[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by mafatbhai

You should be good. 0W30 means its good for 0 to 30 deg C weather.

5W30 means its good for 5 deg c to 30 deg C weather.

it all relates to viscosity of oil at that temp. ...

0W and 5W and 30 have absolutely nothing to do with temperature.
You're right about your comment regarding "viscosity", but only by accident.

[M4_GTS]

Originally Posted by mafatbhai

You should be good. 0W30 means its good for 0 to 30 deg C weather.

5W30 means its good for 5 deg c to 30 deg C weather.

it all relates to viscosity of oil at that temp. and all this FE or fuel efficiency means oil has to be less viscous (Ford drove that requirement).. Now since oil is less viscous, it flows better at 0 deg C. Hence they changed it to 0w30 to get some more brownie marketing points.

you shouldnt be giving any advice and you shouldnt be working on your own car...

[mafatbhai]

Originally Posted by M4_GTS

you shouldnt be giving any advice and you shouldnt be working on your own car...

Well you guys are the Google of God.. and Engineers consult you before they wipe their rear ends..

[mafatbhai]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

0W and 5W and 30 have absolutely nothing to do with temperature.
You're right about your comment regarding "viscosity", but only by accident.

Was trying to explain in layman's term. Its all about viscocity of oil at temps and its ability to provide lubricity (Shear capability).

[Chukker]

I should first mention that I'm 250+ miles from the nearest BMW dealership.

I bought a very clean (or detailed) '15 328D xdrive touring a couple of months ago. It's my second ride (first is a 2002 F350 Superduty shortbed) so I'm still very low on the learning curve but consider myself a diesel enthusiast. I wanted to do an oil change on the BMW and found this thread.

Should I put myself out of my misery now, or is there actually hope for me to do my own servicing? So far, I find that O'Reilly.com doesn't even show an air or oil filter for this car. Nobody locally knows what a Mann or Mahle filter looks like. LL12 or LL4 oil is a mystery to these people.

Any insight for a DIY guy would be appreciated. Amazon prime member, check. Walmart, Autozone, OReilly, check. And where the heck is the dipstick on the 328D engine, if there is, in fact, one?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Chukker

Any insight for a DIY guy would be appreciated. Amazon prime member, check. Walmart, Autozone, OReilly, check. And where the heck is the dipstick on the 328D engine, if there is, in fact, one?

Dipstick is on the left side, just ahead of the firewall.

You can usually find LL04 (and perhaps LL12) at regular stores. Try the NAPA store locally: they can order it at least. Jiffy Lube uses Shell so they actually have it. I've found Pentosin LL04 at O'Reilly's. Lots of people go to Walmart.

Best option is to order from fcpeuro.com

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by Chukker

Any insight for a DIY guy would be appreciated. Amazon prime member, check. Walmart, Autozone, OReilly, check. And where the heck is the dipstick on the 328D engine, if there is, in fact, one?

I will have an N47 DIY oil change video up soon. Covers both conventional drain and fill, and topside extraction method.

*EDIT
Video is up!

[andreigbs]

For those that prefer online retailers, one of my favorites is idparts.com and has everything you need for our N47 diesel engine maintenance items.

If you want Wal-mart availability type of oil that's still great quality and easy on the budget, you can't go wrong with the Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30 stuff.

Contrary to what you might've read, the 12FE spec is mainly geared towards fuel economy savings and only suitable for single turbo diesel engines. It's pretty safe to say it can be considered a "minimum standard" type oil.

For those outside of warranty periods especially, consider oils that carry the LL-04 spec as well as MB's 229.51 or 229.52 specs. Oils that meet those two are generally going to be excellent quality.

If all else fails, you could also use the full synth heavy duty diesel oils like M1 Turbo Diesel Truck or M1 Delvac ESP, or Rotella T6 and the like. As long as you're running a high-quality diesel-rated oil, your engine should be well protected for many thousands of miles.

[chowser51]

Aren’t we up to LL-14 now?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by mafatbhai

Was trying to explain in layman's term. Its all about viscocity of oil at temps and its ability to provide lubricity (Shear capability).

But your explanation of engine oil viscosity designations is fundamentally wrong.

The designations denote the oil viscosity at low (ambient to sub-zero) and high (100C) temperatures. 5W and 30 do not indicate the ambient air temperatures, in a similar way that we wouldn't say that a 255/35 tyre has a speed range of 35 to 255 mph.

SAW5W30 may be suitable for cold start ambient temperature of -25C, but different engine manufacturers will select/recommend oils based upon a wide range of factors including engineering tolerances.

Engine oil typically has a 'hot' working temperature of 100C and this is maintained by the engine cooling system, irrespective of the ambient temperature (as long as there's sufficient/suitable air for cooling).

As always, Wiki provides useful information :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

[andreigbs]

Originally Posted by chowser51

Aren’t we up to LL-14 now?

Depends who "we" refers to.

BMW Longlife-14+ (BMW LL-14+)
Special motor oil for the following gasoline engines only: N20, Bx8 from model year 2014. Not allowed for diesel engines.

BMW Longlife-17 FE (BMW LL-17 FE)
This specification requires a low SAPS, usually ACEA C5 compliant, 0W20 oil. Oils meeting this specification are usually recommended for the newest gasoline and diesel-powered BMWs. The base oil is typically from Group IV (polyalphaolefines).

Source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

I think I'll pass on the 0w20 stuff for my diesels.

[mafatbhai]

This is awesome. One quick question, when you used the oil extractor, were you able to suck more out by moving the tube?

[andreigbs]

I typically push the vacuum tube down thru the dipstick tube until I can hear it tap the bottom, then I pull up just a hair. The suction seems to work better that way. Then when you're not getting any more oil out, I gently push the tube down as far as I can and end up getting maybe a few more ounces out.

I also use the vacuum extractor inside the oil filter housing.

In general, the top-side method works great for my needs.

[tom_k]

I know that this is an ancient thread, BUT

BMW LL04 = ACEA C3
BMW LL12 = ACEA C2

only difference between C2 and C3 is viscosity under stress & high temp.
C3 provides higher viscosity under hight temp and high sheers
C2 provides lower viscosity under hight temp and high sheers

Difference is there and is measurable, and significant enough to justify a separate specification.
On newer petrol engines (2012 an up), bmw advices ACEA C2 to provide better fuel efficiency and hence better CO2 rating (and other emissions)
Up to 2018 BMW was advising ACEA C3 on diesel engines due to tighter tolerances and higher engine torques.

So if you have a vehicle "Owners Handbook" in section "Mobility" -> "Engine Oil" at the end it will tell you what ACEA specification to use IF bmw longlife is not present on the oil can.

Now, if your engine calls for ACEA C3 - you technically can still use ACEA C2 in it. The thing is that you will decrease your engine internals lifespan. with C3 you could do a million miles (as per design criteria) but with C2 you will do only 200k miles ... but the thing with engines is that I can bet you that engine oil is not only thing that is used out of spec ... if you tune your car, this decreases engine lifespan by certain factor. If you drive your car really hard, this decreases lifespan by certain factor ...

Only benefit you will get from C2 is improved fuel efficiency.

Bottom line is: engine reliability is a numbers game.
( How well it's designed * how well it's manufactured ) / (how badly you maintain it * how badly you drive it) = distance between issues.

Hope this helps

[Efficient_Dynamics]

Guys, Motul Specific LL-12 FE that I have been using. It's available on Ebay from partscontainer in a 0W30 and its super cheap. For all the Canadian guys, they ship to Canada and it's super cheap. I bought 5 liter jugs with customs, shipping and the cost of the 25 liters all in was $260 CDN. My Canadian dealer wanted $19 per liter or $14 per liter of LL-04 Get the LL-012 it is the correct oil. I don't use anything else.

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by Efficient_Dynamics

Guys, Motul Specific LL-12 FE that I have been using. It's available on Ebay from partscontainer in a 0W30 and its super cheap. For all the Canadian guys, they ship to Canada and it's super cheap. I bought 5 liter jugs with customs, shipping and the cost of the 25 liters all in was $260 CDN. My Canadian dealer wanted $19 per liter or $14 per liter of LL-04 Get the LL-012 it is the correct oil. I don't use anything else.

IMO TPT 0W30 LL12-FE is bad choice for the N47 engine (if you plan to keep it for while).

My F25 manual also refers to the LL12-FE.
I had scary UOA and whistling turbo (both cold and hot).

After switching to TPT 5W30 LL04 got better UOA results and no turbo noise.
No measurable impact on fuel economy.

If you live in a very cold climate and must use 0W rating consider Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX

[andreigbs]

If you live in a very cold climate and must use 0W rating consider Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX

Agree with this, however for 90% of owners that live below the Arctic circle I think the PP Euro L 5w30 is more than adequate. It's also much easier to find in stock on shelves.

PP Euro LX is a great oil, but unless you really need that extra low temp starting protection, I wouldn't spend more for it.

[eugene89us]

I continue to use LL12-FE with good results, as recommended from factory. Car is now almost 80K miles. Interestingly, noticed another design change for OEM BMW oil. Which usually means when design of writing and colors change, they had another change in iteration. Original Golden label had sweet, detergent smell to oil. Second iteration with large 0W-30 writing and Blue Label had sour smell to it. The newest iteration actually changed BMW part number from numeric (83212365951) to alfa-numeric (83215A2AFC3). Weird. So I looked at FCP Euro site, and this is what they said:

Note: BMW has discontinued 5W30 LL-04 TwinPower Turbo in favor of 0W30 LL-12FE. The 0W30 oil is back compatible to vehicles that used 5W30 from the factory. This new oil offers better protection across a wider array of operating temperatures and due to its lower cold viscosity will also help improve cold start oil pressure and flow better for added protection while still providing the same level of protection at operating temp. Compared to conventional engine oils, this BMW oil exhibits better viscosity properties, reduced friction and minimized propensity for evaporation.

Of course, in many ways marketing. But with their lifetime replacement, I see no need going for other oils. I know this is basic Shell oil that is rated to BMW standard, but with good Blackstone report and oil changes costing me a return shipping label from UPS (and maybe 1 quart of oil that I cannot possibly collect back from the filter element, etc. over multiple oil changes). That is not bad for German car maintenance. You cannot find oil change service cheaper than $25 to $35. I continue to recommend FCP Euro and fear the day they discontinue Lifetime replacement program.

[Morrob95]

If you're deleted, you can run whatever you want. I ran rotella t6 for 50k, swapped to Amazon full synthetic for 50k and lately been on liquid molly. The ll04 is to save the scr.

Edit: car is at 162K miles

[Figgs_1979]

Liquimoly 0w30

[Xava]

In my region everyone uses LL-04 5W30 (most of the time), and it's fine. For diesel I would stick with it

[winupurs]

Thank you for the step by step video for changing my oil, this very helpful.