Stage 2+ MultiMap, I have tried the Stg 2+ Race Gas map and here is a log. It feels less powerful than the Stg 2+ E30 map with less low end torque, but logs about the same. I'm going to do some longer-term testing on this difference though and give it more adaptation time.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...90c62bdedec05c

[designatedposter]

here's one of my recent log of stage 2+ race gas. no messing with ethanol or live adjust. just 93 octane and wmi. stock hpfp..

timing and boost targets seem to be identical with your e50 adjustment.
your STFT is even greater than mine (i spray 50/50 at about 8gph), makes me think the scaling for e is not dialed in, or perhaps is part of tune strategy..?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60aa...0b43130b5bc103

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ctt300

I see what you are saying about the timing on the Stage 2 multimap and I guess that is how it is supposed to be, but will confirm in the open ticket I have with PTF.

When I check ethanol percentage by holding the cruise control button down, it shows the tach to be at the 5500 position, representing 55%, so it appears to be working. I will test and see if I set it at 30% if timing reduces.

For the Stage 2+ MultiMap, I have tried the Stg 2+ Race Gas map and here is a log. It feels less powerful than the Stg 2+ E30 map with less low end torque, but logs about the same. I'm going to do some longer-term testing on this difference though and give it more adaptation time.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ad...90c62bdedec05c

When you did this log did you set your E% to 55% in the liveadjust? It doesn't make sense to me why your fuel trims are -20 to -30%. That means the tune is spraying way more fuel than is actually needed, and running higher ethanol usually means the opposite.

You also have a knock in the upper RPM at WOT in the latter part of the log.

Originally Posted by designatedposter

here's one of my recent log of stage 2+ race gas. no messing with ethanol or live adjust. just 93 octane and wmi. stock hpfp..

timing and boost targets seem to be identical with your e50 adjustment.
your STFT is even greater than mine (i spray 50/50 at about 8gph), makes me think the scaling for e is not dialed in, or perhaps is part of tune strategy..?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60aa...0b43130b5bc103

Yeah his STFTs dont make sense to me. It also seems like the multimap is not increasing timing for extra ethanol, as evidenced by the pump gas map with 55% ethanol set.

[MTWO]

Multimap adjusts timing boost and fuel but to see the full picture in this log you need to log way more stuff not just this basic stuff. Go into the About screen and click on Reset Settings and relog. You’ll get tons more logging channels. That way we can see blend factor values. I just read through the user guide release note stuff on this its awesome how much info there is available now when logging on this Custom ROM.

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

When you did this log did you set your E% to 55% in the liveadjust? It doesn't make sense to me why your fuel trims are -20 to -30%. That means the tune is spraying way more fuel than is actually needed, and running higher ethanol usually means the opposite.

You also have a knock in the upper RPM at WOT in the latter part of the log.

***Yes, manually set E% to 55%. The knock was most likely due to the tune still adjusting as just had a few pulls on it to adapt and most likely needed more adaptation time.

Yeah his STFTs dont make sense to me. It also seems like the multimap is not increasing timing for extra ethanol, as evidenced by the pump gas map with 55% ethanol set.

***Exactly, makes no sense to me either.

***I've reset my logging parameters, so I'll get all the new channels that pertain to the new MultiMaps and re-log.

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by MTWO

Multimap adjusts timing boost and fuel but to see the full picture in this log you need to log way more stuff not just this basic stuff. Go into the About screen and click on Reset Settings and relog. You’ll get tons more logging channels. That way we can see blend factor values. I just read through the user guide release note stuff on this its awesome how much info there is available now when logging on this Custom ROM.

Thanks, I've reset my logging parameters, so I'll get all the new channels that pertain to the new MultiMaps and re-log.

[ctt300]

New Logs with new Flex Fuel and other parameters..and short too! Lol

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b298c04508d

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...0b4341fb95351f

MultiMap Stage 2+ Race gas E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b2a0badce89

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b2a0badce8c

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by ctt300

New Logs with new Flex Fuel and other parameters..and short too! Lol

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b298c04508d

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...0b4341fb95351f

MultiMap Stage 2+ Race gas E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b2a0badce89

MultiMap Stage 2+ E30 E55

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60af...729b2a0badce8c

Thanks for sharing. I notice that the race gas map has stft =1 for both your pulls in the log, which essentially makes you run really rich as evidenced by the afr. Luckily your upgraded hpfp can keep up. Note that your e30 map logs has a reactive stft of as low as 0.70 which indicates needing to pulling back 30% fuel.

With your permission I'd like to send these logs to ptf. I have same stft=1 issue and they've just told me something is amiss on my car. Your direct comparison of the race gas vs e30 map illustrates there's something in the race gas tune that is off.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

Thanks for sharing. I notice that the race gas map has stft =1 for both your pulls in the log, which essentially makes you run really rich as evidenced by the afr. Luckily your upgraded hpfp can keep up. Note that your e30 map logs has a reactive stft of as low as 0.70 which indicates needing to pulling back 30% fuel.

With your permission I'd like to send these logs to ptf. I have same stft=1 issue and they've just told me something is amiss on my car. Your direct comparison of the race gas vs e30 map illustrates there's something in the race gas tune that is off.

I would say there's something in both tunes that is off in terms of fueling. It doesn't make sense for the E30 map with ethanol set to 55% to be correcting -30% fuel. It also doesnt make sense for the race gas map to be "stuck" at 1 STFT almost the entire time.

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

Thanks for sharing. I notice that the race gas map has stft =1 for both your pulls in the log, which essentially makes you run really rich as evidenced by the afr. Luckily your upgraded hpfp can keep up. Note that your e30 map logs has a reactive stft of as low as 0.70 which indicates needing to pulling back 30% fuel.

With your permission I'd like to send these logs to ptf. I have same stft=1 issue and they've just told me something is amiss on my car. Your direct comparison of the race gas vs e30 map illustrates there's something in the race gas tune that is off.

No prob, go ahead and send them. Hope they fix this or have a good explanation..

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I would say there's something in both tunes that is off in terms of fueling. It doesn't make sense for the E30 map with ethanol set to 55% to be correcting -30% fuel. It also doesnt make sense for the race gas map to be "stuck" at 1 STFT almost the entire time.

I agree and will send them to PTF.

[MTWO]

STFT being rich makes sense if people play with live adjust slider and just run race gas or pump gas. It seems to be you guys are doing random stuff with the flex fuel slider when you should be wiring up a flex fuel sensor. That slider in live adjust they clearly indicate is to be used in case a sensor dies as like a fail safe for it so you can go fix the sensor and get it running right.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MTWO

STFT being rich makes sense if people play with live adjust slider and just run race gas or pump gas. It seems to be you guys are doing random stuff with the flex fuel slider when you should be wiring up a flex fuel sensor. That slider in live adjust they clearly indicate is to be used in case a sensor dies as like a fail safe for it so you can go fix the sensor and get it running right.

That's not whats happening at all. The STFTs are the opposite of what they should be. He's not doing "random stuff" with the slider. He ran 55% ethanol and set the slider to 55%. Yet his fuel trims are subtracting 30% fuel as if he was running FAR less ethanol than the tune expected. The race gas map is a separate issue because STFTs dont seem to be working at all.

[MTWO]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

That's not whats happening at all. The STFTs are the opposite of what they should be. He's not doing "random stuff" with the slider. He ran 55% ethanol and set the slider to 55%. Yet his fuel trims are subtracting 30% fuel as if he was running FAR less ethanol than the tune expected. The race gas map is a separate issue because STFTs dont seem to be working at all.

Yes it is. He didn’t run 55% ethanol or trims would’ve been closer to 1. He even ran this on the race gas map and trims at 1 means pull was probably done very shortly after starting the car maybe just after reflashing. Easy enough to wire in a sensor and run this properly without assumptions. Too many variables to say anything for sure when someone uses a slider instead of how this is supposed to be used with an actual sensor.

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by MTWO

Yes it is. He didn’t run 55% ethanol or trims would’ve been closer to 1. He even ran this on the race gas map and trims at 1 means pull was probably done very shortly after starting the car maybe just after reflashing. Easy enough to wire in a sensor and run this properly without assumptions. Too many variables to say anything for sure when someone uses a slider instead of how this is supposed to be used with an actual sensor.

My friend, you are so wrong here. It's the map. Doesn't do this on non-multimap stg2+ E30 tune. I just tested the stg 2 multimaps and they scale stfts just fine right on up 1.05+ with E55. Been running this map for a week before these logs too. Ethanol was right at 55% and was tested. PTF states that the liveadjust ethanol sensor override can be used anytime and is especially great for races as no adaptation time needed. It will reset when ignition is turned off. Of course you have to know what you are doing and not just set a percentage randomly. I'm speaking from experience and you are just making many assumptions here. Been running E mixes for about 4 years now on this car and have had turbo cars and been tuning since the early 90's, so I know a thing or two.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MTWO

Yes it is. He didn’t run 55% ethanol or trims would’ve been closer to 1. He even ran this on the race gas map and trims at 1 means pull was probably done very shortly after starting the car maybe just after reflashing. Easy enough to wire in a sensor and run this properly without assumptions. Too many variables to say anything for sure when someone uses a slider instead of how this is supposed to be used with an actual sensor.

Yeah I'm not sure why you are telling other people what they did and didnt do with their fuel and tune/ethanol selection lol? As ctt explained, there are no variables that weren't controlled for, the testing was done methodically.

[Janluis]

I have an M235 2016 Euro spec. Steering wheel does not have resume button. Only Limit button and toggle. All other buttons are blanks. How do I access the map switching features?