[RPM90]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I make decent money, and I only financed the minimum at BMW due the $1000 rebate, as I could have paid the car cash
The problem is, the car is not worth that much, does not have the same driving experience as my E90 335i, and it depreciates like nothing else.

I'm just sad with BMW

The F30 must certainly be "worth that much" considering the big increase in 3 series sales when the F30 came to market. It's clear that the F30 has broader appeal in the market.

As for the driving experience, some areas are better, some not when comparing E90 to F30.
Back when the E90 first came to market the E46 crowd hated it, claiming it was getting "too big" and didn't offer the same driving experience.
BMW had greater success with the E90 after the face lift, which greatly improved it's looks. The interior remained blah.

As for depreciation, all 3 series hold and held great resale value, that's the major reason for why over 50% of 3 series sold are leases.
That's for the US market.
Compared to the majority of automobile offerings in the US, the 3 series has much lower depreciation, and that's holding true for the F30.
And, it looks like the F30 may have even less depreciation compared to previous versions due to it's high sales numbers.
When a new car has a high sales numbers the used values go up as well.

BTW, that's great that you 'could have' paid cash for your new BMW.
But then, who cares really. It's not relevant to this discussion in the least.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

That was mainly my point, I was being facetious.

Point is, performance wise, aside from a straight line, the gap between the higher powered and lowered powered engine of the 3 series is smaller than ever.

I mean, if that extra $100-200 monthly payment is worth the sound, then go for it. 335 sounds nothing like the M3, so it's all relative.

True, the performance gap is smaller than ever.
But the N55 isn't just about straight line acceleration, which is great btw.
It's about acceleration in general. Its useful in certain situations like passing, or getting out of the way. It's also about performance such as straight acceleration, or powering out of a turn. And, some of us really do prefer the idle sound, WFO accel sound, and better smoothness of the inline 6.
BMW's inline cylinder is legendary for a number of reasons. Great sport car exhaust sound is not one of them though, imo.

As with many things, there is bad with the good.
The 335i's weight is not as balanced as it is in the 328i, and that translates to the 328i having crisper transitional handling, and quicker turn in.
It's not just that the 335i is heavier, because power to weight is still better in the 335i, it's the weight distribution, and BMW didn't tune the suspension as well for that weight distribution.
The overall weight difference between equally optioned 328i and 335i is not that much, around 110-115lbs. But, that extra weight is mostly at the front in the 335i, where it has the most impact.

The 335i is still no slouch when it comes to handling. It's still a
BMW 3 series. However, compared to the 328i the 328i has a bit better handling.
So where the 335i gives greater power and better acceleration performance, the 328i gives crisper, lighter, and better handling.
Either version has it's own personality, and each driver should test drive them both in order to decide what fits their wants and needs.
Neither is a wrong choice....well, except for not choosing sport or Msport.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

t depreciates like nothing else.

I'm just sad with BMW

agreed, im noticing this more and more these days. BMWs do not hold their value as they once did.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by SPACEMANRICK

Yes it is all relative and a compromise........ gas mileage, power, sound, weight etc. The M3 sounds ferocious at full throttle but many M3 drivers are averaging 16 to 17 litres per 100 km, I am now averaging about 10.5 litres per 100 km in my 335 xdrive and I assume many 328 drivers are averaging about 8 to 9 litres per 100 km.

If you're comparing 335xi to 328i RWD, then that may be true.
But we have to have more data to see real world MPG differences.

The RWD versions haven't been showing a big difference.
MPG does favor the 328i but only slightly.
Remember, comparing equally optioned cars the weight difference isn't that much, somewhere around 120lbs.

The MPG differences will be greater only when either car is driven hard using maximum power output.
The N55 will use more fuel as it will also produce more power when called upon by the drivers throttle foot.

Driven at a good bit less than maximum, which is how most drive on a daily basis, either engine will need to put out around the same hp/torque.
When doing that either engine will need and use close to the same amount of fuel. With that manner of driving the MPG difference will be more about the 328i's slightly lower weight, and potentially less friction loss as the N20 has 2 fewer cylinders.
The great equalizer here is that both cars use the same trans with the same gearing and same final driver, along with same diameter wheels/tires.

So if a 335i is driven hard and fast with the driver calling up near max power for for extended miles, and a 328i driver is doing the same, that's where the 335i's N55 will use more fuel.
But how often is the case except on the track.

I mentioned earlier that there is a potential that the 4cyl N20 may have lower frictional losses in the engine. I don't have any data or information that that is true or not true. Speculation is that there is less in the N20, but I doubt it's a lot, but even a bit less will give higher MPG over time and miles.
Lower frictional loss pay back higher dividends in better MPG especially on longer highway drives. In those conditions it takes less hp/torque to keep the vehicle at speed vs accelerating. Of course this would be for normal and nominal high speeds where it doesn't take a lot of power to keep the car moving at a stead rate.

At highway driving, the N20 should have an advantage if there is less friction loss. But that potential could be mitigated by the N20's added friction due to the balance shaft assembly. So it's an interesting question as to which engine has greater internal friction losses.
You have the N20 with 2 less cylinders, but it also has balance shaft assembly.
The N55 has 2 more cylinders, and total ring surface area is greater adding to it's friction level.

The F30 is great setup by which to see MPG differences attributed mostly to engine size and cylinder count.
The reasons being that equally equipped there is not a big difference in actual on road vehicle weight, with the 335i weighing only about 3.7% more.
And, with an AT they have the same identical trans, so gearing is taken out of the equation.
They even use the same wheel/tire size, and in some cases the same tires.
There is a stock tire pressure difference iirc, due to the weight balance difference.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

agreed, im noticing this more and more these days. BMWs do not hold their value as they once did.

Different markets though.

How many used F30's could there be in your market?
In the US the F30 has only been available since Feb. 2012, which is only about
1 year and 4 months.

Perhaps you're noticing the used prices of E90's coming down, and that could be attributed to other factors more likely.
The F30 replaced the E90, and for any manufacturer normally when a brand new model comes out the previous model's used value drops.

I doubt that anything negative about the F30 has had any impact on it's use value as used F30's are very likely not easily found in the used market right now. Also, the F30 has been selling very well, at least in the US market, and BMW's sales have had a big percentage increase.
I think it's too early to claim the F30 a failure, even though many of use fans and enthusiasts have our gripes and complaints about the F30, I know I have my share.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The F30 must certainly be "worth that much" considering the big increase in 3 series sales when the F30 came to market. It's clear that the F30 has broader appeal in the market.

Not quite true. While there was a decent increase in February of 2012, sales have only been slightly higher than that of the E90 in 2011. So far this year, sales are down for the F30 compared to 2012. Granted, there are many more things in play when concerning sales numbers than just the car its self.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Agree, but don't forget the lighter front end with an N20. Love the front/mid mounted crispy turn in!

I know, but many are a bit dismissive of the idea and claim it's something only felt on the track. I am one of the few people that feel it on the street, but don't feel the need to go into detail in EVERY N20 vs N55 thread. Not a week goes by on here where I am called a Fanboi when I have positive things to say about the 328 lol.

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

That is 100% my experience too UNTIL....I got an M Performance exhaust. Now, not only can I hear it, I actually LIKE the way it sounds because I surely didn't before!

Mine as well, except the catback I had on for development was a bit louder/deeper than the MP unit.

[ATX78703]

One thing to keep in mind is they will Prob have an MPPK ready for the 435i shortly after launch. We have no word on any kind of factory bump for the n20 at any point.

[KevRyd]

I have said this in other posts, and I will say it here again:

There is alot more than just sound difference between the N55 and the N20. If you look at it on paper like most reviewers do then yes, you will come up with that respone (.8 to 60). But don't kid yourself the N55 is a huge improvement over the N20, If the N20 makes a 4 feel like a 6, then the N55 makes a 6 feel like an 8. You need to drive the 2 engines to really get a feel for the difference. The other mis-nomer is that the N20 is a more efficient engin, I have had a 328i for almost a month and I can tell you it is no that big a gap to the 335i. If you drive the N20 very pedestrian you will see an advantage, if you push the engine even a little the advantage is gone. Some of that depends on Gas and other factors but under the same driving conditions I have saved about $5/week on gass driving the N20. The other advantage of the lighter front end is very slight but can be felt.

Drive them both, back to back to back to back. Note the differences and make the determination if the extra cost of the 335 is worth it based on your own observations.

Kevin

Originally Posted by dwalls90

That was mainly my point, I was being facetious.

Point is, performance wise, aside from a straight line, the gap between the higher powered and lowered powered engine of the 3 series is smaller than ever.

I mean, if that extra $100-200 monthly payment is worth the sound, then go for it. 335 sounds nothing like the M3, so it's all relative.

[KevRyd]

BMW is setting internal records for sales as noted by the April numbers according to BIMMERPOST. I think the popularity of the F30 is part of this swing but I think overall it is due to the total number of new vehicles being introduced accross product lines. In the defence of the E90's, cars tend to sell less near the end of their production runs as people hold off with new versions pending. I think that people waiting to see what the 4 would be like (on the fence) will now either get into 4's or opt for the 3's which will also increase sales.

Kevin

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Not quite true. While there was a decent increase in February of 2012, sales have only been slightly higher than that of the E90 in 2011. So far this year, sales are down for the F30 compared to 2012. Granted, there are many more things in play when concerning sales numbers than just the car its self.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

One thing to keep in mind is they will Prob have an MPPK ready for the 435i shortly after launch. We have no word on any kind of factory bump for the n20 at any point.

The N20 PPK for the F20 has been released and said the F30 is around the corner.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Different markets though.

How many used F30's could there be in your market?
In the US the F30 has only been available since Feb. 2012, which is only about
1 year and 4 months.

Perhaps you're noticing the used prices of E90's coming down, and that could be attributed to other factors more likely.
The F30 replaced the E90, and for any manufacturer normally when a brand new model comes out the previous model's used value drops.

I doubt that anything negative about the F30 has had any impact on it's use value as used F30's are very likely not easily found in the used market right now. Also, the F30 has been selling very well, at least in the US market, and BMW's sales have had a big percentage increase.
I think it's too early to claim the F30 a failure, even though many of use fans and enthusiasts have our gripes and complaints about the F30, I know I have my share.

im looking at the US market. And you actually make my point, there aren't a lot of used F30s around, yet the book values are pretty low already. My 328i with a $46K MSRP is worth @ $33k in less than a year. That is the most I've ever lost on a car in 1 year of depreciation and this is my 3rd BMW and 5th BMW product. I can only imagine what the depreciation will be at the end of the life cycle.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

im looking at the US market. And you actually make my point, there aren't a lot of used F30s around, yet the book values are pretty low already. My 328i with a $46K MSRP is worth @ $33k in less than a year. That is the most I've ever lost on a car in 1 year of depreciation and this is my 3rd BMW and 5th BMW product. I can only imagine what the depreciation will be at the end of the life cycle.

Depreciation levels off over time, the biggest hit is the first couple of years. If it remained consistent, it would mean your car would be in the negatives at certain point lol.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Depreciation levels off over time, the biggest hit is the first couple of years. If it remained consistent, it would mean your car would be in the negatives at certain point lol.

I know that, but I'm normally pretty savvy at buying new cars. I've had 10 new or like new cars in last 7 years, and this is the most depreciation I've seen in 1 year. Heck, I even did better with GM products (G8 & Enclave). That's sad for BMW.

[KevRyd]

Where are you getting this depreciated value from? 33K? How was the car spec'd/Optioned? Your in Germany, what factor are you using to convert?

Kevin

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I know that, but I'm normally pretty savvy at buying new cars. I've had 10 new or like new cars in last 7 years, and this is the most depreciation I've seen in 1 year. Heck, I even did better with GM products (G8 & Enclave). That's sad for BMW.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by KevRyd

Where are you getting this depreciated value from? 33K? How was the car spec'd/Optioned? Your in Germany, what factor are you using to convert?

Kevin

http://www.kbb.com/sell-it-myself/

[Pauleebe]

LOL @ KBB.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

Diesel cars bugs me even when I'm watching ...movies...

Have you sought medical advice for this issue? LOL

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Very simple.

Go drive a 328 and 335. Focus on the drivetrain, and not other equipment.

If you can live with the N20, great-save a bit of money and or option the 428 higher. If you are greatly turned off by the performance and or sound compared to the N55, then go with the 435.

+1

I have no idea what it is that ton of total strangers can say that'll be more informative to a prospective buyer than just driving the damn cars. For all intents and purposes, they are the same car but for engine and the price, and none of us can offer anything useful regarding the price's affect on an OP's buying decision.

[R12ax7]

I agonized over this myself for weeks (even change my order 3 times in the 2 days right after I placed it) and as others have said, you cant go wrong either way. The one difference in the 28 vs. 35 debate for the 4 series is that, for me anyway, with the 3 series the Msport package was a must. With the 4 series, I like the Sportline a lot better than the Sportline on the 3 series.

Two biggest takeways for me now that I have lived with the 35 again for 2 weeks: (1) while I love the thrust of the 35 every day, I dont think I would have looked back from a power standpoint if I had went with the 328 (especially with a tune), and (2) maybe its because my '08 335 was AT not 6MT, but the sound of the 35, even without a tune or exhaust, its just fantastic and reason enough that if i had to do it again I would chose the 35 every time - even if the two engines made the exact same power I would choose the 35 every time just for that sound!

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

The N20 PPK for the F20 has been released and said the F30 is around the corner.

from what i heard the only thing released was for the 125i. i would highly doubt that BMWUSA would release anything for the _28i models, as that would automatically encroach into the pecking order

keep in mind the 125i is the top-shelf f20, minus the m135i, so the tune makes sense there.

[Safety2213]

I paid 63% of the original sticker price for 2012 CPO 328i Sportsline.... lots of F30's are now going for the low $30's in the used market - and a few in the high $20's after only a year or two. With such a high % of cars being leased, the market gets saturated. The 328i is BMW's volume seller....if you look at the 135i vs 128i or e92 328i vs. 335i, the more powerful engines have been able to hold their value. If leasing... I am not sure it matters that much since you will plan to trade the car in after only a few years.

I believe in buying the biggest / strongest engine one can afford as I seldom ever wish for options however always can appreciate power..... and if you have power, you will use it!